Healer gear

[Tobinofear]

For me personally the troll racial becomes more weight if you play an offensive char in terms of gettting efc down as fast as you can.

As a troll priest in a mainly healing role i wouldn't overrate the racial with a 3 min cd and 10 sec uptime.
I would rather go as a goblin for the consistant 1% haste and rocket jump as a life saver

Just my thoughts

Cheers
Gattuso

 

[Snowjobs]

Stacking max haste on any troll healer will get u a minimum of 42% haste with lifeblood and berzerking . Throw in a boomy and u get 50%. Just saying .

 

[Kincaide]

And if every heal is 0.6 sec faster.

How many heals do you throw per bg?

How many heals are there to seperate the two?

There's a bit of false conclusion there, though. The number of heals you cast during the whole BG is not a related or significant number. Each individual cast is what matters. If I throw six heals on six people each six seconds apart, the fact that each one was .06 seconds faster does not matter. The only way haste would matter in that situation were to be if the heal lands so infinitesimally close to the moment the killing blow lands, that that .06 second somehow made the difference. And keep in mind, that is six pennies in a dollar, of a second. Server latency is greater than that.

Haste would matter if you're chain casting on someone, I agree, but let's look at by how much. For starters, I'll take the total mana pool of my rdruid, Spreelit. Her total mana pool is 600 and her combat regen is 39/5, or 7.8 mps. Regrowth has a 1.5sec cast time and costs 36 mana, or 24mps. 24-7.8=16.2. 600/16.2=37.03 so just chain-casting Regrowth, an rdruid will go OOM in 37 seconds. So any discussion involving chain casting longer than 37 seconds is moot. That OOM time is faster if you're hasted (everything costs the same but you burn through it faster) so for the sake of argument let's talk about chain-casting on a party member for a flat 30 seconds. How many heals can you get off on one target, chain casting, in 30 seconds, with or without haste? At a casting speed of 1.5 seconds each, you can get 30/1.5=20 casts off. With haste, you get 30/1.44=20.833 casts off.

So... even considering no latency and perfect casts, and considering you don't have to do anything, in a BG, but stand perfectly still and cast, and your target stays alive, for 30 full seconds--in a battleground, mind you---by the time you run completely out of mana you still will not have gained enough speed to pull off even one additional cast.

I wasn't sure what the numbers would produce when I started calculating this, but that's sort of hard to argue with. Anecdotal "it feels faster" arguments don't really matter in the face of numbers. If anyone sees a problem with my mathematics, feel free to point it out, but it appears that even with all the haste we can get, you would have to concoct an idealized, laboratory-perfect scenario with every single source of haste available to us in order to make even one tick of difference.

Edit: This is talking specifically about the contribution of haste FROM GEAR, because this thread is about healer gear. Your haste value would be much higher if you had Lifebloom or Berserking, but that is outside the scope of this particular conversation.

 

[Goesid]

There's a bit of false conclusion there, though. The number of heals you cast during the whole BG is not a related or significant number. Each individual cast is what matters. If I throw six heals on six people each six seconds apart, the fact that each one was .06 seconds faster does not matter. The only way haste would matter in that situation were to be if the heal lands so infinitesimally close to the moment the killing blow lands, that that .06 second somehow made the difference. And keep in mind, that is six pennies in a dollar, of a second. Server latency is greater than that.

Haste would matter if you're chain casting on someone, I agree, but let's look at by how much. For starters, I'll take the total mana pool of my rdruid, Spreelit. Her total mana pool is 600 and her combat regen is 39/5, or 7.8 mps. Regrowth has a 1.5sec cast time and costs 36 mana, or 24mps. 24-7.8=16.2. 600/16.2=37.03 so just chain-casting Regrowth, an rdruid will go OOM in 37 seconds. So any discussion involving chain casting longer than 37 seconds is moot. That OOM time is faster if you're hasted (everything costs the same but you burn through it faster) so for the sake of argument let's talk about chain-casting on a party member for a flat 30 seconds. How many heals can you get off on one target, chain casting, in 30 seconds, with or without haste? At a casting speed of 1.5 seconds each, you can get 30/1.5=20 casts off. With haste, you get 30/1.44=20.833 casts off.

So... even considering no latency and perfect casts, and considering you don't have to do anything, in a BG, but stand perfectly still and cast, and your target stays alive, for 30 full seconds--in a battleground, mind you---by the time you run completely out of mana you still will not have gained enough speed to pull off even one additional cast. If you had Lifebloom, and were a troll and had Berzerking up, then you might have just enough extra speed to pull of ONE additional heal, in thirty seconds of doing nothing but standing still and healing and perfectly compensating for lag on every cast.

I wasn't sure what the numbers would produce when I started calculating this, but that's sort of hard to argue with. Anecdotal "it feels faster" arguments don't really matter in the face of numbers. If anyone sees a problem with my mathematics, feel free to point it out, but it appears that even with all the haste we can get, you would have to concoct an idealized, laboratory-perfect scenario with every single source of haste available to us in order to make even one tick of difference.

