Growing and protecting and growing the 20-24 bracket

This is what I do between alliance queues.

/gchat "Jesus freaking christ it's been 20 minutes already"

But when it does pop, a warm sensation flows over you till u see 8 24 hunters with 2 pocket heals.
 
Pookums said:
Crit, several of the players were indeed simul-queing from other servers, and out of respect I shall not name any names. I DID notice however, that none of the HI folks talked out against it, or encouraged otherwise. If nothing else, they are guilty of complicity.

The point is, I have several Horde toons on Aerie Peak, and used to be a part of full 15 man AB and 10 man WSG games. The problem is, I realized that it's completely unfair, fun, or usually any kind of a challenge. I especially felt bad when we faced Alli teams full of TRUE trials who barely had a clue, they just got destroyed. My only consolation in those games was that we NEVER farmed, and we ALWAYS capped quickly. Now, I tend to solo que, or que with just a few others (mostly to counter the 6-7 Alli hunters we usually encounter).

You say you want challenging games, well as a full 24 premade you will NEVER have them, end of story.

On a positive note, as I was leaving the vent server, there was discussion of wargames. I think this is the ONLY way you can ever expect to have fair and balanced games as a 24. To think other wise is deluding yourself.

I speak from experience, I had a 24 for about the period of 2 weeks. In the end, playing him was unfair and really not even fun. I ended up deleting him. For perspective he was a 24 feral and with all cooldowns, there really wasn't many trials in the bracket who wouldn't immediately go down.

I have been twinking since Vanilla, and it is true that the VERY essence of twinking is maximizing your toon in every conceivable way. But the 20-24 bracket IS different from every other bracket with the level and stat disparity between 20 and 24, XP OFF ofc.

From another perspective, on a P2P twink most of the work is done quite easily with a main. F2P have to do it ALL themselves. The harder it is to accomplish a thing, the more rewarding imho.
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I like you.

I now use equipment manager to toggle an 'weak gear' set and my 'twink gear' so that when I'm facing a much weaker team I can get more of a challenge, avoid the sick feeling in my stomach, and make their game a little more enjoyable. My weak gear set is just my good set minus a few pieces to get me down to around the average trial health/mana (from my observations). I have buttons for each gear set on my action bar, there is no cooldown, you can switch while mounted. It's literally the easiest thing I've had to set up on my character.... Why aren't the 24's who seek balanced matches doing this?

I think I'll also make a macro for the start fo BG's to direct people to twink-info for gearing information.
 
Honey badger said:
Once debated creating horde and having a alliance and horde guild on same server. Sorry I have way more respect for alliance que 15 to pummel horde. Besides I do stuff during ques
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Go back to talking in 3rd person please - very entertaining and much more reminiscent of your namesake video.
 
FactorsOf2 said:
I now use equipment manager to toggle an 'weak gear' set and my 'twink gear' so that when I'm facing a much weaker team I can get more of a challenge, avoid the sick feeling in my stomach, and make their game a little more enjoyable. My weak gear set is just my good set minus a few pieces to get me down to around the average trial health/mana (from my observations). I have buttons for each gear set on my action bar, there is no cooldown, you can switch while mounted. It's literally the easiest thing I've had to set up on my character.... Why aren't the 24's who seek balanced matches doing this?
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Why? Here is the why and the truth. Few are telling the truth and their why is obvious when you look at the facts. For example, Licholas suggests games were fair and balanced before 24's. That is a bold faced lie. He also suggests that he is looking for a fair fight. That too is another lie. Here are the facts.
  1. Alliance gear @ 20 is a huge advantage to Horde gear and is one reason why so many players choose to play Alliance. With the two most played classes (Hunter & Druid) and specs agility stacking on Alliance side outpaces the Horde by far. The saying "go Horde for queues, go Alliance for wins" is all over blizzards forums for a reason. The Alliance was dominating the Horde.
  2. Grouped up 24's on the Horde side started showing up and winning. When I play my Horde 24 20s who were so negative about our chances of a win before the game began cheering me and saying we have a chance to win! Oh sure, we have seen a few elitist snob 20s not support their teammates if they were 24s but they are the few. Most 20's are happy for a chance to actually win.
  3. Licholas shows up in WSG with a paladin (Skullett) who both have 5k plus health @ 20 with 5+ hunters looking for a fair & balanced fight? Can you not see the hypocritical banner across his chest? Maybe some don't want to but that is the truth. The dude was liking his farm fests and we put a wrinkle in that. So, sorry to chap their hides...but balanced and fair had nothing to do with the 20-24 bracket before 24s showed up in any numbers.
When Horde Invasion's 24's PuG into a WSG we are looking to win, have fun and hold the high line for common decency, showing respect for our opponents by treating them as fellow players and as we would want to be treated (not the other way round) and sift for players that get it and see if they want to join us. For fair & balanced we build premade contests with our friends and duel relentlessly. If we get a tough match in a PuG that is more icing on the cake and if we catch farmers we glow for the next 24 hours. Hint: we are always glowing. :D

