How to balance 19's (final)

Would you rather see ALL of these changes or none of them at all?

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Kore nametooshort

OG
[This thread is now several patches out of date. The general ideas remain constant however]



This post is the culmination of feedback from many players regarding the imbalance of low levels in various areas. It includes problems we have found in low level questing, dungeoneering and pvp. Blizzard, you will be happy to learn that most of your pve content is fine, could use a couple tweaks, but we approve. It is pvp where the game seriously falls apart.



I am Kore nametooshort of TwinkInfo, the webs largest twink community and forum site, where I am a member of staff and i fully represent the community there. I am a guide author, guild leader and in every modesty an excellent theorycrafter. I have asked our community to provide feedback on low levels for Blizzard, and since we are twinkers this is our area of expertise. We have come up with a comprehensive list of imbalances within low level in both pve and pvp and have suggested solutions and given reasons and justifications for each solution.



The only agenda taken into account when designing these changes was to balance low levels in every area with zero impact on endgame. I have no ulterior motives other than providing comprehensive feedback on low level game play and improving it as such. I have endeavoured to remain truly objective when designing these suggestions and to this end I have played as many classes in this bracket as possible in the last month and have listened to as many players and their perspectives as possible, I have also played several twink classes for years. Please do not let the fact that we are twinks disillusion you from the fact that we really know what we are talking about. We are the players who play lowgame pvp the most and to its highest potential. We know the flaws and imbalances and wish to relay that feedback to you, Blizzard. To those of you who have preconceived notions of twinks being inferior players I would ask you to rethink them and keep an open mind, in fact there is one guild of twink players who are doing incredibly well in endgame rated BGs, within the top20 on EU. This goes to show that twinks are just as skillful as other players, so please do not let this fact prejudice you, in fact a recent poll conducted by Blizzard indicates that at least 7% of the player base enjoys twinking as a primary source of pvp entertainment.



Below you will find a web address that will take you to the discussion boards set up on twink info for the balancing discussion and that is where you will find the contributions of individuals and all of the feedback, you will also find a set of web addresses at the end of this thread where there is a very large amount of feedback. In this thread you will find the refined and finalised set of problems and solutions as interpreted by me.

http://www.twinkinfo...low-levels.html



I feel very passionately about this and a lot of work has gone into this and I will of course also be replying to any comments made in this thread or the counterpart on the official EU forums. If this thread is received well I am very willing to compile similar feedback for other brackets.



The bulk of this thread is in three parts. The first part is problems, second part is suggestions and the third part is justifications. Each solution is matched with a justification by number. It is preceded by a set of notes which the reader should take into account when reviewing the proposed changes. There is also a set of links and web addresses at the very end where you will find other feedback and relevant information.



Notes
  • These suggestions are balanced around each other. If one change were omitted it might affect the other changes. For instance if warriors did not gain intercept in the 19 bracket, then my druid suggestions would become unbalanced and that in turn would unbalance other classes, all this in addition to warriors remaining at a large disadvantage.
  • Each and every one of these changes was designed to balance lowgame while leaving endgame completely unaffected. Each change has should have zero impact on endgame; I have even tried to avoid negligible impact where possible. If any change (such as mana shield or intercept) has impacts on other brackets other than the 19's rest assured that I have analysed this and it will not impact the other brackets negatively at all, in fact those brackets often share problems with the 19 bracket so the changes are all beneficial
  • Many of these changes affect other brackets than 19's, that is intended. Many other brackets share common problems with 19's such as burst being too dominant, hunters being very over powered and rets hitting too hard but not having enough mobility. As such in every situation unless stated otherwise where i have stated that an ability should be rescaled at low level it should only scale back to its current value by level 60. Whether it is done bang on the dot of 60, or gradually from 50ish to 60 is at blizzards discretion.
  • High game (60+) seems relatively fine, but there are large non class issues such as grandfathered professions (engineering and first aid specifically).
  • The levels at which I have suggested abilities be learned are not 100% necessary, it is however very important that they stay within the battleground bracket levels they were suggested in, e.g. Intercept was suggested at level 14, so it should be learned between level 10 and 14. PvE specific spells (i.e. consecration, swipe and healing surge) should all be learned pre 15.
  • The changes to the amounts spells hit for are adjusted with respect to level 19s. This means that they need to be rebalanced similarly to how Ravage, Overpower and Ambush have been rescaled at low levels.
  • Pay particular attention to whether a suggestion says "base value" or not. It has a substantial effect.
  • I am mindful of the dangers of overbuffing or over nerfing, as such i have toned down several of the proposed changes to the scaling of abilities to make the buff or nerf have less of an impact than I feel that it should. It is better to underbuff than to overbuff.
  • There is not a single item on this list that I have not personally investigated