Well yes that was a lousy example as you have to walk and stuff etc but I used it to bring a point forward that when you are chain casting that time will stack up. And about the 37 seconds on your druid, smeld and start drinking and you are back up soon. Or a fight nearby the health hut.

Also as an rdruid haste will make your rejuvs tick faster.

And you aren't taking the moonkin/sform buff nor lifeblood into consideration which will bring you over the first and possibly the 2nd haste break point for rejuv.

Where burst where it is today, being able to rescue a teammate going down is simply too valueble to deny.

Can you please explain to me how having an extra 100 hp is going to help save that teammate?

 

[Kincaide]

Can you please explain to me how having an extra 100 hp is going to help save that teammate?

My math appears solid, I think you'd need to explain to me how not being able to squeeze in even one additional heal in a full straight 30 seconds of chain healing in ideal circumstances until you're OOM is going to help save that teammate.

Statements like "being able to rescue a teammate going down is simply too valuable to deny" don't mean anything, unless you can show with math that you actually can save a teammate going down. I think my calculations show that, with the haste you get from gear, you cannot. If you find a flaw in my mathematics, feel free to point it out.

 

[Bop]

My math appears solid, I think you'd need to explain to me how not being able to squeeze in even one additional heal in a full straight 30 seconds of chain healing in ideal circumstances until you're OOM is going to help save that teammate.

Statements like "being able to rescue a teammate going down is simply too valuable to deny" don't mean anything, unless you can show with math that you actually can save a teammate going down. I think my calculations show that, with the haste you get from gear, you cannot. If you find a flaw in my mathematics, feel free to point it out.

I think part of the Disc Priest using Haste logic is that Disc excels in bringing people back from what should otherwise clearly be death.

For instance, with 8% haste (generally the number you get from stacking Haste from gear) a Disc Priest's Penance becomes an instant heal (first proc is always an instant heal), another proc .92 seconds later, and a third in another .92 seconds. While numerically the Healing Per Second may be less than pure intellect, the "Burst" healing can be significant in some situations.

Namely, you mount and run to your FC, who is solo and being picked off by hunters. You arrive with him at 200 health. You PW:S him for roughly 500 absorption, and then cast Penance into him. Numerically, your healing numbers may scale with intellect in a way that is superior to haste, but, in a situation such as that where each hundredth of a second can mean the GCD from one of those hunters kills your FC, Haste is going to be more important. Maybe not "tons" more important, as the return from spell casting speed isn't a numerical giant at 8% haste. However, with Lifeblood as mentioned before (which you would obviously use in these desperate situations), your haste can get into the 12% range, which is even more contribution towards the life-death of someone you just shielded.

I'm not sure how to calculate that type of scenario mathemetically. I number crunch basically everything, but that situation isn't about HPS, per say. It's about max healing within a certain number of seconds, that fluctuates randomly so it can't be nailed down for testing purposes. I think if you ever run the numbers for any healer at this level, Intellect is obviously going to be the highest scaling stat. It's just a primary stat that goes directly into high %Spellpower numbers on Healing Spells, and F2P's don't have many secondary stat scaling mechanisms (I.E., Divine Aegis).

That being said, getting off a cast before Power Word: Shield breaks on an ally isn't something that can be calculated using normal means. And very frequently it means the difference between life and death; winning and losing.

 

[penicillin]

I'm not sure how to calculate that type of scenario mathemetically.

Nor am I but I agree with the way you try to explain the importance. The amount of heal you can put out within a certain timeframe is very important.

 

[Kincaide]

I think part of the Disc Priest using Haste logic is that Disc excels in bringing people back from what should otherwise clearly be death.

For instance, with 8% haste (generally the number you get from stacking Haste from gear) a Disc Priest's Penance becomes an instant heal (first proc is always an instant heal), another proc .92 seconds later, and a third in another .92 seconds. While numerically the Healing Per Second may be less than pure intellect, the "Burst" healing can be significant in some situations.

Namely, you mount and run to your FC, who is solo and being picked off by hunters. You arrive with him at 200 health. You PW:S him for roughly 500 absorption, and then cast Penance into him. Numerically, your healing numbers may scale with intellect in a way that is superior to haste, but, in a situation such as that where each hundredth of a second can mean the GCD from one of those hunters kills your FC, Haste is going to be more important. Maybe not "tons" more important, as the return from spell casting speed isn't a numerical giant at 8% haste. However, with Lifeblood as mentioned before (which you would obviously use in these desperate situations), your haste can get into the 12% range, which is even more contribution towards the life-death of someone you just shielded.

I'm not sure how to calculate that type of scenario mathemetically. I number crunch basically everything, but that situation isn't about HPS, per say. It's about max healing within a certain number of seconds, that fluctuates randomly so it can't be nailed down for testing purposes. I think if you ever run the numbers for any healer at this level, Intellect is obviously going to be the highest scaling stat. It's just a primary stat that goes directly into high %Spellpower numbers on Healing Spells, and F2P's don't have many secondary stat scaling mechanisms (I.E., Divine Aegis).

That being said, getting off a cast before Power Word: Shield breaks on an ally isn't something that can be calculated using normal means. And very frequently it means the difference between life and death; winning and losing.

