Grimthunder
Legend
Regroovenate said:
They're all butt buddies. And yes Epoch has fallen apart in the past. Go look at Luminaa's character history. Epoch is the 3rd or 4th 70 guild she's been in.
Full 70 Sunwell Clears <Epoch> Recruiting
- Thread starter Luminaa
- Start date
- Status
They're all butt buddies. And yes Epoch has fallen apart in the past. Go look at Luminaa's character history. Epoch is the 3rd or 4th 70 guild she's been in.
Luminaa
Legend
I'm not going to waste anymore time posting on this issue. Bottom line is that we didn't find grims attitude a good fit for the guild, so he was removed. All this he said/she said nonsense is taking up far too much of my time. This individual was in our guild for less than 24 hours... But apparently is an authority on the inner workings of the guild. If there was any truth to what he was saying, he wouldn't be the only one flaming us in this thread. His extreme behavior speaks for itself. If you want VALID information about Epoch, feel free to whisper any one of our members and they will tell you that we are not only fair and honest, but non-elitest. All I Am trying to so is defend my guild from insane and rediculous comments. If my reasons for removing grim weren't conrete enough to begin with, this thread certainly reinforces the behavior that I witnessed within his first 24 hours in the guild.
Grimthunder
Legend
Luminaa said:
Can you get anything right? I xfered over and joined you on Tuesday. I was in Lightbringer's Hyjal and SSC PuGs. And the BWL PuG lol. I ran some 2s game with the Frost Mage who's name I can never remember.
But, yes, keep it up with the lies and keep saying what I said is nonsense. You refuse over and over to refute my specfic claims and the fact you try to say you're done with this simply solidifies the fact you treated me like crap.
Try to spin it however you want. Kicking someone in while they are offline and without reason, justification, or provocation is absolute crap.
But I guess you'd rather have people making jokes about the size of the dildos you use.
Falkor
Twink Info Legend
Soberlolz said:
depends on what you do for a living. for someone w/o a job (child) or a minimum wage job (teen or potential non-college grad) 25$ here and there adds up to a lot. plus he has to either spend another 25 to xfer off or leave his toon on a server where if he wasnt hated before, he prolly is now for these posts.
deegeeak
Legend
Grimthunder said:
Disclaimer: I used to run with Lightbringer's Hyjal/BT/Sunwell group, One Teir Behind during BC. I play a shaman with Epoch now.
I joined Epoch in January. I was quite literally in Enhancement gear, and had just respec'd Resto. Lum and Kron took a risk recruiting me into Epoch - I had no gear, and no experience playing a Resto Shaman. Over 5 months of raiding with Epoch not once have I seen any sort of loot hogging, backdoor trades or corruption that Grimthunder is accusing Lum and Kron of.
We're a laid back bunch who get together twice a week to go kill some internet dragons. The two times I saw someone removed from guild was because the entire guild, from the leadership, to raid leaders, to members, to new trial members just joining were complaining about them. Both times were because those people were so disruptive, so annoying, so frustrating to deal with, it was making people not want to log in just so they could avoid dealing with them.
But if we want to talk about someone being annoying, let's talk about the fact Grim's been logging on our vent, and telling people to join his guild even after being asked politely to not log on our vent. Or promising loot to people.
Grimthunder
Legend
deegeeak said:
lol I logged onto your vent by accident once and when I did like 3 people were on.
And I told some mage recruit your GM is the meanest person I've ever met.
But I definetly tell people to join a guild of people I barely know. I promise them loot even though I'm like r1-2 and have never run with them. And I am ALWAYS on your vent.
Keep lying, it's wonderful.
Kumo
OG
Grimthunder said:
I am simply clarifying and supporting some of what Lumina has said. Our GMs are often very busy during the week, so all she meant was that even though you joined the guild on a Tuesday, within 24 hours of you logging on the same day she did, you made some very poor impressions.
You keep saying you were unjustly removed from the guild and without cause or reason. However, the way you are exhibiting yourself is a clear example of the kind of people we do not want in our guild. <Epoch> is a very large and active guild and we have accomplished a lot by the standards of some 70 guilds. We get over a dozen applicants weekly and perhaps 1-2 get in of those applicants. We have no reason to put up with people that do not know how to behave in a respectful manner. All you are proving is that we made the correct decision about you.