We are promoting the 24's and suggesting the Horde side for the queues for everyone's sake. Many of us will and do play the Alliance side already. But in light of the queue imbalance we need to get Alliance queue times down and that means more players Horde side. I hope this clears things up for you. Sadly, some will cling to what they want to believe but we hope some will let reason win out...or time. We have learned patience is a virtue. ;)
 
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I have a new gripe, the inaccurate honor point totals at the end!!!!!!

It said I had 104 in a match yesterday, I only received 53. ARGGGGHHHH!!!!!!

41k healing on a F2P 20, I was pretty happy.

I agree with point #1 Crit, Blizzard needs to make more quests for the Stockades and BFD instances for Horde, in MOP, Alliance are getting quests for RFC.............it would only be fair to give Horde a Skillpatch quest in Stocks.
 
F2Ps are just mad @ 24s for one reason: they need to crutch on being 24 to get something done. Period. That's the problem with most. You have clearly no idea how bad most 24s are (and I'm not stating 20s aren't but they just aren't that much of an influence on a game). 95% of the bracket is bad. 99% of the 24s are bad. Why do I call them bad? Well, rather simple: They either backpeddle, don't keybind, click, farm, focusdump, don't play as a team, don't assist teammates, don't play for objectives.... I'm not stating most F2Ps are any different, because they clearly aren't. But the difference is: you don't notice that as much. 24s and Hunters are about the same for me. Looked down upon, as long as they clearly have no idea how to play, but when they do, its fine.

I don't mind 24s. Not aslong as they are any good although. I won't stand a chance, no matter what class I play or how perfect I would play, but atleast I won't think: I could have taken this backpeddling, clicking gearcrutching scrub.
 
Crit said:
Why? Here is the why and the truth. Few are telling the truth and their why is obvious when you look at the facts. For example, Licholas suggests games were fair and balanced before 24's. That is a bold faced lie. He also suggests that he is looking for a fair fight. That too is another lie. Here are the facts.
  1. Alliance gear @ 20 is a huge advantage to Horde gear and is one reason why so many players choose to play Alliance. With the two most played classes (Hunter & Druid) and specs agility stacking on Alliance side outpaces the Horde by far. The saying "go Horde for queues, go Alliance for wins" is all over blizzards forums for a reason. The Alliance was dominating the Horde.
  2. Grouped up 24's on the Horde side started showing up and winning. When I play my Horde 24 20s who were so negative about our chances of a win before the game began cheering me and saying we have a chance to win! Oh sure, we have seen a few elitist snob 20s not support their teammates if they were 24s but they are the few. Most 20's are happy for a chance to actually win.
  3. Licholas shows up in WSG with a paladin (Skullett) who both have 5k plus health @ 20 with 5+ hunters looking for a fair & balanced fight? Can you not see the hypocritical banner across his chest? Maybe some don't want to but that is the truth. The dude was liking his farm fests and we put a wrinkle in that. So, sorry to chap their hides...but balanced and fair had nothing to do with the 20-24 bracket before 24s showed up in any numbers.
When Horde Invasion's 24's PuG into a WSG we are looking to win, have fun and hold the high line for common decency, showing respect for our opponents by treating them as fellow players and as we would want to be treated (not the other way round) and sift for players that get it and see if they want to join us. For fair & balanced we build premade contests with our friends and duel relentlessly. If we get a tough match in a PuG that is more icing on the cake and if we catch farmers we glow for the next 24 hours. Hint: we are always glowing. :D