Problems



General
  • PvP is far too bursty, many orders of magnitude too high.
  • Many crucial spell components are included in major glyphs, without them many spells like Swiftmend, Thunderstorm and Maul are less effective than they should be. E.g. without smend glyph a druid has to wait 3 seconds after casting smend to cast rejuvenation in order to be efficient, otherwise he has to waste the majority of a rejuv on his next smend or cast regrowth. Neither attractive if the direct healing of RG is not needed
  • BoA items, especially weapons, are too powerful. BoAs should be attractive for their exp gain, not their stats. The disparity between quest flow gear and BoA gear is too large
  • Quest flow gear is just awful. Levelers who want to pvp are at a severe disadvantage
  • Resistance scales far too well and is uncounterable, this leaves many casters frustrated by the lack of reliability of their spells
  • 5minute CD on pvp trinkets is outdated and is far too long. Levelers are unlikely to be coordinated enough to make do with this length trinket and as twinks we suffer due to lack of dispel mechanics.
  • Queue times are far too long at the moment
  • There is a large inbalance between the abilites of each healer class
  • The pve rotation of each dps spec (in equal gear) vary a very large amount, some specs do over twice as much dps as other dps specs









    Classes

    Druid
  • Feral have a distinct lack of burst, the only burst the could be said to have requires alot of preparation and sacrificing energy before and after to setup and recover from it. This is not a viable burst source in most situations
  • Feral lacks utility. They took a heavy nerf to powershifting and with the loss of healing touch their instant healing utility took a heavy hit too. When playing a feral it often feels like you are simply a glorified pet since they have little utility and all they do is simply sit on a target and hope it doesnt heal
  • Balance is heavily reliant on long cast times and it doesnt have the tools as a spec to deal with this at this level
  • Balance burst is too high, an eclipsed starsurge can nigh on one shot an opponent
  • Regrowth is too expensive and too small to be of use in many scenarios. It is far far inferior to the equivalent of other healers due to missing out on key talents in the resto tree
  • Restos have to gimp their rotation to be efficient. Without glyph of swiftmend a druid has to either leave a target without a rejuv on him for 3 seconds in order to not waste mana reapplying rejuv for the next swiftmend or apply a potentially wasteful regrowth in order to consume that instead
  • Restos and balance both lack tools to deal with melee while being able to continue doing their job. If a melee gets on a druid he either risks being locked out of the nature school by casting a root or wasting precious seconds running away in travel form.







    Hunter
  • Explosive shot hits far too hard, in addition to this their damage is an order of magnitude higher than other damage sources in the bracket
  • Their gap making abilities are well ahead of that of the gap closing abilities of almost all melee classes in the bracket
  • Utility is too high. A hunter can have as many as 4 stuns (if engineer) or disorientates aswell as two very reliable and powerful snares
  • Their pets die very easily







    Mage
  • Counterspell is too powerful for the bracket, the lock out period is significantly longer than that of any interrupt in the bracket and is often game breaking in any situation where it is effectively used. The blanket silence is also too powerful in the bracket
  • Mages are very squishy, when they take damage they feel it hard. They have little defense against ranged attackers
  • Pyroblast is useless, it is not useful in any situation and lack of a proper specialisation hurts fire spec at low levels. Fire mages are rare to the point of extinction
  • Fire mages lack mobile dps and control







    Paladin
  • Protection paladins have no AoE below level 20. This makes early tanking a problem since it makes maintaining threat on large packs difficult
  • Time on target for retribution and protection is very difficult to achieve, however when they do get there they hit substantially too hard
  • Exorcism hits too hard in any spec, it should not be a staple source of dps for a ret or prot paladin to stand and cast exorcism
  • Prot is too powerful. They produce too much damage and along with their multi target blanket silence, long stun, excellent survivability and powerful heals they have a combo which should not be ingame.
  • Flash of light is far too powerful in any spec. Its gives melee paladins survivability which they are not due and holy superior healing to other healers
  • Holy paladins lack escape mechanisms and beyond their heal and stun they lack utility that is transferable to the rest of the team







    Priest
  • Penance hits far too hard. Levelers and mobs often get one shotted by it and it has made shadow pretty much obsolete
  • Shadow dps is pathetic, it is below every tank spec and below disc dps and it does not have any burst
  • PW:S is too powerful in the bracket. The buff it took at endgame makes it absorb substantially too much at lowgame
  • Flash heal is too strong, not in the same magnitude as FoL, but still imbalanced







    Rogue
  • Once a rogue has opened on a target it lacks dps. This is because sub dps is low, but no other specs are viable due to time on target issues. Sub ToT is pretty much perfect
  • Rogues feel they have little control over sources of their dps