By the way, that mage you did arena with is mine, and the toon's name is Sukai. If you recall I offered to help you do arena games and halfway through you abruptly afk-ed on me for 20 minutes. It seemed as if you had put little thought into what you were doing to the point you were being inconsiderate and I felt my time was not appreciated. I merely brushed it off as you either having a rough day/week or maybe just a bit socially awkward (some people just are, and there is nothing wrong with that). So perhaps, the entire reason why you are in this situation is your inability to resolve social conflicts and your failure to realize you are the source and cause of this whole misunderstanding.
So, please stop bothering us, you are merely tarnishing your own image.
I would offer to still help you get in arena games but it would be inconsiderate for me to assist someone whom is publicly slandering my guild. Perhaps that is a virtue you should consider putting more thought into.
Grimthunder
Legend
Kumo said:
RL happens bro. A call from my mother is slightly more important than 70 arena. I did apologize for wasting your time as I recall.
And you should also not, I haven't been negative towards your guild until after a BS kick.
Had Lum or Kron explained the situation, apologized, and not waited until I was offline to kick me none of this would be happening.
It's obvious Epoch has zero respect for newcomers, so join up if you want to get treated like shit and deal with macro spam in guild.
Y'all are too afraid of Lum and Kron to admit that while in guild I did nothing wrong.
Edit: and FYI it is REALLY hard to pull up a website and type stuff while sitting in heroic queue/flying somewhere. You have no idea how hard it is. No. idea.
Primaeva
Legend
Here comes a wall of text for the people who have actually come to make a decision in a recruitment thread.
Good day. I represent a member>raider>officer who has been with Epoch since it's conception in 2009.
I will attempt to insert some objectivity and productivity back into this thread before we lose more pages to a solitary incident that isn't coming to a close.
Most of the advertising can be found on post one of this thread. I shall highlight only what is relevant to the context of our discussion:
Being the (currently) most successful 70 twink community to stand on its own two feet, Epoch attracts a great amount of attention (both positive and negative), and applicants, (both good and okay).
As you can imagine, as with any successful organization of a relatively large scale (I estimate over 50 unique, regular identities, with another 30 ), Epoch has in place guidelines and policies that govern areas like recruitment, group management, loot distribution, and general guild discipline. These policies are drawn up with the key purpose of guild sustainability.
Holding to this bigger picture, principles like loot fairness and quality control of entrants come easily. We have to use a fair, user-driven and impartial system to handle loot (hence we use zero-sum DKP.), or we'd have disillusionment amongst those not getting loot, corruption issues, and the guild would fall apart.
As for QC on new applicants, while it might appear elitist... I'll go out on a limb and say, yes. It is elitist in spirit to judge someone based on an application, a vent interview and 45 minutes of raiding time. As it is in the real world with job/scholarship interviews, probationary grants, etc, etc.
It is also very pragmatic and fairly accurate, and the only system we can employ with our current resources.
With 7-15 applicants per week-- let's do some math here. We'd have a possible 180-365 new recruits since we started under the new leadership. We have taken on possibly a good hundred and fifty of these as trial members, where their performance and attitude are allowed to show through in the sandbox environment that only Epoch can provide (tm).
Most of these trialbies attend member rank shortly, with the next step being the raider status. Some run into issues with the rest of the guild and leave of their own accord. Some disagree with our policies, but instead of providing valuable feedback and input and waiting out a new verdict, quit or just stop showing up.
Some prove that they cheated the app/interview system and are less-than-pleasant people to have around.
When we take the effort to cherry-pick the good people, we don't just add great company to the roster. We pre-emptively prevent drama, corruption, and opportunities for someone to be a d*** and cause huge upsets.
If there's one message I emphasize to all our applicants, it's that we recruit people, not the class or the gear. Attitude is the one thing you can't acquire by getting BiS pieces or EBaying a dual-glaive rogue. Finally, we want the guild to be a civilized gathering of people capable of being fun, and yet mature. There'd be no point otherwise.
