I am not feeling the love in the Level Twenty Twinking forum.

[willix]

I figured I'd wait a couple days before I responded to your replies.

1. Nothing I said is untrue.

2. No one expects you to please everyone (certainly not me). The point of having structure and order is to create a specific environment. This is also why you have rules. Every bracket in this game has their own forum section. The only bracket that doesn't follow this basic scheme is the 20-29 bracket. They get two forum sections, because for some random reason, you have decided to appease the vocal minority by giving them their segregation. Segregation that only serves to fracture the community.

3. Everyone is on an even playing field. Everyone has the same exact access to the game as anyone else. This idea that certain people can't afford to pay for the full game/sub fee is ridiculous at best. You have a PC? You have internet? Those things cost a lot more than Wow does to play each month. How is it that you can afford to pay for high speed internet and a gaming computer but you can't pay $15 a month for Wow? Now, I understand people making the choice to play a trial/veteran despite being able to afford the full game, but like any other choice, there are consequences. In this case, the consequences for your choice is being at a disadvantage compared people who make a different choice. No one gets to put those consequences onto anyone but themselves.

4. You don't lump everyone into the same forum because not everyone belongs to the same bracket. The forums are divided by bracket, not by the whims of players. The 20-29 section should be no different.

 

[l30t53dd6p]

The truth is that lots of people have given lots of good reasons for the way the sections are split. In fact I suggested to the community that we were thinking about putting everyone together, and the community rebelled.

And that is why this just simply failed. People rebelled, voted for their own interests and you were influenced by it disgarding your own believes, it looks like, about what is the right thing to do and made a stupid poll about it when it simply came down to splitting all, merging all or merging all with sub forums for the specific account type. The other options were not thought about properly and these 3 options mentioned above are the only mature solution to this problem and others just bring frustration to a side which you wanted to ban from these forums just like the terms f2p and p2p but they are the real deal in peoples mind and can't be ignored.

 

[l30t53dd6p]

Actually yea there is. If I'm a 20 my information is going to vary drastically then if I was a 29. Gear, chants, guide, talents, glyphs, dungeons...

Vet 20 vs starter 20 is 1 thing, chants. No reason to split that up. why have 2 areas for guides that reference the same thing?

You can view it as a divided community but you don't have to. This is a correct division of information... One forum containing information for 2 very different play styles doesn't really make sense.

Proves once again the point of the standard starter edition account and pulling veteran starter edition accounts and subbed level 20 players to their forum. It is just like you said, 2 different play-styles in 1 forum but there are infact 3 different forms in this bracket regardless of the same gear, chants and shizzle, it are still 3 play-styles not 2. Having 3 sections makes way more sense then 2 and pulling veteran starter edition accounts and subbed level 20s into the starter edition forums and call it level 20 twinking is just hillarious which is also a bad name change.

The correct way to have a correct division of information about this bracket is merging all with seperate sub sections for the specific account type. Not having 2 with one for 29s and one for standard starter edition accounts, veteran starter edition accounts and subbed level 20s.

 

[l30t53dd6p]

People have to realise that this new system is there for returning subbed world of warcraft players and that standard starter edition account players use this to up their characters is fine but not fine when it gets claimed by probably the same people who used to be standard starter edition while it is nothing more then a side effect. Please do explain to me why all of this is moved to the starter edition account player former forums because of the logic that it is the same level doesn't make any sense and why you didn't simply chose the best possible solution of merging all with sub sections for each play-style.

 

[Kincaide]

Look you two. You don't have any idea how much thought I put into this, and how the ideas were bounced around through the other mods and what Shane's input was in the end. So it's pretty fallacious and unfair to say "You didn't even consider---" oh yes we did. Believe me, we did. I spent the better part of my Spring Break attending to the polls, answering people's questions, and thinking long and hard about not only what the results were, but -who- voted for each option and -why- they voted for that option.

Contrary to what [MENTION=12370]willix[/MENTION] said, the Starters and Veterans are not a vocal minority. They are far and away the majority in this bracket. But their end game is significantly different from that of the 29s, and the two groups have wildly different needs as far as information is concerned. It would be fair to neither group to make one have to sift through the posts of the other. The majority of the people who voted to keep the twenties separated from the 29s were actually the 29s themselves. You can't see that anymore because the names are removed when the poll was closed, but believe me, I very carefully researched every result and considered what motivations each person may have had for voting the way they did.