    Shaman
  • Survivability is low, they have very few and limited tools to deal with incoming damage and drop too easily if made a kill target
  • Elemental is reliant on long cast times and yet have few and limited tools to allow them the time to cast. Thunderstorms cooldown is too long for it to be an effective tool for elemental
  • Time on target for enhancement is an issue. Without instant ghostwolf or a reliable snare they can easily be shaken off their target
  • Purge is very overpowered against priest and druid healers since dispel mechanics such as lifebloom do not exist.
  • Restoration shaman have a very difficult time in both battlegrounds and dungeons. Their repertoire is incredibly limited and is entirely reliant on a single tank taking low, regular damage. If any party member takes high damage they are in big trouble. They cannot target switch heal targets







    Warlock
  • Similarly to mages and shaman, warlocks lack any tools or mitigation to deal with incoming damage
  • Warlock pets die too easily, especially with soul link







    Warrior
  • Time on target is a huge issue here. If they get combat flagged before they get a charge off then the battle is almost inevitably already lost. If an opponent removes their snare then they will often find it nigh on impossible to reapply it
  • Lack of hamstring forces warriors into fury spec for piercing howl
  • Warriors lack utility against melee attackers
  • Damage in every spec is too high
  • Arms rotation is terrible, often the player has to wait 4.5 seconds in between Mortal Strikes
  • Similarly to protection paladins, prot wars have too much survivability and damage output

Suggestions

General

  1. Players now have a permanent hidden buff at all times when below level 60. Any player level 59 or below now takes 20% less damage from all players and pets
  2. Make the first major and minor (not prime) glyphs learned at level 15, all other glyph slots are not changed.
  3. Reduce the stats of ALL heirloom items by the equivalent of two or three ilevels. This will give non heirloomers an advantage over heirloom heroes reducing the gear difference between them. Heirloom weapons should be have particular attention paid to. Non heirloom caster weapons are in dire need of a sp buff. The difference here is too huge to ignore.
  4. Buff many of the rewards of leveling flow quests to superior quality. This will reduce the difference between heirloom heroes and semi twinks and levelers by only buffing the underdogs. This will make pvp more balanced and competitive. Also you could introduce enchant scrolls into quest rewards. They would not be near the quality of topend enchants but this would help casual levelers breach the gear gap once more.
  5. Make resistance rating give zero resist chance below level 60
  6. Reduce the cooldown of all pvp trinkets to 2 minutes
  7. Give back arena skirmishes







    Druid
  8. Ravage is now learned at level 16
  9. Skull Bash is now learned at level 18
  10. Insect Swarm is now learned at level 18
  11. The direct damage of Starfire, Starsurge and Wrath has been reduced by 15% at level 19
  12. Nature's Grasp is now learned at level 14 but does not have 3 charges at this level. It will get more charges at higher levels. It will only have one charge at level 19.
  13. The direct component of regrowth at level 19 has been increase by 20% (so it heals for roughly 300 on a BiS twink). The heal over time component remains unchanged. This ability should scale back to normal gradually from level 40 till level 50.







    Hunter
  14. Hunters learn a skill at level 60 which allows them to autoshoot while moving (re: 4.0.6 change) to prevent hunters gaining an unnecessary buff in 4.0.6
  15. Scattershot is now learned at level 26
  16. Concussive Shot is now learned at level 20
  17. Ranged weapon damage reduced by 10%
  18. The damage of Explosive Shot has been reduced by 30%
  19. Increase the health of all hunter pets by 20% below level 30 scaling back to normal by level 40
  20. Aimed Shot now scales with 150% weapon damage and 50% RAP







    Mage
  21. Counterspell is now learned at level 20
  22. Pyroblast is no longer the specialisation ability of the fire talent tree, it is replaced by blastwave. Pyroblast will take its place in the talent tree
  23. Scorch is now learned at level 10
  24. Mana Shield is now learned at level 12
  25. Increase the health of all mage pets by 20% below level 30 scaling back to normal by level 40







    Paladin
  26. Consecration is now learned at level 15
  27. Hand of Freedom is now learned at level 8
  28. The base damage of exorcism has been lowered by 50% at level 19
  29. Templar's Verdict now scales with 30/70/180% weapon damage below level 60
  30. Crusader Strike now scales with 95% weapon damage below level 60
  31. The base damage of Avengers Shield has been reduced by 60%. This ability should scale back to normal gradually from level 40 till level 50.
  32. The amount healed by Protector of the Innocent is reduced by 30% (as in the 4.0.6 patch notes)
  33. The healing done by Flash of Light has been decreased by 33% (so that it heals for roughly 350 on a fully BiS Holy twink) This ability should scale back to normal gradually from level 30 till level 40.







