How much versatility is too much?

Cattywompus

Cattywompus

Veteran
Good afternoon all! I am a new to the level 20 bracket, and I see everyone is super heavy on vers. I have a fresh hunter with 19% crit, 16% vers, 6% haste, and about 140 agi and 1600 hp. I see some people get in the low 20's for vers, mostly druids, but how much is enough? When would you take haste and crit over vers? The reason I am asking is because I have a fresh shadow priest at 20, and a rogue and warrior on the way, and I don't want to overdo the versatility if it's really not all its hyped up to be! Let me know what you guys think! Thank you in advance!

Cattywompus.
 
Well at this level vers beats everything other than main stat for most classes
Its an all in one damage boost, damage taken reduction and healing boost.
The other stats werent like they used to be in previous expansions, where stacking them to meaningful levels (>30%) was easy
 
Like most things, it depends.

As a general rule, though, I'd rarely (never?) take vers over a primary stat. Well, maybe engineering goggles on a vet. Anyway... we lose a good chunk of secondaries when we scale up to 29 in BGs but we dont lose primary stats.

But in terms of vers over other secondaries? Yea, I prefer it. Crit gets scaled down in instanced pvp (150%) and the majority of my skills and abilities are instant. Even on a resto druid, where haste is really nice generally. Nobody is getting to the end of a rejuv (where the haste benefit is gained) in combat. Im either refreshing it, the fight ends or they die. Stronger immediate ticks > overheal.

Vers is just really good. Flat increases to output and reductions to intake are really hard to argue with. We'll go back and forth on these forums all day about haste build vs crit build for various classes but thats generally because vers is seen as a given.
 
Chops said:
Like most things, it depends.

As a general rule, though, I'd rarely (never?) take vers over a primary stat. Well, maybe engineering goggles on a vet. Anyway... we lose a good chunk of secondaries when we scale up to 29 in BGs but we dont lose primary stats.

But in terms of vers over other secondaries? Yea, I prefer it. Crit gets scaled down in instanced pvp (150%) and the majority of my skills and abilities are instant. Even on a resto druid, where haste is really nice generally. Nobody is getting to the end of a rejuv (where the haste benefit is gained) in combat. Im either refreshing it, the fight ends or they die. Stronger immediate ticks > overheal.

Vers is just really good. Flat increases to output and reductions to intake are really hard to argue with. We'll go back and forth on these forums all day about haste build vs crit build for various classes but thats generally because vers is seen as a given.
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Awesome, man! Thank you! I think keeping a decent crit chance is probably ideal as well? And the primary stat thing totally slipped my mind that you scale to 29 from 20. Duhhh!
 
Chops said:
Have enough haste to get bloodthirst to a 4 second CD, then stack vers
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Also worth noting, that vers will synergize well with crusader procs whereas straight strength does nothing to that.

It's always there tho, when crusader is or isnt… so always prioritize main stat IMO. But it can be close between them.

Quick screenie of my BoA shoulders with inscription and my dungeon satchel shoulders without:
upload_2019-3-25_22-8-51.png


So clearly the 7 str BoA would be "better" but the actual tooltip damage between the two ranged from 0 to 3 points.

Someone can correct me if i'm wrong, but when crusader procs ---> the vers should impact that as well. And double crusader procs. However many you manage. So instead of static 2 points of strength, the vers can give 0.5% increase to that 100-200+ extra strength on those procs... plus being almost negligible in difference to begin with.

Honestly tho, the values are so minimal it wont be very different unless you do something really wrong. It's only a few points. The key is to compare your gear and decide for yourself what you want and enjoy most. Have fun! ;)

(also, those pics are at 20... vers will degrade a bit due to leveling to 29, and the chant should scale. Test and decide.)
[doublepost=1553566919,1553566591][/doublepost]
Cattywompus said:
What about outlaw rogue?
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I haven't checked to be certain, but vers should affect your ele force enchant? That might be off... but agility wont.

Still tho, agi is strongest overall. Don't skimp on it.
 
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Stacking Vers is for cuckholds who know they are going to take a beating and like it.

Stack Crit and Stam for your hunter.

