Shizznity
Legend
It might not be much, but i think this version of the MM hunter BiS is sligthly better... MM Hunter BiS i don't know tho, so would like some input why it would be better/bader =)
How to gear your 70 for PVE
- Thread starter Justhealme
- Start date
lúxyy
Legend
Justhealme said:
few things i noticed.
Enchant on bracer: Spell power over Int.
Enchant on Weapon: Spell power over Int.
Ring of Omnipotence instead of Signet of Ancient Magics - Item - World of Warcraft
tho that ring beeing unobtainble, its still bis.
Hex Shrunken head instead of Glimmering Naaru Sliver, more int and a 211 SP on use is kinda useless. also its unobtainble.
and last the shield, little bit more int but less spi, down to what you like. And if you dont have the ZA shield, and it beeing unobtainble, Aegis of Angelic Fortune - Item - World of Warcraft will be bis
I havent read the whole thread as its very long, but these are my thoughts on this.
D_Mordak
Legend
Berserker's Call is also no longer in the game. Or was that listed in the PvP guide?
Anyway great guide, but I have interesting question. Joined a guild that's gonna be doing BC PvE, but we have some more interesting restrictions. Those being no DK's, no races after BC, and no gems or enchants from wrath or later.
Only thing we do allow is glyphs. So, with that those restrictions in mind it greatly changes up some of the BiS for classes. Like I think Rogues BiS range becomes the Legendary instead of the 2 slot gun. This might be asking a lot, but
what would be BiS for Combat Rogue with the above restrictions?
Anyway great guide, but I have interesting question. Joined a guild that's gonna be doing BC PvE, but we have some more interesting restrictions. Those being no DK's, no races after BC, and no gems or enchants from wrath or later.
Only thing we do allow is glyphs. So, with that those restrictions in mind it greatly changes up some of the BiS for classes. Like I think Rogues BiS range becomes the Legendary instead of the 2 slot gun. This might be asking a lot, but
what would be BiS for Combat Rogue with the above restrictions?
mrdoobry
Legend
I am interested in your tank chardevs. I always thought getting the hit cap was a good idea for tanks? You have basically no hit on those chardevs yet have gone to the trouble of getting high expertise?
Is this due to the fact threat has been buffed so much that it is no longer an issue? If you not bothering with hit then why bother so much with expertise?
I'm far from knowledgable with level 70 tanks, so I may be missing something obvious here...?
Is this due to the fact threat has been buffed so much that it is no longer an issue? If you not bothering with hit then why bother so much with expertise?
I'm far from knowledgable with level 70 tanks, so I may be missing something obvious here...?
OP
OP
Justhealme
OG
Double post
OP
OP
Justhealme
OG
This is actually a fair point, and one I've been considering myself. These chardevs were all made before the 500% threat change, but even before that, hit was not critical to tanks. Threat was more of an issue at 70 than at 85, simply because some classes scale incredibly well with high levels of intellect / strength / agility, while the TPS of tanks doesn't scale to the same degree with their health unless they are vengeance capped, which only occurs while solo tanking Hyjal trash.
The high levels of expertise, however, are a result of the abundance of that stat on Sunwell gear. I have always in my tanking chardevs prioritized EH (stamina and armor) > avoidance (parry and dodge) > TPS (hit / expertise). I'm fairly certain that no TPS items have been chosen over items with greater EH or avoidance. I'll look through them in the near future, but if you spot any, be sure to let me know.
As for the presence of grandfathered ZA gear in the chardevs, the argument that people who played a 70 twink before ZA was removed (5 months ago) would know how to gear is extremely uncompelling. The people I've met playing 70 who actually know how to gear for PVE can be counted on a single hand. Selfproclaimed PVE-heroes on this site have in-game argued that the speed of the staff wielded by a Feral Druid affects the damage of Mangle / Shred and other such gems of ignorance to game mechanics. Practically no one at 70 has visited EJ, and those who did seem to have misunderstood whatever it was they read.
On the other hand, it raises a valid point. I will shortly add alternatives to the now unobtainable items in the notes beneath each chardev.
Nesyla
Legend
We might have had problems Satina, but i have to admit you did a stunning work with this guide.
It's really usefull and impressive.
Let the hate re-start after this.
OP
OP
Justhealme
OG
I recall having this discussion with you in-game before, and despite actually delivering math on the subject that thoroughly validated my claims, you remained ignorant of them. I'll try once more.
For the trinket, the decision stands between:
12 hit, 30 crit, 28 SP, 20 mp/5
vs.
45 int, 35 SP
As for your claim about the trinket not invoking the shared cooldown that all damage trinkets have, I'll take your word for it. It certainly did in TBC, and I have no reason to believe they would change it, but to tilt the argument in your favor, we'll assume that it doesn't, effectively allowing it to be used along with another DPS trinket during Arcane Power, increasing its value by 20%. The prospect of popping a mana gem at the very start of the fight during AP is ridiculous, but I'll let you have the benefit of the doubt. Thus, we can conclude that the two trinkets both grant roughly 35 spell power on average.