    Priest
  34. The base damage of penance has been lowered by 40%
  35. The damage of the direct portion of Holy Fire has been reduced by 30%
  36. The damage of Mind Blast has been increased by 40% (scaling back to normal by level 40)
  37. The damage of Shadow Word: Pain has been increased by 20% (scaling back to normal by level 40)
  38. The damage of Mind Flay has been increased by 20% (scaling back to normal by level 40)
  39. The healing of Flash Heal has been reduced by 30% (so that it heals for roughly 300 on a fully BiS twink). This ability should scale back to normal gradually from level 30 till level 40
  40. The amount PW:S absorbs has been reduced by 60% and its mana cost by 20%







    Rogue
  41. Sinister Strike Damage has been increased by 35%
  42. Eviscerate damage has been increased by 10%. This ability should scale back to normal gradually from level 40 till level 50







    Shaman
  43. Healing Surge is now learned at level 10, however its heal at level 19 is reduced by 35% (so that it heals for roughly 300 on a fully BiS resto twink). This ability should scale back to normal gradually from level 25 till level 35.
  44. Frostbrand Weapon is now learned at level 16
  45. Earth Shield is no longer the specialisation ability for the restoration talent tree, it is replaced by Riptide. Earth Shield will take it's place in the talent tree.







    Warlock
  46. Soul Link is now learned at level 10
  47. Sacrifice is now learned at level 16
  48. Increase the health of all warlock pets by 20% below level 30 scaling back to normal by level 40







    Warrior
  49. Hamstring is now learned at level 8
  50. Berserker Stance is now learned at level 14
  51. Intercept is now learned at level 14
  52. Disarm is now learned at level 18
  53. Sunder Armour is now learned at level 26
  54. Mortal strike now hits for 100% weapon damage
  55. Overpower is now learned at level 18
  56. *New* Arms now has a new part to its specialisation "Whenever your Rend ability causes damage, you have a 40% chance of allowing the use of Overpower for 9 sec. This effect will not occur more than once every 5 sec." The talent taste for blood would then have its Overpower proc chance portion changed to an additional 0/30/60% chance.
  57. The damage of Bloodthirst has been reduced by 20%. This ability should scale back to normal gradually from level 40 till level 50.
  58. The damage of Shield Slam has been reduced by 15%





Justifications

General
  1. This would be a significant increase to survivability, however i feel that it is fully justified. At the moment it is very difficult to go to any major WoW forum board and not see complaints from low level players about being one shotted by other players. I myself have experienced this from both sides of the fence. Giving a buff of this magnitude would allow players to make use of their new abilities in PvP, allow them to have more fun and hopefully convince them that pvp is a viable pursuit in WoW. It will give a less fast paced and RNG reliant environment for them to hone their skills in and for them to have fun. This lack of survivability is not only apparent in the low gear environment of levelling battlegrounds, perfect twinks experience it too. You may think that 20% is too high, but you need to realise just how bursty low game battlegrounds are. It is not uncommon for a single semi twinked heirloom hero to be able to decimate a group of levellers with ease barely having to use more than 2 or 3 globals. There is no player that I have spoken to that doesn't agree
  2. This system worked fine in WotLK, so i see no reason why it shouldnt here. Many abilities rely on their glyph to allow them to work to their full potential and with out them the abilities become gimped. Examples in this bracket are Swiftmend, Maul, Thunderstorm and others. Prime glyphs should not be implemented because they would upset the balance in the bracket, however there are very few unbalanced major glyphs and i have tailored my suggestions with them in mind
  3. Heirloom heroes currently have a very substantial advantage over quest flow levellers. This is because the heirlooms have superior stats to the same level equivalent blue items, in addition to this the heirlooms are more attractive to enchant, thus the heirloom heroes get an even bigger advantage. Reducing the stats on heirlooms would bring the heroes total stats closer to that of quest flow gear reducing the gear difference between the players resulting in a more balanced playing field. Particular attention should be paid to weapons, their are significantly better than the same level equivalent, especially caster weapons. The heirloom weapons should be scaled back and spell power needs to be added to the non heirloom caster weapons because at the moment they are vastly inferior to the heirlooms and increasing the spell power would make them as important at low game as they are at level 70+. For example, the heirloom staff at 19 has 6int 6crit, 10 stamina and a whopping 39 spell power; the next best rare quality item has 6int, 6crit, 6stamina but zero spell power, leaving non heirloomers at an obvious and very significant disadvatage. That 39 spell power is a vast amount in comparison to their current value of sp. It is my strong belief that heirlooms should be solely attractive for the benefits to experience gain, not to stats, i also dislike the way they make everyone look the same
  4. Quest flow gear is terrible, especially at low levels. This means if a player wishes to pvp he needs to have heirlooms and buy enchants for his quest flow gear. This dissuades players from casually PvPing during the levelling process which has detrimental effects on new players and old players and disillusions them from PvP's attractivity. Increasing the number of rare quality items would buff both levellers and the semi twinks, but would be a larger buff to the levellers than to the semitwinks/heroes
  5. It is impossible to counter resistance at low levels and this makes certain items like Keeshan's Bandana and many racial abilites imbalanced, having detrimental effects on the bracket. It is also far too strong and easy to obtain. Rescaling resistance would not be effective enough i feel, since it would still be uncounterable and would have game breaking consequences. An example of how absurd it is, my druid has 40% nature resistance without even trying, simply the racial and one cheap cloak enchant. My mage has a similar amount of arcane resistance and about 27% fire resistance due to racials and a sub par helm. This breaks casters
  6. This would make the human racial less unbalanced and would give every character more control. It would be well balanced with a 2 min CD, there is no reason to not change this. Low game often lacks tools such as fear immunity spells, heroic fury and defensive dispels making CC even more of an issue. There is no player that I have spoken to that doesn't agree
  7. These changes would balance the bracket making them more appealing to new players, the fix to multi BG queuing should help a small amount, however these won't be enough. Give back arena skirmishes. I will not repeat the arguments for them at endgame because doubtless blizz has heard them, but at lowgame it will give players something to do inbetween battleground pops meaning that players won't hang about for 20 mins bored and then leave, they will stick about playing arena until the pop and stay content meaning more will be online meaning more BG pops