I follow what you're saying here, and it falls into the first scenario I mentioned in my long post regarding individual casts. The GCD is 1.5 sec for most classes and abilities, and Sab pulled in-game data that showed the effect of haste, from gear alone, on a 1.5second delay is only .06 of one second. I totally get how there can be situations where 60 milliseconds could make the difference, but as I said before, I'm not convinced that that's a greater influence than simply the difference in latency time between your connection to the server and the connection of the enemy who is hitting your target. Merely precasting your Penance before the GCD shows as being complete will buy you more than 60ms jump on that next cast, and MANY if not most people in this bracket don't know about precasting. All that being said, I'm therefore still not convinced that the few clutch situations, where 60ms reduced cast time would make more difference than server latency, is worth giving up the additional stamina. Because no one can argue that a dead healer saves nobody.

 

[penicillin]

The GCD is 1.5 sec for most classes and abilities.

This depends on your amount of haste.

 

[The Saint]

haste wins, marginally. here is a simple test... take all your gear off, apart from 5,5,5 belt(haste one) spam heal your self for a time. then put your 5,5,5, crit belt on and repeat for the same period of time. do this 10 times.

haste wins slightly, 8/10 times.

 

[lifelover]

I personally prefer Stamina, cause even with max haste, crit or intellect nothing changes the fact of 55% Battle Fatigue (even going 65 next patch) that makes your heals not making as much impact as you guys imagine them to do, nor have the game-changing scalings you present them to have. It is true that 50% is alot of haste, but in the end it wouldn't matter if you are dead, right? Stamina is the logical, solid and reliable choice in this occasion, with intellect/spell power at 2nd priority imo. I personally would follow Soopz's gear choice, maybe even considering Mystic's Robe over the Tattered Dreadmist Robe and even double AGM if you can afford it.

 

[Hashbrowns]

Haste>Spirit>Stam/Res>Int

Int is HIGHLY overrated. Lets take the 2 BoA maces:

Devout Aurastone Hammer
+5 int
Assuming the same gear and the lowest static amount for Flash Heal yields:
622

The Blessed Hammer of Grace
+4 res
Assuming the same gear and the lowest static amount for Flash Heal yields:
614

So yep, you healed for 8 more. 8. This doesn't make a difference.
You also lost 40 Total Effective Health from not having resilience. That's significant.

Getting the heal off in time is the best thing you can do for your team. 8 is not going to make or break a match. Reacting quickly and casting fast is what you need to do. The 2nd best thing you can do is to make sure you have the mana to heal. And yes, OOM does happen. Lastly would be to make sure you have the health pool to survive an ambush and the CD on your bubble when it drops.

Resilience isn't huge but it's still something, I'd go with the pvp mace. That being said, MM shoulders is still BiS. You can't beat 17 stamina anyway you slice it.

 

[penicillin]

haste for president

 

[Hashbrowns]

haste wins, marginally. here is a simple test... take all your gear off, apart from 5,5,5 belt(haste one) spam heal your self for a time. then put your 5,5,5, crit belt on and repeat for the same period of time. do this 10 times.

haste wins slightly, 8/10 times.

I think you are looking for this:

Math went super nova and I died again:

Disc Flash Heal

So... haste wins. It starts to pull away at the 30 sec mark. If you were to cast the entire battleground and had infinite mana these would be your healing dones:

Haste: 507,848
Mix: 494,485
Spell Power: 494,250
Crit: 493,441
(no battle fatigue factored)


If you had to pick one I'd say haste; to react quickly to the burst of this bracket.

Edit: Done with a Human priest, so no cc trinket. Haste build uses full haste gear and double haste trinkets. Everything else is 1 AGM 1 Int. Healths are within 80 of each other, so it's mostly fair.

Edit: How's that for balance, nice job Blizzard

 

[penicillin]

If my synapses malfunctioned frequently I would take more stamina/ intellect/ crit. As they do not I choose haste.

 

[Goesid]

That being said, MM shoulders is still BiS. You can't beat 17 stamina anyway you slice it.

For an offensive set I'd value the heirloom higher but for a balanced or healing set MM is BiS.

 

[Riptides]

finally haste getting some recognition

 

[Srs]

Ok, I'm sold. WTB moar DMF so I can buy hammer and tome.

 

[Hashbrowns]

Robe of Kelris - Item - World of Warcraft scales to the same as Boa with more armor and spirit. Other great items would be Magefist Gloves - Item - World of Warcraft and Deep Fathom Ring - Item - World of Warcraft. All provide excellent spirit for a minor trade-of. Mix and match as needed til you have dialed in your mana regen based on individual play style.

 

[Goesid]

Robe of Kelris - Item - World of Warcraft scales to the same as Boa with more armor and spirit. Other great items would be Magefist Gloves - Item - World of Warcraft and Deep Fathom Ring - Item - World of Warcraft. All provide excellent spirit for a minor trade-of. Mix and match as needed til you have dialed in your mana regen based on individual play style.

Would consider Kelris and Magefist bis for an extended fight but deepfanthom seems inferior to Lorekeeper/Advisors.