EU+US Leech for Evading Classes

[Veechard]

I noticed a lot of melee don't like to stack leech fully and I can understand why as you have nearly 100% uptime while in pve and pvp scenarios and 20% or what-have-you is more than enough. However on classes who need to evade/ use other global non ( or little) damaging abilities, to do more damage in turn, would want to stack as much leech as possible? Let me give and example. As an Arcane mage, when a boss or player, or pack of mobs gets to close to me, kiting with Arcane barrage speed bonus is a must. During that time, my only damage going out is the actual Arcane barrage damage. So from what I'm seeing, I want as much leech as I possibly can stack, in order to get the biggest health return during those "down times". Any thoughts on this? Did anyone else have this realization like me with your class?

 

[norcal313]

It sounds like you want a set to swap in/out during downtime, but you gave an example of fighting packs of mobs that get too close to you. Can't switch gear in combat so maybe I misunderstand what you're asking?

I have a few different sets of gear, including a leech set. I love leech on my frost DK, it makes just about everything I do in pve completely carefree. My leech set is over 60% and my normal DPS gear is currently at 26%. 26% is more than enough for 90% of the stuff I do.

The problem is finding high ilvl leech gear. 840 leech gear is a dime a dozen and you'll notice the dps loss when you swap in 840 pieces instead of your 870+ stuff. My suggestion would be to try and find leech items that you can swap in with your current lowest ilvl gear and work your way up from there.

 

[Veechard]

It sounds like you want a set to swap in/out during downtime, but you gave an example of fighting packs of mobs that get too close to you. Can't switch gear in combat so maybe I misunderstand what you're asking?

I have a few different sets of gear, including a leech set. I love leech on my frost DK, it makes just about everything I do in pve completely carefree. My leech set is over 60% and my normal DPS gear is currently at 26%. 26% is more than enough for 90% of the stuff I do.

The problem is finding high ilvl leech gear. 840 leech gear is a dime a dozen and you'll notice the dps loss when you swap in 840 pieces instead of your 870+ stuff. My suggestion would be to try and find leech items that you can swap in with your current lowest ilvl gear and work your way up from there.

Ok I'll break it down, I could be wrong but from what I'm seeing this is how it goes for Arcane mage:

Say Im soloing a boss. It's always most optimal for me to stand still, cast, and eat the damage cuz of leech. But what if my leech even at 41% isn't enough to keep me alive?
I have 2 moves as my disposal.
Arcane barrage 70% movement for 5 second and shimmers (blink)

Now, say I'm fighting a boss and I'm at 28% health. Boss swings me down to say 3%, and my leech puts me back up to 50%. I know he boss will do 2 more attack for the rest of my health before another leech tick happens.
So I shimmer twice and Arcane barrage a few times till I get max range on boss and start casting for a few seconds before boss catches up. During that time of running in between the leech tick, if I get off 3 Arcane barrages, that's 3 barrage damage with my 41% instead of say someone with 10%. ( a lot less health return). And I'm turn, I won't be able to cast while boss is attacking me down to low as fast. So in theory, the more leech I can get, the longer I can dps after evading the boss.

That a little clearer?

 

[norcal313]

Sounds like you answered your own question, Veech.

 

[Veechard]

Sounds like you answered your own question, Veech.

I spose. I more or less wanted to see if other classes working in this fashion or if all other classes just tank n spank

 

[Veechard]

So actually all classes with a run speed/blink ability and some kind of ranged ability can benefit from as much leech as possible. A rogue who's outlaw if getting low on health to the point leech tick won't go off in time, can spring and spam pistol shot till sprint duration is over and not get touched but generate some leech. This would be the case for all classes with that ability no? Death knights and wraith walk and whatever ranged attack they have, etc

 

[DeLindsay]

I more or less wanted to see if other classes working in this fashion or if all other classes just tank n spank

Every Class is unique. My Ele Shaman requires massive amounts of Leech because she takes a shit load of damage and I NEED to stand still as much as possible. On the flip side my Demo Lock takes literally no damage and while I'll carry a little bit of Leech for 'just in case' scenarios, I'm only shooting for 5-10% on him with the rest Speed because he has no Movement Speed Abilities.

My BM Hunter on the other hand is Beast mode, srs. At only 830 iLvL I can push close to 700K DPS ST and bring down the 25 mil Health 'Kill Bosses' during Assaults solo, using a Pet set to Ferocity and never have to heal the Pet once with only like 6% Leech. Then my Shockadin, well he's invincible and iirc I've got him down to ~4% Leech now. I think you get the point. Every Class is unique and will require a differing amount of Leech, if any at all.

