Trialaccountx
Legend
Oh, Lec... I can always count on you for some honest, negative and sobering comments <3
How are trials now that Mop has settled in?
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Quintos
Legend
A well played BM hunter with proper pet and racial choices can solo kill:
any 20 of equal skill / equal gear
most 24's with the exception of Rdruids, Hpallies, and Rshammies, (those 3 classes have to be really bad to die to you)
As for priests I recommend holy for the extra 3 sec stun combined with the Belf racial and fear it grants a good level of control as well as decent sustained damage with a nearly unkillable class in group you can really make a difference and allows you to be a decent FC
you can also 1v1 most 20's by outlasting them or CC their heals (barring Rdruids )
as for 24's the stun gives you ample cover for a tactical retreat or a chance to interupt those pesky heals
the loss of penance isn't all that much you sacrifice burst for control and in this bracket burst means very little when a Hpally can heal 1400 instantly or and Rdruid can spam forever and you still have 2 mild nukes and 1 dot for damage
any 20 of equal skill / equal gear
most 24's with the exception of Rdruids, Hpallies, and Rshammies, (those 3 classes have to be really bad to die to you)
As for priests I recommend holy for the extra 3 sec stun combined with the Belf racial and fear it grants a good level of control as well as decent sustained damage with a nearly unkillable class in group you can really make a difference and allows you to be a decent FC
you can also 1v1 most 20's by outlasting them or CC their heals (barring Rdruids )
as for 24's the stun gives you ample cover for a tactical retreat or a chance to interupt those pesky heals
the loss of penance isn't all that much you sacrifice burst for control and in this bracket burst means very little when a Hpally can heal 1400 instantly or and Rdruid can spam forever and you still have 2 mild nukes and 1 dot for damage
Garrett
Legend
Garrett
Legend
On both. A r druid lv20 will wipe the floor with your face. And a lv24 hunter realistically does better than a lv20 hunter. You said they were same skilled, so how are you going to beat somebody who's as good as you are but has more life, atk, crit. shit. etc.
It's not a easy statement to say you can beat a 24 of anything. Maybe if you have the entire situation going for you, then you can wipe the floor with a lot of them. Yeah. But if you both know what's what. It's not going to go down like that.
And a lv20 healer, of anything. I mean, a lot of these classes have more chances than those 3 stuns that you have. Maybe you don't realize it in a bg when you chain shit and they go down. But in a 1v1, you're not gonna chain shit significantly enough against fucking HoT or Paladin bubble or AGM or watever. And the thing is. You NEED those stuns in order to survive. Once you lose the stuns, you're fucked. They have more chances and more opportunities to screw you over.
Just the simple fact that they can heal but you can't sets you at a disadvantage. These stuns are NOT as significant as this factor.
I forget who said it, but someone said, that he just fucking keeps himself above 80% life and skims down at your HP. how the fuck do you combat that? If you can't, like, set up the situation where you can take advantage of the player then those stuns are useless. They just sit there looking pretty.
You NEED to skim their life down to a suitable amount. HoT doesn't let you do this. Period. It's going to heal right through your stun, disrupt the timing, and that's it. The end.
You think post haste can keep up with them? They run faster than you do! For longer than you do. They can skip your concussive like it's a piece of shit you walk over.
''health pot'' lol
health pot. Yeah, that's a suitable replacement for a fucking full paladin heal. Heal to full hp you piece of shit holy paladin? No problem. Check out my.. 200 HP POT. That's how you step up your game. No. NO.
AGM goes both ways. Healers on avrg use AGM more than we do. And normally they have 2 slots of AGM. But let's say in this hypothetical situation that they have 1. Okay.. A paladin for instance has AGM, a bubble, can heal, some can heal to full. Is that synonymous? To an AGM? We have 3 stuns. You are right. We do.
But we can't heal, we can't bubble extra like they do. You place way too much value into these stuns. These stuns are like one trick ponies. It's like flipping three coins and expecting it to all be heads. IT has to go really well to be successful in a 1v1 situation vs healer.
But sure, you can beat just about any DPS class. I will admit that much. But don't tell me you can beat any healer class worth his/her salt with a hunter. It's about limitations.
And btw, regarding the 24 hunter, it's a 1v1 fight. So if you like die and then have to res, that doesn't count. At least, I don't think that counts.
Every hunter that has played more than 2 times knows what a bird pet is and what it does because it's one obnoxious son of a bitch. So rest assured, he would know how to combat this unless he's some fresh start noob. I'll emphasize again that you said similarly skilled. So he can't be some dinky noob.
The bottom line is that he would kick your ass.
