Faction Change
- Thread starter Ilúvatar
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Footman
Legend
If you are wanting to do the honorable "Follow everything f2p, only getting items and choosing races that f2p's can also get"then that is very... honorable of you.
Balance wise though, a Horde warrior choosing the boa helm is no more op than an alliance hunter wearing a skill patch.
So balance wise that would be perfectly acceptable.
It just depends whether other people would let you join their events such as arena if you are wearing an item they can't get.
If I was leader of an event like arena, then it would be fine by me, as it is just as balanced as a hunter wearing a skill patch.
Balance wise though, a Horde warrior choosing the boa helm is no more op than an alliance hunter wearing a skill patch.
So balance wise that would be perfectly acceptable.
It just depends whether other people would let you join their events such as arena if you are wearing an item they can't get.
If I was leader of an event like arena, then it would be fine by me, as it is just as balanced as a hunter wearing a skill patch.
Footman
Legend
Hopefully they will add some more lower level helms in mop. Or at least make the boa helms buy-able with honor/justice points... They can't make it even more unbalanced or I imagine that's when this bracket will be dead and gone.
Even better, hopefully they will increase the trial account max level to 24!
Surely there is some kindness and balance left in the hearts of those blizzard devs...
Even better, hopefully they will increase the trial account max level to 24!
Surely there is some kindness and balance left in the hearts of those blizzard devs...
Aradiel
Legend
Don't compare horde warriors with alliance hunters, that's just ridiculous. Horde warriors with alliance warriors Horde get more hit from boots and wrist than alliance. Blizz don't attempt to balance level 20 since level 20 is nothing. Level 19 is and to a lesser extent some other lowbie brackets but 20s aren't even on their radar.
Footman
Legend
I know we aren't on the rader for balance.... I was being partly sarcastic and partly optimistic/hopeful...
Why can't I compare horde warriors to alliance hunters? They are both classes that should be of equal value.
But, Hazskillz, if you want to follow the more honorable rules of Aradiel, then as a warrior/paladin, you better just go with what is available to f2p's.
Why can't I compare horde warriors to alliance hunters? They are both classes that should be of equal value.
But, Hazskillz, if you want to follow the more honorable rules of Aradiel, then as a warrior/paladin, you better just go with what is available to f2p's.
Aradiel
Legend
Because they're different classes and so the comparison isn't valid. I looked at the F2P armory thread and could not find a single BiS horde warrior. Most of them gave up, so I can't link you two armories for you to see just how virtually identical they are. That said, BiS warriors are hit capped on both sides and have similar str/stam/crit.
Footman
Legend
They are similar, not equal though. Should I start a new thread for this discussion? (Please note this is a discussion not an argument).
I would be fine with alliance wearing the boa helm as well as horde to be honest.
But ok, lets look at the numbers of horde against alliance warriors. (Note: I am just comparing facts, inform me if/ where i am wrong)
Factionally different gear stat-wise... With bis rings, boots, wrist and helm (non boa) (all other gear, including bows, are equivalent) (Also, assuming 4 agi = 1 useful stat):
Alliance have 58 useful stats...
Helm: 11 sta, 8 hit, (8 agi-> 2 useful stats).
boots: 5 sta, 5 str.
ring: 4 sta, 5 str.
ring: 3 sta, 3 str, (3 hit->1 useful stat for hit capping to 5%).
wrist: 5 sta, 4 str, 2 hit.
Horde have 48 useful stats...
Helm: 4 sta, 4 hit.
boots, 5 sta, 5 str, 5 hit.
ring: 4 sta, 5 str.
ring: 3 sta, 5 str.
wrist: 4 sta, 2 str, (3 hit-> 2 useful stat for hit capping to 5%).
This leads to my conclusion that Alliance warriors have 10 more stats, and therefore, it is more perfectly acceptable for a Horde warrior to wear the boa helm.
