PTR First Look at Shadowlands Level Squish

[Kirise]

I'm late to the party, and I've been digging through recent XP-off posts to find a thread like this. Assuming that SL keeps 10-level brackets, @Swoops ' list makes a lot of sense. Blizzard wanted to shrink 120 down to 50, and the key part is that leveling isn't linear i.e. it takes more XP to level up between higher levels than between lower levels.

Point being, there's a good chance that using the gear requirements list Swoops found as a rough guide, current 79s become the new 29s, current 99s become the new 39s, and current 119s become the new 49s. (44s as the new 19s feels awkward. Sorry 19s.)

I would expect that gear will scale the same way in SL i.e. dungeon drops, quests, and BoEs will all scale to a character, but crafted gear and raid gear will keep fixed level requirements. Because of that, there's a good chance that much of the BiS gear those characters wear now will remain the same unless Blizzard makes a significant nerf to gems or sockets.

I'm excited for SL 39s, because it was always unfortunate that mastery activated at 78 (should have been 80), and this is a good chance for mastery to activate at 40 when the squish happens.

 

[Tom Ganks]

https://www.wowhead.com/news=312121/shadowlands-early-level-progression-updates


not sure if this is in alpha yet


Blizzard
Item level progression has been updated. Item levels now increase faster in lower character levels, and low-level creatures are better tuned to account for this and other factors.

Additionally, Gold rewards have been increased at all character levels.

pepehands

I really hope this means that each high ilvl item you get after leveling up, you actually notice your damage increase like how it used to be in mop (and before). Now getting an upgrade while leveling, or even twinking, feels like a micro change, and it's not as rewarding. I remember hitting lvl 60 back in MoP and using my saved up honor from BGs to buy the pvp tier set, and noticed a significant stat boost per item equipped.

With less levels between I'm hoping upgrading from a BC item to a WOTLK item (for example) feels significant.
[doublepost=1589014371,1589013490][/doublepost]My prediction is that the new major twinking levels will be 1s (for vanity reasons; and new possible potential), 10s, 19s (will be different than modern 19 bracket, but people will do it for the sake of the number), 20s (maybe..), 30s, 46s (for bfa gear/gem benifits along with legion stuff), 49s, 50s, and 59s. That's my guess.

 

[Jva]

My prediction is that the new major twinking levels will be 1s (for vanity reasons; and new possible potential), 10s, 19s (will be different than modern 19 bracket, but people will do it for the sake of the number), 20s (maybe..), 30s, 46s (for bfa gear/gem benifits along with legion stuff), 49s, 50s, and 59s. That's my guess.

There is like no reason for 1/30/46(lol) and 49 to become major twinking levels. 10 or 20 depends on F2p cap, the other one will be non existent. It will most likely be f2p, last expansion cap and probably 19s + 59. So not really any changes to what it is now. If you are talking about that one crazy dude xp locking at 46 and call that twinking then ok.

 

[Tom Ganks]

There is like no reason for 1/30/46(lol) and 49 to become major twinking levels. 10 or 20 depends on F2p cap, the other one will be non existent. It will most likely be f2p, last expansion cap and probably 19s + 59. So not really any changes to what it is now. If you are talking about that one crazy dude xp locking at 46 and call that twinking then ok.

30 would be the equivalent to 80. And seeing things like Shadowmourne and Warglaives being in relatively close level proximity, I'd imagine people will twink 30 for those reasons. lvl 1 is a bit of a stretch, but as I said for vanity reasons. 46 will be 111s squished (if the math checks out). 111s are superior to 110s in nearly every way (especially secondary stats) due to the gem and enchant scaling benefits 111+ provides.

Example:
https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/character/us/tichondrius/bakusaiga
https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/character/us/tichondrius/destrix
courtesy of @KyleF1sher9

Assuming if the same enchant/gem scaling will be in place for 46, we will definitely see people continue twinking at 46. 49 is a theoretical no-brainer. Current 119s with somewhat grandfathered and/or hard to obtain 388s/405s will undoubtably be rare, but with the possibility of every other expansion scaling up to 49 in terms of maybe heroic and mythic dungeons, 49s will theoretically have the largest gear selection if scaling is decent.

 

[jackblood]

Imagine believing there will be playable queues and vibrant communities for any bracket other than 10s/F2P

 

[Cattywompus]

One thing to think about is maybe the level squish will undo the xpoff and xpon queued together.