 

[norcal313]

One thing I haven't looked in to, and would like to know is how leech affects healing abilities. Straight heals, healing attacks, etc

 

[Veechard]

Every Class is unique. My Ele Shaman requires massive amounts of Leech because she takes a shit load of damage and I NEED to stand still as much as possible. On the flip side my Demo Lock takes literally no damage and while I'll carry a little bit of Leech for 'just in case' scenarios, I'm only shooting for 5-10% on him with the rest Speed because he has no Movement Speed Abilities.

My BM Hunter on the other hand is Beast mode, srs. At only 830 iLvL I can push close to 700K DPS ST and bring down the 25 mil Health 'Kill Bosses' during Assaults solo, using a Pet set to Ferocity and never have to heal the Pet once with only like 6% Leech. Then my Shockadin, well he's invincible and iirc I've got him down to ~4% Leech now. I think you get the point. Every Class is unique and will require a differing amount of Leech, if any at all.

Well what about your shammy for instance. Do they have a movement speed ability? If so, and your stuck on soloing a certain boss, wouldn't it be better to stack leech and use that movement speed ability to get range on boss and while doing that doing instant cast or cast while moving abilities to get health back and not take damage. Like say u can get gruul Mythic to 20% and your not hitting enrage your just dieing, and u stood in place while fights, maybe that extra bit of health gain with no damage taken could get u the survival u need to finish that last 20%? I understand it's situational but if you are a class who has a movement speed/ blink ability and a ranged attack would it not make sense to use every chance you can get AND stack a such leech as possible for that situation if your having troubles on a boss?

 

[Veechard]

I know for a fact, I was unable to solo Kazzak with 41% leech by standing in one stop, but with my kite method, and taking 0 damage while kiting till he caught up to me, but getting all that free damage (heals cuz of leech) while doing so, I was able to solo with ease. I'd imagine this would be same for other classes like outlaw rogue I metioned earlier. Sprint and spam pistol shot. U won't be attacked for 10 seconds and you'll get all those free heals. "Shrug". I know plate wearers probably know much more about this. I'd like to hear what a blood dk has to say. Do they have a viable ranged attack, I know they got wraith walk. Is there situations a blood DK knows at a certain point in the fight certain cooldowns will be down and leech proc won't happen in time so they have to wraith walk and maybe use a engineering rocket if no viable ranged attacks? Hell even DND and run the boss in circles around it? Would be interesting to see what tank spec players with speed increase/ blink abilities have to say about this.

 

[Dannymcbride]

I don't think its true shammys need a lot of leech, maybe at low ilvl and low rank on weapon.
but I'm running only 5% leech now and tank n spank nelth runs like a low lvl quest, farm with ez, etc.

 

[DeLindsay]

I don't think its true shammys need a lot of leech, maybe at low ilvl and low rank on weapon.
but I'm running only 5% leech now and tank n spank nelth runs like a low lvl quest, farm with ez, etc.

Your Ele is 22 iLvLs higher than mine (that's huge) and I only have 4.24% Leech so far, which means my comment about requiring massive amounts of Leech was certainly exaggerated but I still need much more than I have now, say in the 15-20% range. Also, we're only 1 Rank apart on the Artifact Weapon.

@Veechard ofc it's superior to stack more Leech on a Character with Utility Movement Speed Abilities. But again, it's different on every Class and maybe even down to individual Specs too.

 

[Veechard]

I don't think its true shammys need a lot of leech, maybe at low ilvl and low rank on weapon.
but I'm running only 5% leech now and tank n spank nelth runs like a low lvl quest, farm with ez, etc.

Have you tried soloing diffucult bosses, could be a different world as far as your moves go.

 

[Dannymcbride]

I know for a fact, I was unable to solo Kazzak with 41% leech by standing in one stop, but with my kite method, and taking 0 damage while kiting till he caught up to me, but getting all that free damage (heals cuz of leech) while doing so, I was able to solo with ease. I'd imagine this would be same for other classes like outlaw rogue I metioned earlier. Sprint and spam pistol shot. U won't be attacked for 10 seconds and you'll get all those free heals. "Shrug". I know plate wearers probably know much more about this. I'd like to hear what a blood dk has to say. Do they have a viable ranged attack, I know they got wraith walk. Is there situations a blood DK knows at a certain point in the fight certain cooldowns will be down and leech proc won't happen in time so they have to wraith walk and maybe use a engineering rocket if no viable ranged attacks? Hell even DND and run the boss in circles around it? Would be interesting to see what tank spec players with speed increase/ blink abilities have to say about this.