We are promoting the 24's and suggesting the Horde side for the queues for everyone's sake. Many of us will and do play the Alliance side already. But in light of the queue imbalance we need to get Alliance queue times down and that means more players Horde side. I hope this clears things up for you. Sadly, some will cling to what they want to believe but we hope some will let reason win out...or time. We have learned patience is a virtue. ;)
Click to expand...


I'll respond to some of your stuff since I have a moment...

I agree games are NOT fair and balanced without 24s. You either faceroll or get facerolled. Very rarely do you meet a competent and difficult group of 20's. It is extremely rare to have a challenging game against 20's. Please note, I said rare not impossible. This is from a F2P PoV to boot. For the most part, 24's are what make the game more challenging (for a 20). And before anyone starts patting themselves on the back, I'm not saying it is more challenging due to skill. When they run in flocks is a whole 'nother story. But that is neither here, nor there.

Also, Lich could be looking for a fair fight. I'm not entirely sure he is one of those stereotypical skillpatch crutchers. I have seen that out of the mouths of many Alliance, but not him. So swing less with absolutes Crit, it weakens your arguments.


  • There is no denying there is a pretty remarkable gear difference between the factions. And it is a reason many people play Alliance. I have tried to get people to play Horde with me and am often told they would... but there is no crutchpatch. Funnies. Additionally, even I have touted on more than one occasion "If you want to win, play Alliance, if you want to play, play Horde," but I'm not sure that is entirely true. I've had a great deal of success on both factions. It could be attributed to luck and hours of play more than anything else. As there are many players who are quite effective but not nearly as successful. There was a time where I would have agreed that Alliance was dominating the Horde... but anecdotal is anecdotal. And I don't anymore.


  • I concur 24's can play a huge part in a win or loss. Of course the point some people will make is that if neither side had 24's then the issue of having them would not arise. What really bothered me in your commentary here is the implication that Horde players do not win without your presence. *A chance to win?* Please.


  • This point is where I take issue. You bring up a single incident where a player joined with Commanding Shout up to try to support your arguments. Very, very weak. I'm going to have to take a page out of your book and say "Screenshot or it didn't happen." Additionally, how can you blame one individual for class composition when they solo queue (or small group queue). Guess you shoulda had a bigger premade? Really? Yeah you better believe I cross realm group and queue all the time on my F2P. Because that's not a pain in the derrière at all. Sarcasm off.

I'm certain when some members of HI join they uphold your guild values. I have encountered some solid players from your guild who are not complete jackalopes. However, there have been occasions where members of you guild emote spam and sit in the GY farming people. Yes, yes, stop res'ing, but that's not the point I'm making. Seems a little lowbrow. Unless... that's what you are going for.

Finally, I'm enjoying the animosity between you two. And I feel Critser is a troll. Takes one to know one and all that jazz.
 
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After 26 pages here, I think its about time we get back on topic with this thread. This should be a joint discussion between EVERYONE that plays the bracket about creating a better community, not a debate about F2P/20/24. People can, do and should play the game the way they'd like to. We all need to accept that. I enjoy playing with and against Horde Invasion. Getting to be part of their good atttitude makes up for the usually boring games on their side, and while facing them when we have a good group together is usually a loss, it's a fun challenge to overcome. I thoroughly enjoy the moral victory when Crit busts out a Free Action Potion for a tough third cap, I hope he's laughing as much as I do then (in a good way).