    Druid
  8. This will make feral druids' stealth actually useful and will give them the burst they need. Even with 2 points in predatory strikes it would not be overpowered, i calculate that in its current state it would hit for less than a standard rogues ambush if the feral were in attack power stacked gear meaning it is generally weaker than a rogues ambush and this ensures it remains balanced while giving ferals the necessary burst
  9. With the change to a druid's powershifting capability druids need some way to compensate. Skull bash fits this perfectly, giving feral druids a way to catch up quickly in emergency situations but since its cool down will still be substantial it will not be abusable, thus balanced. Skull bash also works well for giving ferals the utility they need, since a well timed skull bash will make the feral feel more useful, but again the cooldown will prevent it becoming unbalanced. Maim would also be an interesting ability to give and would make ferals concentrate on their combo points more than spamming mangle and rake on multiple targets.
  10. Balance druid dps is very reliant on long casts and they have few tools allowing them to use these casts properly. They find it difficult to produce damage when under pressure or forced to move. Insect swarm will both accommodate this and compensate for the dps loss of nerfing direct burst
  11. Due to stealth casts and starsurge, balance druid burst is too high, this will also compensate for the dps increase of insect swarm
  12. Nature's Grasp was previously available in the 19 bracket and druid play has suffered as a result of its removal. With my suggested changes to mobility in the bracket druids will need more abilites to compensate. However, three charges it has been argued is too much. Without defensive dispels in the bracket this offers the druid too much power over melee classes. 3 charges is unbalanced, but so is having no Nature's Grasp at all. 1 charge is just right
  13. Its heal value is atrociously low, it is nigh on unusable in most situations. With the removal of Healing Touch from the bracket in 4.0.6 this will be a resto druid's go-to heal for large throughput, thus it needs to be on a par with the other similar heals in the bracket. This will not make the spell overpowered for any spec since its heal will still be lower than other heals, while its mana cost remains substantially higher. This is to compensate for the large heal that resto druids have in swiftmend







    Hunter
  14. This is a buff too far for low level hunters, it exacerbates the brackets imbalance. This simply cannot be allowed to remain in low level battlegrounds. Hunters are the over powered class below level 60, this buff is outrageous
  15. With up to three other stuns this is certainly not needed and gives too much control to hunters. This will make them have to use their remaining cool downs with discretion in order to escape melee which they will still be able to do
  16. Having a very reliable and easily applied snare at range meant that paladins and warriors have a tough time catching up with hunters. Leaving them with just Wing Clip leaves them with a strong snare, but gives melee the ability to regain ground, levelling the odds on the fight
  17. Hunter damage is simply too high, they can out damage every healer in similar gear, this is unacceptable. There is no other way to effectively reduce hunter damage at low levels without removing key elements of hunter play and dumbing down their rotation to that of a vanilla paladin. This change would have zero impact on any other aspect of WoW and is the perfect solution to BM and MM hunter damage. Surv is still too high, hence the next point
  18. Explosive shot is the main culprit of the hunter damage problem. It hits incredibly hard on a short cooldown. A substantial nerf to it is required, 20% satisfied that
  19. Hunter pets were dying to the slightest breath of burst, this makes them unreliable, and hunters will need their pets if the other changes go ahead
  20. Its burst is far too high and considering the buffs it is receiving in 4.0.6 it will become even more unbalanced. It can one shot players