I am proud to say that the current roster of Epoch is patient, understanding and mature when we trade insights about problem within the guild. And trust me, there are many. We are far from perfect. But it is the maturity that our members display in times of need that has helped us evolve into the successful guild we are today. (stuff like passing loot on out of generosity and helping out to get points per week are also small gestures that you see constantly).
Consequently, I am sad to say that to maintain this outlook, we have a certain mould we need our recruits to fit. It's not hard. If you're nice, you're in. It's really that simple. We have had people app 3 times and hence point out to us that we were going to miss a gem of a person.
We also have had people who make an ugly scene out of themselves when they get rejected/told off/gkicked. That just makes us feel better about making the right decisions-- and it would make you feel better too. Join us if you're game for a fun and laid-back (BUT PROFESSIONAL K) 70 experience.
Good day. I represent a member>raider>officer who has been with Epoch since it's conception in 2009.
I will attempt to insert some objectivity and productivity back into this thread before we lose more pages to a solitary incident that isn't coming to a close.
Most of the advertising can be found on post one of this thread. I shall highlight only what is relevant to the context of our discussion:
Being the (currently) most successful 70 twink community to stand on its own two feet, Epoch attracts a great amount of attention (both positive and negative), and applicants, (both good and okay).
As you can imagine, as with any successful organization of a relatively large scale (I estimate over 50 unique, regular identities, with another 30 ), Epoch has in place guidelines and policies that govern areas like recruitment, group management, loot distribution, and general guild discipline. These policies are drawn up with the key purpose of guild sustainability.
Holding to this bigger picture, principles like loot fairness and quality control of entrants come easily. We have to use a fair, user-driven and impartial system to handle loot (hence we use zero-sum DKP.), or we'd have disillusionment amongst those not getting loot, corruption issues, and the guild would fall apart.
As for QC on new applicants, while it might appear elitist... I'll go out on a limb and say, yes. It is elitist in spirit to judge someone based on an application, a vent interview and 45 minutes of raiding time. As it is in the real world with job/scholarship interviews, probationary grants, etc, etc.
It is also very pragmatic and fairly accurate, and the only system we can employ with our current resources.
With 7-15 applicants per week-- let's do some math here. We'd have a possible 180-365 new recruits since we started under the new leadership. We have taken on possibly a good hundred and fifty of these as trial members, where their performance and attitude are allowed to show through in the sandbox environment that only Epoch can provide (tm).
Most of these trialbies attend member rank shortly, with the next step being the raider status. Some run into issues with the rest of the guild and leave of their own accord. Some disagree with our policies, but instead of providing valuable feedback and input and waiting out a new verdict, quit or just stop showing up.
Some prove that they cheated the app/interview system and are less-than-pleasant people to have around.
When we take the effort to cherry-pick the good people, we don't just add great company to the roster. We pre-emptively prevent drama, corruption, and opportunities for someone to be a d*** and cause huge upsets.
If there's one message I emphasize to all our applicants, it's that we recruit people, not the class or the gear. Attitude is the one thing you can't acquire by getting BiS pieces or EBaying a dual-glaive rogue. Finally, we want the guild to be a civilized gathering of people capable of being fun, and yet mature. There'd be no point otherwise.
I am proud to say that the current roster of Epoch is patient, understanding and mature when we trade insights about problem within the guild. And trust me, there are many. We are far from perfect. But it is the maturity that our members display in times of need that has helped us evolve into the successful guild we are today. (stuff like passing loot on out of generosity and helping out to get points per week are also small gestures that you see constantly).
Consequently, I am sad to say that to maintain this outlook, we have a certain mould we need our recruits to fit. It's not hard. If you're nice, you're in. It's really that simple. We have had people app 3 times and hence point out to us that we were going to miss a gem of a person.
We also have had people who make an ugly scene out of themselves when they get rejected/told off/gkicked. That just makes us feel better about making the right decisions-- and it would make you feel better too. Join us if you're game for a fun and laid-back (BUT PROFESSIONAL K) 70 experience.
Grimthunder
Legend
k, explain to me how their hunter alt and warrior alt both got an Apolyon in a total of 19 runs? It has a 1/6 chance to drop, so on average you'd see 3 in 18 runs.
And somehow they got 2 of them. Because ALL the other paladins and warriors had one, right?
And somehow they got 2 of them. Because ALL the other paladins and warriors had one, right?