I'm sorry that the two of you don't agree with the result but it's the right choice. You are welcome to keep talking about it if you wish, but it won't change anything. If I have one of you saying you want one forum, and the other of you saying you want three forums, then I feel like by splitting the difference down the middle, it's likely we've hit the mark.

 

[l30t53dd6p]

Look you two. You don't have any idea how much thought I put into this, and how the ideas were bounced around through the other mods and what Shane's input was in the end. So it's pretty fallacious and unfair to say "You didn't even consider---" oh yes we did. Believe me, we did. I spent the better part of my Spring Break attending to the polls, answering people's questions, and thinking long and hard about not only what the results were, but -who- voted for each option and -why- they voted for that option.

No, you did not considder nor weight all pros and cons from all sides (this might not be you I am generally talking to all the mods, saw kilda scream some nonsense in the poll thread, which came true btw, and shane who doesn't care about any of it in the first place), atleast not from all perspectives and you wasted so much time on creating useless and no-go poll options while the answer is pretty simple. I apreciate you taking the time with this but it was not realistic at all.

You simply did not considder subbed level 20s and find the middle way out of this mess. You throw them in the section they do not belong and it was better to keep the forums as they were.

I am a p2p level 20 which is the target group. Not the standard starter edition accounts nor 29s. These shouldn't have had any voting permissions in the first place when you segerate bracket players into groups and it is pretty obvious what they think about this and this influenced you mods way to much with making this decision otherwise you would have choosen for seperate all and continue this seperation like you have done with standard starter editions and 20-29 subbed players, merge all to stop this segeration of this bracket with all the consequences it gives or merge all and make sub forums so it covers the whole bracket into 1 place.

In short and example: You do not put christians and muslims in the same church, they can get along just fine as people but their believes do not and what TI does is literally placing them together in a church with signs around their necks if someone is a christian or muslim.

 

[Allybeboba]

I simply do not get what the big deal is about. It is practically the way it was seven days ago. Why are you all still in debate over this issue? The only real difference is the thread heading, that is it. You all are making a mountain out of mole hill. Either that you are arguing just for arguement's sake and you just can't stand it when someone else gets the last word in so you HAVE to speak last.
Have a wonderful day!

/cheers
Sweetsidney

 

[l30t53dd6p]

I simply do not get what the big deal is about. It is practically the way it was seven days ago. Why are you all still in debate over this issue? The only real difference is the thread heading, that is it. You all are making a mountain out of mole hill. Either that you are arguing just for arguement's sake and you just can't stand it when someone else gets the last word in so you HAVE to speak last.
Have a wonderful day!

/cheers
Sweetsidney

No it is not the same. Do not be so ignorrant. I know you can do it. You know pretty well how this situation is on these forums. P2p 20s shifted forums and is a major issue.

 

[Franchi]

WAHHHH I WANT DRAMA AND RAGE FESTS EVERY DAY!!!!!!!!! YOU DUMB FOR NO LETTING ME HAVE FORUMS ON FIRE EVERY DAY!!!!!!!

Ran that wall of text past twinktranslate and that is what came out.

 

[l30t53dd6p]

Ran that wall of text past twinktranslate and that is what came out.

This is actually what I want to prevent. Reading problems and low intelligence... check.

 

[Kincaide]

Reading problems and low intelligence... check.

You're welcome to keep repeating your opinion to whomever will listen if that makes you happy, but do so respectfully or I'll close the thread.

 

[l30t53dd6p]

You're welcome to keep repeating your opinion to whomever will listen if that makes you happy, but do so respectfully or I'll close the thread.

Are you for real? Respectfull? Was what he did a respectfull reply? Wasn't that just him trying to insult me here?

Just close the damn thread already if you are not going to do anything with it like you should as a mature person. You see it as opinion, but infact I play f2p 20s p2p 20s and 29s, how the f* can you say that this is my opinion. I am not even getting close to forming an opinion on this matter, you can read all about it in my replies about this subject, but I sure as hell do know what is right and wrong and having a huge sense of community, and that is why you reply now like you do now, it might be that I disgard some of your poll options as useless and throwing more info at you then you ever thought about with your fellow staff members and the reason why you dodge my questions and concerns now. This is not hard to understand at all and I hope you ever get what I have for making you a better person and a better mod.