    Mage
  21. The 19 bracket is burst orientated, counterspell's lock out period is too long for the bracket since during that period the healer can do nothing but watch himself or his charge die. Other, shorter interrupts are more acceptable and balanced since an element of skill is required on the part of both the mage and the healer to ensure it goes their way (fake casting etc), but the long lock out period put this into the mages favour too much and the silence of an arcane mage put this almost entirely in the mages favour. It also unbalances mages against other casters since in the period that the other caster was locked out the mage will have gained a huge damage margin over the other caster resulting in the mage winning in almost every encounter. These advantages make counterspell a game winning ability for the mage in most situations where it is effectively used. Mages do not need counterspell to be successful or effective thus it should go. Edit: A better solution would be to reduce it's lock out time if possible.
  22. Pyroblast is useless, no fire mage should use it without hotstreak, which isnt available until level 29. Blastwave is much more useful and gives fire mages the control they need. With this change they will have the tools they need to be balanced against melee
  23. Fireball takes too long to cast in a battleground, scorch allows fire mages to remain as mobile as possible while still producing damage
  24. This will allow mages to soak up more damage before they die. It will not produce mana problems for the mage since mages are relatively efficient and have evocation, regardless it is a survivability buff nontheless. It will not produce too much survivability due to the cooldown and the fact that it can only soak up a finite amount of damage
  25. The water elemental is crucial part of frost mage game play. It shouldn't die so easily







    Paladin
  26. All tanks should be able to tank effectively from the moment they are able to queue using the LFG system at level 15. This means that 20 is too high to start learning AoE moves. It has been suggested to me that Righteous Defense be introduced instead which could be appealing
  27. Hand of Freedom is integral to all paladin PvP. It has suffered greatly as a result of its removal since the shattering
  28. Prot and ret paladins should not find casting exorcism a suitable damage source. Paladin healers are not offensive healers and their game will not suffer as a result. In its current state exorcism in any spec is hitting harder per second than fireball, which is certainly not balanced. This is a big nerf but every paladin in the bracket i have consulted agrees that it needs a heavy nerf
  29. Retribution was hitting far far too hard and Templar's Verdict was the culprit. The burst it produced when used with 3 holy power can often one shot a same geared player. Also, ret damage output is directly proportional to their mobility, and since their mobility is increasing their damage needs to decrease to compensate
  30. A standard nerf to both prot and ret. This combined with the TV nerf will reduce ret paladin dps to a more acceptable level
  31. Prot paladins are hitting too hard as i said before. This nerf to AS along with Crusader Strike will reduce it to more appropriate levels
  32. Paladins shouldn't be able to simply forget their own health bar. PTI is a lovely mechanic and gives paladins the target switching ability which makes them great, but as it is it is too powerful
  33. Flash of Light is immensely over powered, it gives ret and prot too much survivability and its impact and efficiency as Holy is very unbalanced. A nerf of this magnitude is warranted to make them less overpowered and more balanced in respect to other healers







    Priest
  34. It is very over powered, it one shots mobs and causes the same effect in players. It is too powerful even for a historically offensive healer
  35. For the same reason as penance holy fire also needs a nerf. It also needs to be nerfed to compensate for the buff to Mind Blast
  36. Shadow completely lacks burst and is low on dps too. A large buff to Mind Blast will help fix both these problems
  37. This will help re-establish shadow as a DoT spec and will increase its dps to acceptable levels
  38. This wil help increase shadow dps to acceptable levels and it is logical that a staple spell for the spec is attractive enough to use
  39. This will put it into the same league as other healers flash heals. It will be lower than Healing Surge and Flash of Light to allow for the burst healing that priests can produce with PW:S, desperate prayer and penance
  40. PW:S was about right in 4.0.3, but now in 4.0.6 it has lost its niche and is healing for more than a Flash Heal. Reducing mana and heal amount will fix this iconic spell







    Rogue
  41. Rogue dps is low, this will boost it to more appropriate levels keeping their burst potential in mind
  42. For the same reason as Sinister Strike should be buffed Eviscerate also needs a buff in order to boost dps and to make it relatively attractive when compared to the new sinister strike