This leaves us with 12 hit, 30 crit, 20 mp/5 vs. 45 intellect. We might as well stop here, I don't see anyone in their right mind picking the former, especially considering that the BiS chardev is only 5 hit rating under the cap, and thus the most valuable part of this comparison (the 12 hit) would be almost entirely wasted.
As for Black Magic, I'll refer to the fact that haste is the worst stat for arcane. Stating that it allows you to build AB stacks faster doesn't prove anything - it's simply stating what haste does (increases the rate at which you cast). Crit, haste, hit and spellpower all accomplish the same thing: they increase your DPS in one way or the other. The reason haste sucks for arcane is that while increasing your DPS, it also increases the rate at which you spend your mana - this means you'll run low on mana more often and in turn have to stop casting Arcane Blast and use AM. At level 85, the value of spell power is almost three times that of haste (intellect is naturally even better). The difference is smaller at 70, but your proposition assumes that 1 haste is worth more than 1 spell power, when the opposite is obviously true. If we take into account issues such as haste capping, Black Magic becomes even worse. In conclusion, no case can be made for not choosing 81 spell power on your weapon.
It's quite obvious that you haven't actually made any effort to comprehend the theorycrafting behind arcane mages. Your gems, enchants, talents, gear choices and glyphs all display obvious misunderstandings of the most basic workings of the spec. It sucks to have your pride hurt, but with all the research that has gone into determining what is good for an arcane mage, all conducted by people competent at mathematics - to weigh that against your own personal inclinations and guesses, I feel confident in saying: You're wrong.
P.S.
If you're wondering which things I referred to above, I'll list them them here:
Missing a point in Nether Vortex
Using Arcane Missiles glyph instead of Mage Armor glyph
Using Blink glyph instead of Arcane Power glyph
Glyph of Mirror Image + Glyph of Conjuring are optimal minor glyphs
Runspeed meta instead of 3% crit bonus
250 mana on chest instead of 10 stats
Black magic on weapon instead of 81 SP
Gemming crit, haste and hit - all gems should be pure intellect
Inferior gear choices (too many to mention - refer to the Chardev on page one)
P.P.S.: I asked Xru a while ago (I think while we were having the discussion in-game) to look over the Chardev and see if he had any suggestions, or whether he thought your suggestions were improvements. Let's just say his verdict wouldn't make you happy.
Ccecil
Legend
Have you tested the Serpent Coil Braid?
I had it on my mage and the on use wasn't working...
Equip: You gain 25% more mana when you use a mana gem. In addition, using a mana gem grants you 225 spell power for 15 sec.
No buff showed up and nothing changed in the character state info. I was however, arcane when i tried this (though it would be pretty cool to pop mana gem and get 2 buffs)...
Esotra
Legend
Not being out-damaged by people who cant press one button with cooldowns macro'd to it doesn't mean you are 'Doing it right',
Ie; Being able to pull more, but being unwilling as you are already at the top (Of a small hill, it sounds like).
OP
OP
Justhealme
OG
Very well put. Often when people learn their twink isn't optimally geared, they'll resort to the argument that they top damage in raids or that they own everyone in arena / BG with their gear, hence is must be optimal. The far more likely conclusion is that the people they play with or against are terrible.
Topping DPS as an arcane mage at 70 is hardly a feat, and fact remains that I've proven beyond a reasonable doubt that you could make several improvements to your DPS - and furthermore that your suggestions to the BiS list are not valid. I hate to take on such a negative tone, but given the rather arrogant manner in which you present your own guesswork (here and in-game), while calling my Chardevs "BS", I don't see the point in gallantry.
Nesyla
Legend
Gotta agree with Satina, try to keep it polite people.
OP
OP
Justhealme
OG
The OP has received some minor corrections (mostly shoulder enchants). Optimal consumables are now listed in all Chardevs, and alternatives are provided for all unobtainable items. Everything should be up to date.
I intend to update these when 4.3 is released. Personally looking forward to the armor buff to Blood Presence (perhaps I'll finally be able to solo Moroes!), and an extra 5% strength for Unholy is always nice.
Destruction could wind up dealing ridiculous damage at 70 next patch, and the changes to Rets will bump them to a more reasonable level. For those of you wanting Battlemaster, you no longer need The Alterac Blitz for it. Yay 4.3!
I intend to update these when 4.3 is released. Personally looking forward to the armor buff to Blood Presence (perhaps I'll finally be able to solo Moroes!), and an extra 5% strength for Unholy is always nice.
Destruction could wind up dealing ridiculous damage at 70 next patch, and the changes to Rets will bump them to a more reasonable level. For those of you wanting Battlemaster, you no longer need The Alterac Blitz for it. Yay 4.3!
Spiritflow
Legend
If i remember BT correctly the other day on terron my dps and dmg war superior to yours
Even though you are my favorite finnish person EVER rottenflames dps is better then yours ^___^
Nesyla
Legend
If i remember BT correctly the other day on terron my dps and dmg war superior to yours
Even though you are my favorite finnish person EVER rottenflames dps is better then yours ^___^
Rotten's dps is quite amazing indeed.
Spiritflow
Legend
Yeah fine, leave me out. Rottenflame and me on dps dummy for 15min: 51% - 49% shifting between us!