Also, I come to the conclusion that it is more acceptable for a Horde warrior to wear the boa helm than it is for an alliance warrior to wear one. This is because the stat difference of bis items before boa helm is 10 stats in favor of alliance, and the stat difference of a horde wearing a boa helm when an alliance is not is 9 stats in favor of horde. so the stat difference is less with horde wearing boa helm than the stat difference without horde wearing boa helm.
I would be fine with alliance wearing the boa helm as well as horde to be honest.
But ok, lets look at the numbers of horde against alliance warriors. (Note: I am just comparing facts, inform me if/ where i am wrong)
Factionally different gear stat-wise... With bis rings, boots, wrist and helm (non boa) (all other gear, including bows, are equivalent) (Also, assuming 4 agi = 1 useful stat):
Alliance have 58 useful stats...
Helm: 11 sta, 8 hit, (8 agi-> 2 useful stats).
boots: 5 sta, 5 str.
ring: 4 sta, 5 str.
ring: 3 sta, 3 str, (3 hit->1 useful stat for hit capping to 5%).
wrist: 5 sta, 4 str, 2 hit.
Horde have 48 useful stats...
Helm: 4 sta, 4 hit.
boots, 5 sta, 5 str, 5 hit.
ring: 4 sta, 5 str.
ring: 3 sta, 5 str.
wrist: 4 sta, 2 str, (3 hit-> 2 useful stat for hit capping to 5%).
This leads to my conclusion that Alliance warriors have 10 more stats, and therefore, it is more perfectly acceptable for a Horde warrior to wear the boa helm.
Also, I come to the conclusion that it is more acceptable for a Horde warrior to wear the boa helm than it is for an alliance warrior to wear one. This is because the stat difference of bis items before boa helm is 10 stats in favor of alliance, and the stat difference of a horde wearing a boa helm when an alliance is not is 9 stats in favor of horde. so the stat difference is less with horde wearing boa helm than the stat difference without horde wearing boa helm.
Aradiel
Legend
Get a LFH. You don't need engineering. Link me ONE BiS horde F2P warrior. You're forgetting that fury get 3% hit and orcs get expertise from axes and orcs and cows are stronger and have more stam than NEs. The end result of BiS for both is very similar but there are no BiS horde warriors because they all give up before they reach that point.
Edit: This is an alliance NE http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/aerie-peak/Jump/simple this is BiS.
Edit: This is an alliance NE http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/aerie-peak/Jump/simple this is BiS.
Footman
Legend
LFH is literally unavailable to me as i work on U.S server time 2-4. It isn't an item that you can consider freely available. And the couple times i've had off work during I have seen zero lfh fish. I'm sure many people have been farming for months for it and still haven't seen it anyway.
Also, if you take LFH, as a Horde warrior, you are no longer hit capped. what then? cobrahns belt? then you lose 5 stats right there and you are still in the same situation Except Horde is down 8 stats instead of 10. It is still less.
No I don't need to link a bis horde warrior as it's irrelevant. I have listed the bis Horde and Alliance stats from items that will make you hit capped. You tell me what's wrong with what I listed?
Again, you can't say "just get LFH". It is on a completely different level to the eyepatch which is gained from a quest. So that leaves Horde at a 10 point disadvantage.
Also, if you take LFH, as a Horde warrior, you are no longer hit capped. what then? cobrahns belt? then you lose 5 stats right there and you are still in the same situation Except Horde is down 8 stats instead of 10. It is still less.
No I don't need to link a bis horde warrior as it's irrelevant. I have listed the bis Horde and Alliance stats from items that will make you hit capped. You tell me what's wrong with what I listed?
Again, you can't say "just get LFH". It is on a completely different level to the eyepatch which is gained from a quest. So that leaves Horde at a 10 point disadvantage.
iaccidentallytwink
Guild Master
But my hunter does that already without Engineering garbage.
Footman
Legend
Boneshield is the exception, not the rule, for what a Horde warrior is capable of. Just as you Kale are the exception to the rule, with your grandfathered gear you have.