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Quintos
Legend
you can kill a 20 Rdruid by cycling stuns, keeping out of melee range, and using disengage with posthaste to catch up when they run
as for the 24's i did not say equal geard or equal skilled there i said most of them and most of them aren't all that good as for 24 hunts use a disarm pet and kill them while they try to figure out why your not dieing its as simple as that. If you run into a really good, well geared 24 hunt you will have to die to them at least once to burn there trinket, then you rez seek round 2 open, disarm them, when that wares off, pet sun them, if they are not dead by then scatter them drop your battle standard and health pot, after 2 secs more if they aren't dead agm and finish them if all that doesn't work you messes up somewhere.
as for the 24's i did not say equal geard or equal skilled there i said most of them and most of them aren't all that good as for 24 hunts use a disarm pet and kill them while they try to figure out why your not dieing its as simple as that. If you run into a really good, well geared 24 hunt you will have to die to them at least once to burn there trinket, then you rez seek round 2 open, disarm them, when that wares off, pet sun them, if they are not dead by then scatter them drop your battle standard and health pot, after 2 secs more if they aren't dead agm and finish them if all that doesn't work you messes up somewhere.
Garrett
Legend
You're also very specific in what you say. Which means you're confident that you can beat a 24 druid that isn't resto, a 24 shaman that isn't resto, and a 24 paladin that isn't Holy.
Again, like I said before. Bullshit. 24 Paladin, no matter how you spin it. He can have like no spec and he'll still kick your ass. Same goes for the rest. A 24 healer of anything, you will not beat 1v1. I am 120% confident in said statement. I don't mean healer specific, but capacity to heal.
And btw you didn't say anything about priest. A 24 shadow priest would laugh the hell out of your corpse. He would t-bag it to oblivion. And of any type. They can chuck out AGMs for fuck sake.
Trialaccountx
Legend
As OP, I declare myself moderator of this thread. And my 1st decree is that no further argument about what class beats what class shall occur. I wanted to see if trial pvp was still kicking/about as fun as its always been, and it appears as tho it is. This thread could be closed for all I care.
Franciska
Legend
Its really unfortunate you need coordination to kill healers on your Hunter now. So sad...
Trialaccountx
Legend
TBH, the thing I found most troublesome was my boomkin was basically unkillable as 5.0 hit... seriously, it was taking 5 people to kill me (if i just stood there and healed). Rejuve having an instant tick when applied and hitting for ~220 utter lol mode
grzegorzlato
Legend
well what no1 mentioned is that most FTPs wait impatiently for 5.2 which is expected to narrow down the gap between 20s and 24s... since those changes were announced i've noticed fewer dedicated FTPs in WSG, especially on the alliance; hopefuly when 5.2 goes live we will use a word "balanced" much more often
Trialaccountx
Legend
A narrowing gap between 20's and 24's?? Never thought I'd see that
rsq
Legend
You certainly don't believe this, with all of the rogues, ferals, (24 spriests), and prots running around?
I'll give you that destro's burst is strong but it's a one trick pony. The spec has no mobility, which makes it weak against groups of players. I absolutely believe that Destro is a strong spec, I just would like some variety as it has a relatively boring playstyle. Additionally, even the 'great burst' of a destro lock with p2p enchants pales in comparison to that of other classes.
Also, you would be very surprised what kind of damage your spell power chant adds.
Well duh, this is the point of playing a warlock.
And this is where you're being extremely presumptuous. It should be pretty clear that I have at least a fundamental understanding of each of the specs. Excuse me for not wanting to play a build where I spam 2 buttons; give destro ember tap or chaos bolt and then it would be on the same level as other classes. As for the other specs, Demo is inarguably good as a general battleground support spec (AoE CoE, anyone?). If it had a damage boost it would then also be able to be a stronger choice. Aff... obviously needs a damage boost but is still strong at pressuring enemy healers into using their GCDs on heals - so it's still a valid spec. Clearly, if it were up to me they would do more than be a pest though.
I think most people you ask would agree that warlocks need some tuning. I'm very surprised that you don't. Try out some of the other classes in the bracket, play your warlock without p2p enchants, and then come back to me?
Garrett
Legend
You seem to be misunderstanding something. I do just fine on my hunter at this present time.
However, I am not going to delude myself and say that we're just as well off as lv20 healers and the majority of lv24 classes when we aren't.
c[_]
Guest
hunters are #1 pure dps class.
hunter > lock
hunter > mage
hunter > rogue
dead hunter > warrior
sorry, it's a L2CC issue.
c[_]
Guest
i see your point, hunter is not #1 in mop now they feel hard doneby. my point is, healers dont need to die, make him self heal or cc him. only the efc needs to die in all honesty.