EU+US Legion Invasion Event

Benefits:
  • More Level playing field with normalized Stats via the new Template.
  • Potentially less bursty, therefore more Balanced.
  • Lower Levels of each Bracket will be more in line with their higher Levels of each Bracket.
  • XPOff re-merges with XPOn causing potentially much faster BG Pops.
  • No Procs, no Enchants, no Set Bonuses, no Gems will help Balance BG's.

Drawbacks:
  • Without Gear for x9's to be 'Superior' over everyone else, some Twinks (cough 19's cough) are claiming Legion will end Twinking (they're wrong but still loud about it).
  • A Certain Twink Level is pissed about the re-merging of BG's because they can no longer insta kick Players entering 'their BG' just because they don't like them.
  • This certain Twink Level is also mad/sad that they will have to PvP against common Plebs, Levelers, fithly Casuals and the x0's of 'their Bracket'.
  • No Procs, no Enchants, no Set Bonuses, no Gems does kind of suck, even if it will help to Balance things.
 
Purj said:
I was under the impression that you were assigned ilvl 24 via the stat template in instanced PvP. Is this no longer the case?
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Everyone was under the impression that Player and Item Level Scaling systems would stay. Even Blizzard gave us that impression when they said there was a "Threshold" and each iLvl difference above said Threshold would increase by .1%. Its not that the previous statement is false, its that the BASIS for the statement has changed from current PvP Standings. There is no iLvl 24 threshold for 19s. Just like there isnt an iLvl 138 Threshold for 60-69 bracket anymore.

I was debating making a shitty video to help explain this since everyone seems to still be confused, but Ill try one last time to explain how the 'template' works in its current form.
Player A is lvl 10 - His base Template starts for a level 10 character, say 8 Rating for all secondaries (which is different than percentage)
Player B is lvl 19 - His base Template starts for a level 19 character, say 13 Rating for all secondaries.

Player A has full BiS possible (Huge Rock Rings, etc) - this increases his average iLvl to 30. For each X average iLvl he will gain Y increase to his template. Making his rating value now 22.
Player B has Greys all of iLvl 1 - this gives him 0 increase to the template as his average iLvl hasnt increased ENOUGH to bump his Template values. He remains at 13 Rating.

Player A still has a 80% or so miss chance against Player B because there is no Player Level Scaling system. Also, your Primary Stat and Health will also scale up some just like your ratings will.
Note: ALL VALUES ABOVE IN THE EXAMPLE ARE JUST MADE UP NUMBERS TO EXPLAIN HOW THE NEW TEMPLATE SYSTEM CURRENTLY WORKS


Lionsfury said:
What benefits does this new change have for us twinks (higher ilvl, better stats in BGs)? Also any drawbacks?
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TL;DR - Twinks will have a small advantage in values. Template values still will be lower than what we have seen in PvP for many expansions (talking about 5% haste and 12% Crit). The biggest advantage will be Player Level.
Read my previous post (that also links to the WoW Forums post). http://xpoff.com/threads/bracket-scaling-in-legion.68248/
 
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Thank you both for your answers. :) I'll delve more into these new changes soon and find out other stuff

edit: Can somebody explain to me please, for example, if there were cloth gloves with intellect on it and some other irrelevant stats, but they had the highest ilvl in the game for level 20's, would those gloves be BiS even for a lvl 20 rogue?

I understand that it can still change till Legion releases but if this can potentially be the case in Legion, I would find it quite strange.
 
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Lionsfury said:
edit: Can somebody explain to me please, for example, if there were cloth gloves with intellect on it and some other irrelevant stats, but they had the highest ilvl in the game for level 20's, would those gloves be BiS even for a lvl 20 rogue?
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Currently the system only goes off iLvl, so if you have a higher iLvl item that isnt for your spec or class, it would still be BiS for PvP. A prime example of this is for Paladins and Shamans (and any Caster for that matter), it seems 2Hder is better than 1HD/Shield because of the extra split of Average iLvl (If all three items are of the same iLvl) - loss of a Shield also doesnt seem to reduce your Armor from your template.

However, I was curious to see if this would affect the Armor Proficiency Passive (5% bonus to Primary Stat) in Instanced PvP, and it appears that it does. Which means anyone under lvl 50 (the level which you get the Passive) is free to focus on iLvl regardless of Armor Type, while anyone above will need to also take Armor Type into consideration.
 
Glorifyd said:
Currently the system only goes off iLvl, so if you have a higher iLvl item that isnt for your spec or class, it would still be BiS for PvP. A prime example of this is for Paladins and Shamans (and any Caster for that matter), it seems 2Hder is better than 1HD/Shield because of the extra split of Average iLvl (If all three items are of the same iLvl) - loss of a Shield also doesnt seem to reduce your Armor from your template.

However, I was curious to see if this would affect the Armor Proficiency Passive (5% bonus to Primary Stat) in Instanced PvP, and it appears that it does. Which means anyone under lvl 50 (the level which you get the Passive) is free to focus on iLvl regardless of Armor Type, while anyone above will need to also take Armor Type into consideration.
Click to expand...

The level 10 scaling thing is also quite crazy, however you lose out on so many abilities that I doubt it'll be worth for any other class other than Rshaman and Ele Shaman.
 
Glorifyd said:
Everyone was under the impression that Player and Item Level Scaling systems would stay.
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I have yet to see any official confirmation on that. it still maybe be a bug.
Setting templates to scale to players level will in no way bring balance.
As you stated, it will be 1 step forward 2 steps back. Only blind person will not see that.
 