    Shaman
  43. Shaman healers are currently non existent due to their lack of abilities to cope with heavy damage. Introducing Healing Surge will fix this and will also give enhance and elemental the survivability they are in need of. It should heal this value since it is relatively cheap for a flash heal so it's effectiveness needs to be scaled down in comparison to Flash of Light to keep it balanced. Also with my change to Riptide additional burst healing is available with a HS->riptide combo
  44. Frostbrand will allow enhancement shaman to stick to their target effectively enough. It is an RNG applied snare and since enhancement has no gap closing cooldowns it should still be possible to shake them off long enough through use of the shaman's enemies cooldowns. The shaman will then have to cast (at least 1sec) ghostwolf to regain distance, so if anything this will keep shaman underpowered rather than overpowered. This change won't affect elemental or resto shaman heavily. They will have to choose between this or flametongue weapon for a start and then actually hit the target for it to apply. If the ele/resto shaman did choose to use it it would simply be another tool in their limited arsenal for escaping, perfectly acceptable
  45. Earth Shield is not a versatile enough ability to allow shaman to heal effectively in every situation. Since it can only be applied to one target it mitigates a shamans effectiveness in group situations. Riptide would fill this role perfectly in its current form (on a fully BiS twink it would heal 180 direct with 280/12secs) and is equivalent to holy shock and word of glory, rejuv and swiftmend and PW:S and renew. I think that it would be perfectly balanced







    Warlock
  46. This static damage reduction will give warlocks breathing space and time to cast fear etc and be a useful part of a group. It will also require the warlock to take active care of its demon
  47. Soul Link on its own however won't be enough, it doesnt allow the warlock to react and the damage has still been taken, just by the demon instead. Sacrifice gives the warlock a panic button allowing time for a fear cast or an incoming heal or whathaveyou
  48. Warlock pets are a crucial part of their game play. They shouldn't die so easily. This change is especially relevant given soul link







    Warrior
  49. Hamstring is integral to warrior pvp, without it they flounder and are pigeon holed into fury spec. Given hamstring warriors will be able to use their other specs to their deserved potential
  50. Berserker Stance is necessary for Intercept
  51. Without intercept or juggernaut warriors have no way to regain distance once they have lost it. It is an utterly necessary cooldown for warrior pvp and fits perfectly with my other mobility suggestions for other classes
  52. Disarm gives utility against melee and adds a unique, yet balanced, mechanic to the bracket. It will make warrior play feel less wooden and will give another button to press
  53. Sunder Armour is rarely used, it takes too much rage and mobs and players die too quickly for it to be worthwhile. Removing it from the bracket means new players aren't so confused by too many abilities and it means that new abilities can take its spot, such as disarm
  54. Mortal strike now hits too hard, there are complaints about levellers being globaled by it and it have seen its effects myself on my warrior. Reducing it both lowers arms burst and opens the door for overpower making the arms spec more enjoyable to play
  55. Overpower is another button to push making the arms rotation less dull (keep in mind that it is only 77% at low level)
  56. This mechanic is tried and tested at endgame and is as crucial to arms warrior rotations as hamstring is to pvp. This will give low warriors that mechanic and make the spec more enjoyable and the rotation less clunky and boring
  57. Fury simply hits too hard. Along with the heroic strike nerf this will lower them to a more acceptable level
  58. The damage of prot is too high, its attractiveness should be in its survivability and utility, thus its damage needs to be lowered. This and the heroic strike nerf will fix that



Links

For all links, please click here to be directed to a post later in this thread with the links on. These links show demand for this sort of balancing and show the feedback I have worked with in compiling this including posts from both TI and other forums.
 
Capitalize "make" for number 6.



#16 and #24 are bad changes. 16 should be replaced with Disengage. Also, maybe mention something about having all Hunter pet abilities raised to level 20 since they raised the majority of them already.
 
I agree with everything you said. I think all DPS need to be doing roughly the same damage while having 1-2 *special* abilities with long cooldowns.



I also think healers need

a Big Heal with a 3 second cast (heals for 500)

a Flash Heal with a 1.5 second cast (heals for ~250) but costs more mana.

a Special Heal= Druids-HoT, Pallies-Small Group Heal??, Priests- Bubble, Shammy- A buff that heals them for X whenever they get hit. Lasting for X seconds???



I ALSO think whatever Blizzard does they CANNOT nerf Hunters and Paladins and whatver else is OP right now to the ground! Thats the biggest problem whenever they nerf something, They go from one extreme to another! Look at rogues a few months ago, they where ruling WSG critting upwards of 1k on ambush now they crit 400 BiS then they cant do shit except sap lol.



I also think mages are fine! They are not to squishing they tear me up! Arcane blast critting for a shit ton with a 4 seconds CD?? They have frost nova and blink to get away so they should get stomped if they get to close. I think they need to be nerfed dps wise.



I sont know my opinion on glyphs honestly i say screw them and just nerf the talents.



My biggest thing I want done is BOA gear! Please make it BOLD when you post it(if you do)!!!!! We MUST not have BOA gear being so OP.