Have you tried soloing diffucult bosses, could be a different world as far as your moves go.

What do u call difficult bosses? you said you couldn't do kazzak with 41% leech standing still, with my 5% leech I can stand still tank n spank him with EZ.

 

[Veechard]

What do u call difficult bosses? you said you couldn't do kazzak with 41% leech standing still, with my 5% leech I can stand still tank n spank him with EZ.

Have you tried soloing mythic WOD raid bosses? This is more or less what I meant. It's one thing to have a rotation with legion dungeons and kazz but maybe harder stuff would involve you do have to kite to regain health because boss would kill you otherwise? Idk, trying to get a gague on what classes HAVE to kite for end game soloing

 

[MyPerfection]

The thing is, the better your gear, the less leech is needed.

And how much leech you need? You can only find that out for yourself. The content you are doing (which is important to you) ... when I look back on my arcane it looked like this

[Mythic] Warlords of Draenor Dungeons

Arcane Mage 806|769|14 +16% Leech
[Bloodmaul Slag Mines] clear
[The Everbloom] clear
[Shadowmoon Burial Grounds] clear
[Upper Blackrock Spire] clear

Or like this:

Arcane Mage - 815|769|15 /w 15% Leech
Kargath Bladefist - down
The Butcher - down
Tectus - down
Brackenspore - down
Twin Ogron - down
Ko'ragh - down
Imperator Mar'gok - down
Highmaul 10 Normal - clear

Arcane Mage - 817|769|15 /w 9% Leech
Mogu'shan Vaults - 25 Heroic - clear
Terrace of Endless Spring - 25 Heroic - clear

And the sad part is, an arcane can't use leech in a good way for kiting like others do. Because we lack of DoTs. And if we use arcane barrage we lose our stacks and dps. Standing still and "outleeching" the boss is normally the way to go.

 

[MyPerfection]

Have you tried soloing mythic WOD raid bosses? This is more or less what I meant. It's one thing to have a rotation with legion dungeons and kazz but maybe harder stuff would involve you do have to kite to regain health because boss would kill you otherwise? Idk, trying to get a gague on what classes HAVE to kite for end game soloing

Mythic WoD Raids should be impossible even with full titanforged mastery / versatility gear and leech on every single item. You will run oom and die because we don't have heals from DoTs. Bosses have way too much health to burst them down.

 

[Dannymcbride]

Have you tried soloing mythic WOD raid bosses? This is more or less what I meant. It's one thing to have a rotation with legion dungeons and kazz but maybe harder stuff would involve you do have to kite to regain health because boss would kill you otherwise? Idk, trying to get a gague on what classes HAVE to kite for end game soloing

the only WOD boss ive done solo since ive been a 101 twink is bladefist heroic to get the blue fist weapon to match my tabard,
I was solo'n that at ilvl840ish with no leech. il have to try some solo WOD mythics.

 

[Veechard]

Mythic WoD Raids should be impossible even with full titanforged mastery / versatility gear and leech on every single item. You will run oom and die because we don't have heals from DoTs. Bosses have way too much health to burst them down.

Couldn't disagree more. I'll do some testing in the future when I get tier chest with socket leech/speed, but I can guarantee I should be able to do 1st 6 bosses. You said you would go oom before anything. If your doing Arcane mage rotation correctly this would be the last of your worries. Arcane mage is set up to have enough mana till essentially your next evocation. My guess is your spamming Arcane blast? If this is what your having to do to stay alive I'd recommend more leech. A solo mythic fight for an Arcane mage should go like this:
4 Arcane blasts followed by barrage while fight. Using cooldowns when your heal gets low for extra leech heals to get back to full. Also shimmer then Arcane barrage to get max distance every chance you can get.
I think Arcane mages have huge potential with the realization I had yesterday. If you arnt getting close to hitting enrage timer, kiting boss when you get low on health will be a goto.
Like I said I'll do some testing once I get my tier chest but I can say for sure if mana is your issue and bosses health pool is as well, your doing something wrong.

 

[MyPerfection]

Like I said I'll do some testing once I get my tier chest but I can say for sure if mana is your issue and bosses health pool is as well, your doing something wrong.

What did you solo so far in draenor raids?