SPQR said:
I have yet to see any official confirmation on that. it still maybe be a bug.
Setting templates to scale to players level will in no way bring balance.
As you stated, it will be 1 step forward 2 steps back. Only blind person will not see that.
Click to expand...

When a change is consciously made it isn't a bug. It's a Change.
 
SPQR said:
I have yet to see any official confirmation on that. it still maybe be a bug.
Setting templates to scale to players level will in no way bring balance.
As you stated, it will be 1 step forward 2 steps back. Only blind person will not see that.
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You would think that but its Blizzard, so who knows. I mean, my post got 20+ Upvotes and a Sticky request with 0 reply, it was constantly bumped for over 4-5 Hours at top of the page, so who knows, maybe Blizzard is just trying to be 'transparent' again. :^)
 
Glorifyd said:
The bigger thing is the Miss Chance. Being lvl 10 even if you have higher Template Values is still going to mean you Miss 4 out of 5 times.
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10's absolutely DO NOT miss 80% of attacks on 19's either in Duels or Instanced PvP, not sure where you got that idea.
 
Glorifyd said:
Yet, when Im going against a 69 on PTR thats about my ratio of missing vs hitting. Sooooo.... ?
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...As a 60 or a 10? I 100% guarantee 10's do NOT have an 80% Miss chance against 19's. I can't even understand why a 60 would have an 80% miss chance against a 69 unless it's a stupid PTR bug atm. Also there's the fact that we have 10's actually testing this against 19's in Arena on PTR, just yesterday, and are finding what I'm saying correct. You have certainly done some great PTR testing of the 7.0 changes and we all here at XPOff appreciate it, but in this one specific instance I'm going to have to say you're incorrect.
 
I have no idea what the hit to miss ratio for 10 v 19 would be. I assumed it would be the same as a 60 v 69. It wouldnt make sense that a 9 lvl difference would give a different hit chance between certain levels. Also 80% was a ball part figure, as I actually didnt calculate the percentage. Over the course of testing other things, I missed an overwhelming majority of my abilities on 69s.
 
There shouldn't be an 80% miss chance on a 60 against a 69, or a 90 against a 99, it's GOT to be a bug with the current PTR build. I'll do some testing when I get a chance this week but I'd wager I don't even have an 80% miss chance on my 10 against a Level 45, considering I can solo Furbolgs in Winterspring on my Hunter, granted it's slow as shit because I probably do have a ~60% miss chance. Either way I'll test some MUCH higher Level NPCs and any Players I can find in the 30's and 40's to see if a Player is any different than an NPC. Whatever the miss chance is now with Hit Rating removed, it'd be nice to put a tested numerical value on it.
 
When Blizzard originally "removed" hit rating, it was theorized that they simply took hit rating off the character sheet and gave everyone the same +15% hit rating that healing specs got. That made it so that no one would miss in PvE content (mobs and bosses up to 4 levels higher), but misses still happened in World PvP and extreme PvE disparities e.g. 50s who raid 60 content.

The "removal" hack goes in the same category of why magical resistance, PvP resilience, and PvP power still exist long after they got "removed".

To speculate, it's very possible that 10s will miss much less often against 19s because secondary stats (which hit rating used to be) scale so well for 10s. To test this theory, have 20s battle 29s, and see if they miss as often as 60s are missing vs. 69s.
 
DeLindsay said:
I probably do have a ~60% miss chance.
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Wait, are you trying to say that my information is wrong because instead of a ~80% chance its a ~60%? LOLOLOL. Im over here like, 'Maybe there is hope after all!'

60% is no better than 80%. Even at 60% thats bullshit, and an overall unnecessary change that was fixed via the Player Level Scaling System.
 
~60% from Level 10 fighting a Level 45, not Level 10 to 19. And I 100% agree there should be no more than ~10% miss chance within 10 Levels.

EDIT: Quick and dirty test against Gammerita [Level 31] and Recount shows 33.3% miss chance. Far too small a portion to call that a real test but still it's roughly inline with what I was saying about 10v19's and 10v45's.
 
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Imnotabelf said:
Any idea when these invasions will begin in live game?
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Only speculation. 7.0 should hit July 19th or 26th and Blizz has stated that the Invasion will not be active the day 7.0 hits. That pushes the actual Invasion on Live Servers to July 26th, Aug 2nd or Aug 8th. The reason behind the dates we speculate is previous xpac Events started roughly the 3 weeks leading up to the release of that xpac, which Blizz is slating for Aug 30th.

Once again, this is all speculation, I don't work for Blizzard and even if I did probably couldn't tell you anything concrete.

EDIT: My own prediction (based how many bugs are still in Beta/PTR) is:
  • 7.0 = July 26th
  • 7.0.1 (or 7.0.2) = Aug 8th [Invasion Event]
 
DeLindsay said:
Only speculation. 7.0 should hit July 19th or 26th and Blizz has stated that the Invasion will not be active the day 7.0 hits. That pushes the actual Invasion on Live Servers to July 26th, Aug 2nd or Aug 8th. The reason behind the dates we speculate is previous xpac Events started roughly the 3 weeks leading up to the release of that xpac, which Blizz is slating for Aug 30th.

Once again, this is all speculation, I don't work for Blizzard and even if I did probably couldn't tell you anything concrete.

EDIT: My own prediction (based how many bugs are still in Beta/PTR) is:
  • 7.0 = July 26th
  • 7.0.1 (or 7.0.2) = Aug 8th [Invasion Event]
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Appreciate the reply! I hope it starts soon, looks like a lot of fun.
 
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