 

[Tom Ganks]

Imagine believing there will be playable queues and vibrant communities for any bracket other than 10s/F2P

Imagine being part of the problem and only populating f2p bracket, despite most of them paying for perks. Trust me there are better brackets than 20s (or soon to be 10s). And I've played that for years

@Cattywompus one could only dream

 

[Cattywompus]

Imagine being part of the problem and only populating f2p bracket, despite most of them paying for perks. Trust me there are better brackets than 20s (or soon to be 10s). And I've played that for years

@Cattywompus one could only dream

I'd say that most users on here twinked at least a few brackets besides f2p/vet, but right now its the only option. With that being said it is really nice to have a melting pot of all twink players in the same bracket. If you can look past the only having one build, minimal abilities, and only stacking vers haste and primary stats it's been an amazing year for me playing vets.

 

[zazzyfraz]

110 is better than 20s


My opinion Xd



but Ppl talking like 20 is the only bracket should stop..

 

[Tom Ganks]

Ugh. Having looked more into this... It seems blizzard lied. They said there would only be a lvl squish. But theres also a stat squish as well. Meaning dumbing down stat advantages, as well as value in an epic raid item compared to a green quest item. I hope I'm wrong. But if I'm right, honestly fuck all of this.

 

[Chops]

but Ppl talking like 20 is the only bracket should stop..

^

19s, 89s and 110s all have shit going on.

 

[DeLindsay]

Ugh. Having looked more into this... It seems blizzard lied. They said there would only be a lvl squish. But theres also a stat squish as well. Meaning dumbing down stat advantages, as well as value in an epic raid item compared to a green quest item. I hope I'm wrong. But if I'm right, honestly fuck all of this.

When has Blizz EVER been honest about any Game they've created in the past ~10 years? We're all still waiting on that Dance Studio, advertised on the Retail Box art for WotLK.

 

[Warriors101]

Ugh. Having looked more into this... It seems blizzard lied. They said there would only be a lvl squish. But theres also a stat squish as well. Meaning dumbing down stat advantages, as well as value in an epic raid item compared to a green quest item. I hope I'm wrong. But if I'm right, honestly fuck all of this.

There is still the possibility of good enchants, sockets, and corruption procs. I actually like the stat squish because it puts lvl 50s much more on par to lower lvls(or at least I hope). In comparison, the ilvls at lvl 50 are basically being squished down to the 101-109 brackets usual ilvl. This makes it a lot easier for lower lvls to catch up but the squish also effects them so it will depend as well. There is of course essences and corruption as well but if you can access that below lvl 50 it may not matter. It will be interesting to see what the scaling beyond 50 is(it will probably scale quickly but ya never know). And of course there will be probably at least some odd ball brokenly scaled items or unscaled items that are missed since this is the first lvl squish ever(I already have my eyes on a few but its still early alpha and i didn't scour everything in the wowhead database especially because its subject to change). Its really up in air on how much everything is effected and what each lvl gets access to. Shadowlands I have little doubt is gonna shake everything up below max level.

 

[Tom Ganks]

@Warriors101 usually they leave the last raid tier of the previous xpac untouched in terms of relative effectiveness. They did this with MoP SoO, WoD HFC, Legion Antorus, and will do the same for Nyalotha. So 50s (120s) will still be an overinflated and overpowered mess like they currently are. And while that sounds like something that goes against what I expressed previously, I see it as favoritism for “current” content and disregard for older content. Blizzard over the last 6 years has done this. It’s forcing players to delete or level their now nerfed characters from previous xpacs to the “new” twinking level. And my guess would be 50, 51, or 59.

Any other level below that will just feel stale in terms of gear upgrades, and the only saving factor in some people’s eyes are gems and enchants. And I don’t see that as a good thing. Those 2 things used to be icing on the cake. Now they’re just the cake. How long will it be before they disable gem slots like they did with tier bonuses?

Im probably going to make a rant video/letter to blizzard if the ptr hits and this is true.

 

[Warriors101]

@Warriors101 usually they leave the last raid tier of the previous xpac untouched in terms of relative effectiveness. They did this with MoP SoO, WoD HFC, Legion Antorus, and will do the same for Nyalotha. So 50s (120s) will still be an overinflated and overpowered mess like they currently are. And while that sounds like something that goes against what I expressed previously, I see it as favoritism for “current” content and disregard for older content. Blizzard over the last 6 years has done this. It’s forcing players to delete or level their now nerfed characters from previous xpacs to the “new” twinking level. And my guess would be 50, 51, or 59.