LFH is not part of the equation, please don't try to say it is.
Also demon band I have excluded from my stat recordings for horde and alliance as it's a very rare random drop that isn't freely available and could take months and months of grinding.
And razor's edge (which is the last item which makes boneshield hit capped) is a very rare random drop in BFD... Again, Not part of the equation.
LFH is not part of the equation, please don't try to say it is.
Also demon band I have excluded from my stat recordings for horde and alliance as it's a very rare random drop that isn't freely available and could take months and months of grinding.
And razor's edge (which is the last item which makes boneshield hit capped) is a very rare random drop in BFD... Again, Not part of the equation.
Aradiel
Legend
Meh, 2x1H and undead, but okay, I'll take it. Also dual AGMs, but fine.
Strength identical. NEs have the agility and so crit advantage, although the undead would do better with the PvP rings since if they were using a 2H they wouldn't need more than 7% hit. Both of their profs need work. Enchanting, really? Mining is stam and eng is bombs I guess. Armor would be similar if undead had BiS legs, although the difference is still minimal.
If they were orc or cow they'd be stronger and have more stam. Either way, the numbers end up being VERY similar with one having advantages in one stat and the other having advantages in the other.
Strength identical. NEs have the agility and so crit advantage, although the undead would do better with the PvP rings since if they were using a 2H they wouldn't need more than 7% hit. Both of their profs need work. Enchanting, really? Mining is stam and eng is bombs I guess. Armor would be similar if undead had BiS legs, although the difference is still minimal.
If they were orc or cow they'd be stronger and have more stam. Either way, the numbers end up being VERY similar with one having advantages in one stat and the other having advantages in the other.
iaccidentallytwink
Guild Master
I'm Jelly as **** of Kale's pally, definitely the rarest F2P account in existence.
NICE PIT FIGHTER BTW KALE
Aradiel
Legend
Hehe thanks, I got people to help me with it otherwise I'd have literally no chance. That place is wall to wall ability spam every single time. After they realised my group wasn't going to let them have it, they stopped coming in and I just walked in and looted.
Also I don't think Boneshield is the exception. That's 100% F2P and currently available. Obviously I wouldn't include my own GF gear in a comparison like this. Shame about your not being able to get the hat due to other commitments, I was talking generally though, warrior vs warrior and not about you specifically.
Also I don't think Boneshield is the exception. That's 100% F2P and currently available. Obviously I wouldn't include my own GF gear in a comparison like this. Shame about your not being able to get the hat due to other commitments, I was talking generally though, warrior vs warrior and not about you specifically.
Footman
Legend
You cannot deny that getting a Horde warrior bis like boneshield is 100 times as hard (possible hyperbole) as getting an alliance warrior bis.
But going back to original boa helm points, as I have said, I would be completely fine with alliance warriors using boa helm just the same as horde warriors... Seeing as they are, as you put it, completely equal.
(Note: Horde warrior will always be at a disadvantage to alliance warriors until horde have done multiple times as much gearing up and grinding dungeons as the alliance character. And for people who work sunday 2-4, just forget about LFH, you aint ever gonna be equally geared as alliance warriors, just be more skilled than them)
C O T U S
Legend
nobody gives a **** about BiS. stop talking about it. footman's analysis is right on - horde leather and mail wearers who are p2p can (and should) be wearing their class's BOA helm to make up for alliance eyepatchers
seriously, you eyepatch apologists are something else. nobody with more than 2 brain cells to rub together is going to buy your bullshit about horde leather and mail being comparable to alliance eyepatch facerolling
seriously, you eyepatch apologists are something else. nobody with more than 2 brain cells to rub together is going to buy your bullshit about horde leather and mail being comparable to alliance eyepatch facerolling
iaccidentallytwink
Guild Master
Also incoming F2P first of the Horde? Or does someone already have it as F2P?