It straights ruins the game. I have an 84 and I HATE everything about it. Let alone running dungeon? Give me a break the day I get off my twinks is the day i quit WoW. Why do i need to farm BOA gear when i dont want to level? I say make it have green item level ORRRRRRRR just fucking delete every piece in the game! Guild perks are OP as shit and you can have 0/3000 rep with your guild and get the perks! Why do people get so excited over BOA cloaks and helms? I LOVE TO STAND OUT AND LOOK DIFFERENT AND UNIQUE!



Why would you want a fucking exact gear set as someone else???????

-helm

-cloak

-shoulders

-chest

-weapons

-rings



AND THEIR PUTTING IN MORE?? NO. Like i said make them green item level so i neevr have to put another fucking piece on!



Sorry for ranting on BOA but it ruins twinking AND i can never play in different guilds because I'll feel to gimped without it!!



Overall you're doing a great job and i fully support this! Glad you take such responsibility!



Thanks Kore
 
Looks good, a lot of nerfs though for most classes



Only thing that i would suggest is instead of making concussive shot at lvl 26, their should be a decent cooldown ( dont remember whats the cd atm) like maybe it slows you for 3-4 seconds and has a CD of 10-12 seconds. Same thing for scatter shot, the cd should be something like 1 minute .
 
Your mage suggestions are ridiculous and does not correlate with how squishy mages are in this bracket (you even mentioned it yourself). Nova is the ONLY defence a mage has against melee when blink is on cd, making it level 20 would be stupid. Also "Frost has too many snares" is an incorrect statement. Frost has 2 snares which DR's each other, how is that too many, considering its the only defence a mage has against melee when blink is on cd? If you want nova gone, then shs and charge should go to make up for it. Which in turn would just lower the skillcap even more. Mages are fine except for low survivability and the 4 second blanket cs, however that can't be changed as it is a first tier talent and removing cs completely from 19 would be retarded.



edit: apart from that post looks good.
 
Personally the only change that needs to be made to warriors is that they need hamstring. Nothing else is needed, just hamstring. Any other changes would actually make them too OP.
 
A Rogue's dmg atm actually is good, but they don't have enough ToT... so you're doing it wrong, put a ToT ability for lower lvls, and give Sinister Strike a slight buff. Eviscerate dmg is alright afaik. And, I think the Bloodthirst nerf was a little too strong, can't be nerfed by more than 30% imo.

BUT; with that being said, the rest looks good.

Disclaimer: I didn't read it thoroughly, but these were the things I noticed.
 
Your changes to ferals would make them OP. I don't know what ferals you see, but they hit for truckloads, and their DoTs are insane. Adding a gap-closing interrupt, an ambush, and nature's grasp would be an insane buff to them, they'd be dominating the bracket. Essentially they would be able to open for what I'm assuming would be ambush like damage, apply dots that tick for over 200s, and still keep their OP finisher -> 800-1.2k ferocious bite crits, while GAINING an interrupt/gap closer and CC. Skull-bash would be too much, ravage is pushing it.
 
rogue damage is fine, mobility could perhaps need tweaking, but tbh 2 min trinkets would sort it. assass and combat has the same problems at top levels, low mobility but high damage, while sub has higher mobility but low damage.
 
I'd like to ask, if all of these changes went through would it really balance the bracket? What's to say that this wouldn't just further unbalance everything? Personally it seems like too many changes to make at one time.
 
cinderblok said:
I'd like to ask, if all of these changes went through would it really balance the bracket? What's to say that this wouldn't just further unbalance everything? Personally it seems like too many changes to make at one time.
Click to expand...



Idd. A flat 30% dmg reduction to everything seems to be pretty much enough, coupled with minor tweaks to hunter damage and reduction of healing throughput of some classes (paladins, priests).



Also lol'd at warrior changes - this just proves how bad it could go if the average player always had his say.
 
I agree with it. I also think there should be one on balancing out boa in twink BG's. nowadays it is extremely hard to twink without boa.

More non BOA peices of gear should give hit rating
 
overall good work. sliigtly too much dmg reduction on the warriors.. even with added gap closers, idk.. this would just be too much :S..

also, i disagree with the removal of counterspell & frost nova. CS isn't that good, in fact. its almost exactly the time it takes for the GCD to wear off, and then cast a fireball, is this so bad?.. i mean sure, 4 seconds might seem like much, but in the big picture, i find that it isn't as effective, being the mage, as you make it out to be. (i know, i'm ranting to protect my class, sue me :S)

also, frost nova is the LEAST effective spell ever. what you're failing to think about is, that frost nova HAS to be used in conjuction with blink, or its useless, and even after a blink and WITH the debuff, you can make it to the mage in 1 frostball + a fire blast.. that ain't too bad..
 
I don't agree with your warrior nerfs, but like the idea of berserker stance. Like Pizza's comment about hunters, also the one about the increase cd on concussive shot.
 
4 words, Not going to happen
 
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