Let's save level 20 twinking... Squeaky wheel gets the grease

[Footman]

Create bug reports in the official WoW forum here if you can:
https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/c/support/bug-report/17

2 main issues to make Blizz fix:
-enchanting and ilvl lockout
-veterans and trial accounts being put into level 29 twink bg's

The more bug reports they see the more likely they'll do something about it, so create new posts if you can.

If can't be bothered making new posts, could just add comments to existing posts.
Complain about f2p's / vets being put into 29 twink BG's, post in here:
https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/w...evel-29-twink-xp-locked-battlegrounds/1410474

Or to make them aware of the F'd up enchanting and ilvl scaling problem, meaning no enchants can be put on good gear past level 15 here:
https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/w...longer-working-on-most-leveling-items/1410472

I remember around 2 expansions ago we were put in xp off battlegrounds before temporarily, and it was fixed, so let's make them aware it's not normal and the need to fix it.
With those 2 things 20's might actually be good again...

 

[ZenwØw]

<3

 

[Magrain]

Doubt they'd probably do anything but, worth a shot.

 

[chelly]

It’s obviously not intended for a starter edition to wait over an hour to BG

only to head into a 29 premade

only to learn that the premade 29 used additional starter edition accounts in order to force the BG to pop in the first place

I’d personally give it until after DF releases as Im sure that’s the focus. But now that the queues are dead for real, perhaps blizz might take a look. Personally I think the time needs to be right for an organized forum post/ bug report push

 

[Blackberryy]

Create bug reports in the official WoW forum here if you can:
https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/c/support/bug-report/17

2 main issues to make Blizz fix:
-enchanting and ilvl lockout
-veterans and trial accounts being put into level 29 twink bg's

The more bug reports they see the more likely they'll do something about it, so create new posts if you can.

If can't be bothered making new posts, could just add comments to existing posts.
Complain about f2p's / vets being put into 29 twink BG's, post in here:
https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/w...evel-29-twink-xp-locked-battlegrounds/1410474

Or to make them aware of the F'd up enchanting and ilvl scaling problem, meaning no enchants can be put on good gear past level 15 here:
https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/w...longer-working-on-most-leveling-items/1410472

I remember around 2 expansions ago we were put in xp off battlegrounds before temporarily, and it was fixed, so let's make them aware it's not normal and the need to fix it.
With those 2 things 20's might actually be good again...

It’s obviously not intended for a starter edition to wait over an hour to BG

only to head into a 29 premade

only to learn that the premade 29 used additional starter edition accounts in order to force the BG to pop in the first place

I’d personally give it until after DF releases as Im sure that’s the focus. But now that the queues are dead for real, perhaps blizz might take a look. Personally I think the time needs to be right for an organized forum post/ bug report push

How isn’t it? No matter how you look at it, you are twinks and are now being treated as such.

 

[Conzil]

How isn’t it? No matter how you look at it, you are twinks and are now being treated as such.

I thought everyone agreed years ago that F2Ps are not twinks.

 

[Dragpz]

This is a great discussion, but I'm sure Blizzard has all the numbers they need to make the proper decisions. That being said, anecdotally, I want to say that most new players are not afraid of dropping $15, or even $50 for the new expansion for World of Warcraft, the main problem is most of these players are not staying subbed. The real money is retaining current subs *cough 12 month sub cough*. Blizz knows their game is dying, so the only the thing they can do is appease their super casual playerbase that logins in maybe once a week to farm a mount from 5 expansions ago and maybe if they have some time they can farm old transmogs or do an LFR or two. On the opposite spectrum, we also have the sweaty hardcore guilds that push worlds first, dropping all of their cash on WoW tokens to buy up all epic BoEs and crafting materials. Anything outside of these two extremes is largely ignored, and Twinks/F2Ps are caught right there, in between, and are thus ignored, outside of gamebreaking exploits.

But, rant aside, most new players eventually pay the $15 to sub, and dont stay on the starter edition

 

[chelly]

But, rant aside, most new players eventually pay the $15 to sub, and dont stay on the starter edition

which is exactly why blizz won’t ignore absolutely dead queues for these true starter edition players. I’m confident that continued forum posts and canceled starter edition accounts by ticket with mention of dead pvp queues (not even mentioning 29s) should be enough for blizz to take action and either: separate all f2p/vet 20s into their own queue, reintegrate f2p vet into xp enabled queue OR combine all queues like they did for wrath. I’m fine with any of them.

I respect the old 70s but the bracket cannot continue this way
[doublepost=1669244899,1669244705][/doublepost]Any resentment I have ever brought up on this topic has been for the vet rerollers who consistently premaded, cut corners and when the change happened promptly rerolled to 29 meta specs. They are the real problem with the bracket and they know it.

I miss the old f2p days of cata/mop

 

[Pexela]

I mean...maintain a community and change the focus? A lot of people are going into PvE. Go for Wargames, PvE, World PvP battles, forget the bgs for a while. Game doesn't start at WSG and ends at AB.

Build a soloing community, a transmog community, a exploration community. Not that the game is any great, but it's passable for all of those things.

 

[Warglave]

Build a soloing community, a transmog community, a exploration community. Not that the game is any great, but it's passable for all of those things.

And it keeps people invested for a time until things may become favorable for your preferred gameplay again.