Grimthunder
Legend
Primaeva said:We also have had people who make an ugly scene out of themselves when they get rejected/told off/gkicked. That just makes us feel better about making the right decisions-- and it would make you feel better too. Join us if you're game for a fun and laid-back (BUT PROFESSIONAL K) 70 experience.
Macro Spam
Constant Vulgarities
Sexual jokes (nice dildo Lum)
Yelling over vent
etc
Very professional.
Very, very, very professional.
Primaeva
Legend
Having posted the generic and mature answer, allow me to rebut some of this instigator's claims.
Gitterdun and Elunaa acquired Apolyons back when we still held alt runs, which fielded 80s when we were short of our own guildies.
We have since discontinued and disallowed Alt Runs and Pugging due to the confused masses accusing the entire Epoch of mooching loot off 80s in our alt runs. It was not being fair to the full 25 70 team that cleared BT/SWP week after week without assistance of 80s. Hence alt runs were suspended.
A good illustration of the constant evolution of the guild, as well as proof that you are flailing around for whatever dirt you think you can dig up.
Macro Spam: Tolerable but all in the name of fun. It has obviously never come down to disciplinary issues over macro spam, because we pick the right people, or we'd have another QQtard in here messing up our recruitment thread. (I GOT KICKED FOR MACRO SPAM)
Constant Vulgarities: Untrue. Also, IF directed at people, are in jest. I'm sure you're acquainted with the term 'can take a joke' or 'friendship'.
Sexual Jokes: We're not 10 years old. If you have lived beyond twenty and still find sexual jokes intolerable... well, it's good you have things to do outside WoW now, hmm?
Yelling over vent: This happens when Thori'dal/Glaives or a highly prized BiS item drops, or when friendly chatter gets excited, to the amusement of everyone else.
My personal conclusion on Grimthunder:
To have to resolve to nitpicking on perfectly normal, adult practices, either 1) Grimthunder has run out of steam or 2) Grimthunder seriously takes offense at the way adults conduct themselves, as he is not part of a community that treat each other as friends enough to engage in abovementioned accusations. I sincerely apologize if it is 2), there is nothing I can do to help you there.
Actually, thank you for doing an advert for us, Grim. I'm sure people doubted the fun we have in Epoch considering my serious tone earlier, but now they know we're normal people.
Gitterdun and Elunaa acquired Apolyons back when we still held alt runs, which fielded 80s when we were short of our own guildies.
We have since discontinued and disallowed Alt Runs and Pugging due to the confused masses accusing the entire Epoch of mooching loot off 80s in our alt runs. It was not being fair to the full 25 70 team that cleared BT/SWP week after week without assistance of 80s. Hence alt runs were suspended.
A good illustration of the constant evolution of the guild, as well as proof that you are flailing around for whatever dirt you think you can dig up.
Macro Spam: Tolerable but all in the name of fun. It has obviously never come down to disciplinary issues over macro spam, because we pick the right people, or we'd have another QQtard in here messing up our recruitment thread. (I GOT KICKED FOR MACRO SPAM)
Constant Vulgarities: Untrue. Also, IF directed at people, are in jest. I'm sure you're acquainted with the term 'can take a joke' or 'friendship'.
Sexual Jokes: We're not 10 years old. If you have lived beyond twenty and still find sexual jokes intolerable... well, it's good you have things to do outside WoW now, hmm?
Yelling over vent: This happens when Thori'dal/Glaives or a highly prized BiS item drops, or when friendly chatter gets excited, to the amusement of everyone else.
My personal conclusion on Grimthunder:
To have to resolve to nitpicking on perfectly normal, adult practices, either 1) Grimthunder has run out of steam or 2) Grimthunder seriously takes offense at the way adults conduct themselves, as he is not part of a community that treat each other as friends enough to engage in abovementioned accusations. I sincerely apologize if it is 2), there is nothing I can do to help you there.
Actually, thank you for doing an advert for us, Grim. I'm sure people doubted the fun we have in Epoch considering my serious tone earlier, but now they know we're normal people.
Grimthunder
Legend
fyi, real adults aren't so immature as to spam macros and make stupid dildo jokes
Grow the fuck up.
Grow the fuck up.
- Status