Retarded people all the time who think they can place them in other peoples positions but not thinking about it all and badly finger pointing just now is enough for me.

 

[Fry]

Are you for real? Respectfull? Was what he did a respectfull reply? Wasn't that just him trying to insult me here?

Just close the damn thread already if you are not going to do anything with it like you should as a mature person. You see it as opinion, but infact I play f2p 20s p2p 20s and 29s, how the f* can you say that this is my opinion. I am not even getting close to forming an opinion on this matter, you can read all about it in my replies about this subject, but I sure as hell do know what is right and wrong and having a huge sense of community, and that is why you reply now like you do now, it might be that I disgard some of your poll options as useless and throwing more info at you then you ever thought about with your fellow staff members and the reason why you dodge my questions and concerns now. This is not hard to understand at all and I hope you ever get what I have for making you a better person and a better mod.

Retarded people all the time who think they can place them in other peoples positions but not thinking about it all and badly finger pointing just now is enough for me.

It is your opinion. Anything that goes through your brain and comes out of your mouth (or fingers, in this case) is merely your opinion. If you say that you play all types of 20-29 twinks, then why are you complaining? You are closing the doors yourself. You're welcome to talk on the lvl 20 twinking forum aswell as the lvl 20-29 bracket forum.
Next time TI asks for moderators you can apply and show us "what is right and wrong". We do what we think is best for our community. We tried to get as many opinions as we could because we are aware that what makes TI is our community. Of course we know we can't please everyone. In fact, being a moderator is by far one of the most thankless, less fun jobs ever.

You talk about being mature, yet your replies only come out as rants.
And about your muslim+christians "metaphor", this is the thing. You're labeling yourself. We have a bunch of people and have a room that says "For people". Those people ofc must have different ways of seeing the world, but we think that they can be in the same room simply because they all share the same characteristic, they all are human beings. Then there are some that chose to wear a badge saying "Hi, I am christian". And they just want to be with christian people, which is fine. But they are not hating on the other groups just for being there. Then you come here with a tag that says "I am different, dont talk to me" and rant when people treat you different, when in fact you never made the effort to remove your badge and hang with the people, with no tags at all.

This "new" system has been around for 7 days or so. Would you let us try it and see the results? And try your best to "fit" and stop making yourself feel out of place just by labeling you?

 

[Mocha]

Are you for real? Respectfull? Was what he did a respectfull reply? Wasn't that just him trying to insult me here?

Just close the damn thread already if you are not going to do anything with it like you should as a mature person. You see it as opinion, but infact I play f2p 20s p2p 20s and 29s, how the f* can you say that this is my opinion. I am not even getting close to forming an opinion on this matter, you can read all about it in my replies about this subject, but I sure as hell do know what is right and wrong and having a huge sense of community, and that is why you reply now like you do now, it might be that I disgard some of your poll options as useless and throwing more info at you then you ever thought about with your fellow staff members and the reason why you dodge my questions and concerns now. This is not hard to understand at all and I hope you ever get what I have for making you a better person and a better mod.

Retarded people all the time who think they can place them in other peoples positions but not thinking about it all and badly finger pointing just now is enough for me.

All I'm going to say is you're suggesting we don't see things from all angles. This is untrue as we take our time when making site reconstruction modifications. But, do you see things from our side? No. I understand that there are differences between account types, and that's fine, but the fact is we are aiming for simplicity and having a clean site with sensical forum navigation.


You say that several moderators are immature for not immediately changing things to fit your needs. Immaturity is making an @ staff rant thread on their own website. Immaturity is calling everyone "retards".


Another thing. Moderators don't handle site reconstruction and maintenance. We may be capable of suggestions, but it's the Admins you'll want to talk to.


How many private messages have you sent to the admins respectfully and formally addressing your concerns before making a rant thread? My guess is 0.


Maturity is not acting heated by your emotions. Maturity is addressing your issues in a calm cool and collected manner and being proactive about the issue rather than spamming our site with @staff threads which only leads to accounts being banned. Do you seriously think a thread like this is going to result in anything good for you? No. You're calling out the staff and honestly you're being extremely unpleasant.