Not gonna harp on f2play at all, just offer that you're assuming that Blizz actually thinks the same thing you do... that's hard to guarantee. If the main focus is bug reports and forums complaints, that's not going to keep anyone invested if things dont change at all right away. Focus on community and progress of any kind is going to be more effective than just complaints and waiting for a train Blizz might not even have on the same track right now...

 

[Footman]

Yea, community is what made f2p 20's (especially Aerie Peak, and a couple other realms like bleeding hollow) the best twink bracket when trial accounts first started becoming a thing in cata and mists.

But... it's only because there was a foundation of a good game underneath at level 20...

Battlegrounds were the core that brought all us retarded f2p's together. And brought in stragglers from other realms like Kale as very familiar constant faces despite not seeing them at the dark moon fair heirloom grinding sessions.

I agree world quests, dungeons and worldpvp are quite fun... but there just aren't enough f2p's willing to casually group and do that stuff.. especially not now, and not long term. You need the half decent battlegrounds which enable very casual non committal high intensity fun to drive that. Without it 20's will continue to stagnate.

 

[Warglave]

Wargames then. Casual wargames, if you can manage such a thing.

 

[Dragpz]

which is exactly why blizz won’t ignore absolutely dead queues for these true starter edition players.
...
I miss the old f2p days of cata/mop

I commend you for fighting for what's left of the community because most people have just straight up quit. But at this point both WoW and its niche F2P/twinking community is clearly taking a sharp downturn

Battlegrounds were the core that brought all us retarded f2p's together. And brought in stragglers from other realms like Kale as very familiar constant faces despite not seeing them at the dark moon fair heirloom grinding sessions.
...
You need the half decent battlegrounds which enable very casual non committal high intensity fun to drive that. Without it 20's will continue to stagnate.

This was the change that gutted 29s, and unfortunately will, or is, happening to 20s. The glory days were good, but the glory days are over. Enjoy it for what it was, not for what could have been. Maybe one day you'll come back to this bracket and be pleasantly surprised, or maybe not. Regardless, we are faced down by the same ultimatum that every WoW player is faced with, both F2P and Subbed player alike, and that is either to suck it up and put up with Blizzard's bad decisions, or say that you've had enough and just call it quits. Many have chosen the latter

 

[glancealot]

I don't even see the point of twinking anymore, you need to spend literally more time farming BiS (WoD WF+socket) than people do at 60.

And it's not even permanent, next prepatch will overhaul everything.

To farm BiS you also need a second paying account.

So you don't save money or time.

 

[Drimat]

I don't even see the point of twinking anymore, you need to spend literally more time farming BiS (WoD WF+socket) than people do at 60.

And it's not even permanent, next prepatch will overhaul everything.

To farm BiS you also need a second paying account.

So you don't save money or time.

You dont need bis really, i run mainly tbc blue and a couple epic upgrades on my 20 and do just fine. 40% mast, 20% vers and crit, 366 hp/10sec and 24% speed as prot warrior.

Sure could go for full wod epic/sock/tert but as you said could be overhauled, so why bother.
do what you wanna do and have fun doing and screw anyone that wants to shit on it

Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk

 

[shanker]

I thought everyone agreed years ago that F2Ps are not twinks.

that was the reason the BH 19's used to get 19 F2Ps out of their bracket. in CATA a F2P could get 10g (was gold cap) and turn off XP. blizzard jerked hard, turned on XP, and at 20..........put us in XP off 20-29 when F2P hit 20

now, there was more to this, and the drama was caused by 19 twinks, they were rolling alt F2P accounts, to get BG que pops.. but it went farther the ill geared F2P 10-19s were being used to set up GY farms, quick win BGs, achievements, mostly to grief, sabotage, spying, or throw games.

i think i may have given a example in the past where the known BH crew who should not have to cheat did. i was stealthing my rogue up one side of the BG, to see a hunter, boomkin, BM on the opposite side of the map come right at me and killed me. we had a F2P feeding them data. even more ironic is that the same BH players were the petitioners for F2P out of 19s. they were getting countered and burned also.

19 bracket pretty much died to a few evening games and certain days. F2P 20s fed the next brackets over the years/expacs 20-29, then 20-24 (everyone forgets the tears that 29s had) and then back to 20-29

 

[Magrain]

I don't even see the point of twinking anymore, you need to spend literally more time farming BiS (WoD WF+socket) than people do at 60.

And it's not even permanent, next prepatch will overhaul everything.

To farm BiS you also need a second paying account.

So you don't save money or time.

You know? I used to envy most top tier twinks for having top notch gear and GFed gear. But seeing how things change drastically in every pre-patch/new expansion, I sincerely don't want to be in anyone who invested time and money's shoe just to have majority of his gear get red and/or weakened. Guess ill stay content with what I have rn.

 

[Warglave]

If you have a gemmed tbc 20 with enchants, you're probably at least about as good as you would be farming up epics now... if not better. Until they adjust the level limits on enchants, the epic grind isnt very appealing, IMO.

Maybe epic weapon with SL enchant would be worth doing? Even an extra socket isnt gonna to cover the loss of enchant.

I dont even think you can put tinkers on new ilvl belts, can you? Or can you....?

 

[chelly]

Imagine not wanting to work to be good.

 

[Warglave]

Imagine not wanting to work to be good.

Imagine losing to someone in worse gear than you.


edit- so i found a 20 with an epic upgrade chest from Auchenai crypts, which of course i didnt enchant...

Serves a good comparison, tho.