If youre twinking right you should get vers from campfires and consumables.

I would only stack verse if you are building a FC capping toon. Then movement enchants and Verse

Fights are so fast you want successive crits to close the gaps.

Any group fight your stats wont matter its about teamplay at that point
 
the rule ive been going by is find your haste breakpoint. whether thats 1.3 second healing surge, 1.4 second flash of light on ret, 4 sec cd on fury stuff etc. after that then try to get as much verse/mainstat as possible without sacrificing too much crit/stam
 
Warglave said:
Also worth noting, that vers will synergize well with crusader procs whereas straight strength does nothing to that.

It's always there tho, when crusader is or isnt… so always prioritize main stat IMO. But it can be close between them.

Quick screenie of my BoA shoulders with inscription and my dungeon satchel shoulders without:
View attachment 10976

So clearly the 7 str BoA would be "better" but the actual tooltip damage between the two ranged from 0 to 3 points.

Someone can correct me if i'm wrong, but when crusader procs ---> the vers should impact that as well. And double crusader procs. However many you manage. So instead of static 2 points of strength, the vers can give 0.5% increase to that 100-200+ extra strength on those procs... plus being almost negligible in difference to begin with.

Honestly tho, the values are so minimal it wont be very different unless you do something really wrong. It's only a few points. The key is to compare your gear and decide for yourself what you want and enjoy most. Have fun! ;)

(also, those pics are at 20... vers will degrade a bit due to leveling to 29, and the chant should scale. Test and decide.)
[doublepost=1553566919,1553566591][/doublepost]

I haven't checked to be certain, but vers should affect your ele force enchant? That might be off... but agility wont.

Still tho, agi is strongest overall. Don't skimp on it.
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So do boa's scale to 29 in the bg on your level 20 character? I've never twinked at 20, always 19, 29, etc.
 
Neon said:
Never been a fan of haste.
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Me neither, but I do like it for fury. Maybe outlaw... haven't checked yet. There's so little going on ability-wise in this bracket that I appreciate getting the extra attacks and shorter GCD it offers. Seems a good way to go.

Cattywompus said:
So do boa's scale to 29 in the bg on your level 20 character?
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Nope. I asked the same thing last week myself. Just the enchants change when you're bumped to 29.

(which is nice, cuz then BoA would be like epics in all those slots to a level 20. No fun.)
 
Neon said:
Never been a fan of haste. Always went crit.
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That's obviously reasonable. But a fury warriors damage (esp if they're f2p and not vet) is dependent on having enrage up. It's a four second buff. Getting bloodthirst to a 4 second CD will let you maximize enrage uptime. But there's no real reason to stack haste beyond that. Crit and vers become more valuable.
 
SupremeChaos said:
the rule ive been going by is find your haste breakpoint. whether thats 1.3 second healing surge, 1.4 second flash of light on ret, 4 sec cd on fury stuff etc. after that then try to get as much verse/mainstat as possible without sacrificing too much crit/stam
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Thats not a thing, atleast the heals. The second decimal is just hidden but there isnt a magic breakpoint.
 
Goesid said:
Thats not a thing, atleast the heals. The second decimal is just hidden but there isnt a magic breakpoint.
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wait what? ok for example on my ret paladin if i have 0 haste i have a 1.5 sec cast time, if i have 14 haste i have a 1.5 sec cast time. but if i have 15 haste i have a 1.4 second cast time. and if i have 40 haste i have a 1.4 second cast time. there for sure is some kind of diminishing return/soft cap stuff going on even if the second decimal is hidden
 
SupremeChaos said:
wait what? ok for example on my ret paladin if i have 0 haste i have a 1.5 sec cast time, if i have 14 haste i have a 1.5 sec cast time. but if i have 15 haste i have a 1.4 second cast time. and if i have 40 haste i have a 1.4 second cast time. there for sure is some kind of diminishing return/soft cap stuff going on even if the second decimal is hidden
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No. If you have 0 haste you have 1.5 s cast, if you have 14 haste you have 1.41 sec cast time, if you have 15 haste you have 1.4s cast time etc.
 
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