Any other level below that will just feel stale in terms of gear upgrades, and the only saving factor in some people’s eyes are gems and enchants. And I don’t see that as a good thing. Those 2 things used to be icing on the cake. Now they’re just the cake. How long will it be before they disable gem slots like they did with tier bonuses?

Im probably going to make a rant video/letter to blizzard if the ptr hits and this is true.

Perhaps it will be relatively still effective, but based on the stats I see in the database im not sure how its gonna be unless they really ramp up the secondary and primary stat effectiveness for the level after the squish. Perhaps they are trying to prevent a repeat of 110s from the beginning of the expansion. Its really hard to know what will happen until it progresses a bit further. This is also the first time they did a level squish so it is a bit different from last time.

 

[Tom Ganks]

unless they really ramp up the secondary and primary stat effectiveness for the level after the squish

I've been wishing for this ever since the first stat squish has happened. Gameplay feels slow and abilities feel underwhelming despite an item having superior stats simply because the secondary stat amplifier gives micro changes upon upgrade. Like you literally have to install deja stats to see the increase in decimal place much of the time.

Perhaps they are trying to prevent a repeat of 110s from the beginning of the expansion

As I said, I don't think they're touching Nyalotha gear effectiveness, just like they did with Antorus during BFA. You can look on wowhead and see that anything that isn't Nyalotha in BFA is around ilvl 50-60, whereas Nyalotha gear is about ilvl 85+.

 

[Warriors101]

I've been wishing for this ever since the first stat squish has happened. Gameplay feels slow and abilities feel underwhelming despite an item having superior stats simply because the secondary stat amplifier gives micro changes upon upgrade. Like you literally have to install deja stats to see the increase in decimal place much of the time.



As I said, I don't think they're touching Nyalotha gear effectiveness, just like they did with Antorus during BFA. You can look on wowhead and see that anything that isn't Nyalotha in BFA is around ilvl 50-60, whereas Nyalotha gear is about ilvl 85+.

Yes, but the stat increase is not that great between those ilvls. But you are probably correct that they will try to keep them at least fairly strong one way or another.

I was pretty sure mythic got increased to 140+ ilvl but I could be mistaken.

 

[jackblood]

It’s *literally* a numbers game.

If you want to twink and have access to the largest pool of concurrent players, then the F2P cap is the most relevant bracket—whatever level it ends up being.

Ya’ll hipsters can swear up and down about how there’s viable twinking in non-standard brackets, sure.

No one is saying you can’t have lots of fun treating WoW like a mostly single-player game!

But to pretend like the numbers of active accounts outside of F2P cap are ever going to be comparable is delusional. Also, to pretend like the quantity of active players doesn’t have a meaningful impact on the quality of play is also delusional.

Not applicable if you don’t care about PvP of course

 

[Tom Ganks]

Ya’ll hipsters can swear up and down about how there’s viable twinking in non-standard brackets, sure.

We're well aware that it's about population. But that said other brackets have thrived, like 19s during wod for example, and 70s to 85s in mop. And at the beginning of WoD, the 119 US alliance community had over 500 players alone.

And I can assure you the gameplay, gear variation, and class balances is much better and enjoyable in higher brackets. It's not just about being a hipster. It's about having good taste as well. There's just outright more content in upper levels.

The community just sucks at organizing things right now. Also doesnt help that blizzard fucked our queues because of simpletons complaining on the Bnet forums. Many of which had little to no pvp achievements under their accounts.

 

[artonkn]

It’s *literally* a numbers game.

If you want to twink and have access to the largest pool of concurrent players, then the F2P cap is the most relevant bracket—whatever level it ends up being.

Ya’ll hipsters can swear up and down about how there’s viable twinking in non-standard brackets, sure.

No one is saying you can’t have lots of fun treating WoW like a mostly single-player game!

But to pretend like the numbers of active accounts outside of F2P cap are ever going to be comparable is delusional. Also, to pretend like the quantity of active players doesn’t have a meaningful impact on the quality of play is also delusional.

Not applicable if you don’t care about PvP of course

F2Ps are shit and the games are trash