Yeah, its frustrating having no hope in a game where my mage gets disarmed by a hunter's bird 10 times. However, the more negative we are about it, the worse it gets. Pretty much anyone who's played a single BG in WoW knows that negativity is never going away completely, since in every game you lose at any level (and probably half the ones you win), the ENTIRE TEAM IS THE WORST EVER, according to someone who is obviously good enough to be paid to play.

The reasonable people here, though, on both sides (faction and level), should be making macros directing other players to TI (full disclosure: I haven't done this yet). Encourage new players to try different classes and inform them of the outrageous amount of resources on this site. People in this community have put a TON of work into absolutely amazing guides. More players should see these and learn from them.

We aren't the ones that should be arguing. A 24 alliance hunter isn't so bad when most of your team is at least moderately geared and somewhat knowledgeable about their class. Horde invasion and Sanctuary aren't the problems, most of our frustration comes from players who just don't know any better. We can all help fix that. There's obviously a long way to go, and it'll never be perfect, but we need to start somewhere.
 
I like your idea Swoops, but after reading the EULA/TOU (and mentioning it already) macro's directing people here may not be entirely do-able.

Anyone have any creative ideas to get around:

(iii) Disrupt the normal flow of dialogue in Chat or otherwise act in a manner that negatively affects other users including without limitation posting commercial solicitations and/or advertisements for goods and services available outside of the World of Warcraft universe;

I feel that mentioning this site may fall under that category. Whispers could work, but you never know...

(iv) Sending repeated unsolicited or unwelcome messages to a single user or repeatedly posting similar messages in a Chat area, including without limitation continuous advertisements to sell goods or services;

Additionally, I would feel really bad disrupting the normal flow of "YOU BADS YOU JACKALOPES YOU SCRUBS YOU NOOBS."
 
Licholas shows up in WSG with a paladin (Skullett) who both have 5k plus health @ 20 with 5+ hunters looking for a fair & balanced fight? Can you not see the hypocritical banner across his chest? Maybe some don't want to but that is the truth. The dude was liking his farm fests and we put a wrinkle in that.
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I do NOT farm. I have NEVER joined a BG with commanding shout. I have NEVER premaded with more than 2 hunters, and that was a 10 man group
 
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Yeah, its not something you should spam or even need to macro. I just thought typing out a nice, informative message once in a macro would make things a bit easier. I ran into someone who had one (maybe Klinda?) and thought it was a very good idea. We don't need to start harassing/spamming people into reading TI, but positively informing them that it exists and they have options to make their games more fun can't be a bad thing.


Also,

SallyG said:
Additionally, I would feel really bad disrupting my normal flow of "YOU BADS YOU JACKALOPES YOU SCRUBS YOU NOOBS."
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FTFY. :)
 
I used to think that the factions had terrible balance until i made a Horde mage. On both toons i won around 2/3 of all the games I've played. For the most part horde pugs are much more enthusiastic and willing to try then ally pugs, and I enjoyed it much more then on ally. Honestly if I still bg'd a fair amount I would definitely be horde.

And just so you know, this bracket wasn't more balanced before the influx of 24s, but because if the number of good players switching to horde for the ques.

Inb4 24s need their own forum because you think we are flaming you.
kratos said:
The day Licholas farms is the day I play a hunter.
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I agree and are you gay?

Edit: the druid named gay heh
 
verh said:
I used to think that the factions had terrible balance until i made a Horde mage. On both toons i won around 2/3 of all the games I've played. For the most part horde pugs are much more enthusiastic and willing to try then ally pugs, and I enjoyed it much more then on ally. Honestly if I still bg'd a fair amount I would definitely be horde.

And just so you know, this bracket wasn't more balanced before the influx of 24s, but because if the number of good players switching to horde for the ques.

Inb4 24s need their own forum because you think we are flaming you.


I agree and are you gay?

Edit: the druid named gay heh
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I am very happy, and you?
And yes the 24 druid Gåy is mine ^_^
 
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