EU+US Enchanting changes in Legion

I'm still working on getting my 10's to be 100% BiS Spirit/BA>Versa for Legion so take my Armories with a grain of salt, I haven't worked on all 10 yet. I'm actually mostly Testing PTR on Atahl like @ShinyHero pointed out so he'll be the closest to done of them all for now. I do have some GF'd Gear that effects Versa so as I get more of the Willow... of Spirit Gear I'll update my findings.

@sti Can I ask, was that 134/183% with +4 Versa Food and the DMF Vial and with or without the Versa Party Buff?
 
Sponsor said:
Well... time to go stack spirit on live.

Is 100% of spirit gear becoming versatility? Or is there gear that becomes an other Stat?
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It's like 99%. I've seen a couple of exceptions (like with heirlooms, according to WoWhead). It's annoying, because exceptions mean we still have to spot-check gear. With that said, any animal extensions that had spirit e.g. of the whale, now have versatility in spirit's place.
 
Kirise said:
It's like 99%. I've seen a couple of exceptions (like with heirlooms, according to WoWhead). It's annoying, because exceptions mean we still have to spot-check gear. With that said, any animal extensions that had spirit e.g. of the whale, now have versatility in spirit's place.
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The necklaces which previously had bonus armour/spirit are now versatility.
 
Is anyone looking into weapon enchants? Assuming Mighty Spirit turns into 5 Versatility how is that going to compare to the double Elemental Force I"m using on my rogue now? Or should I be looking for a different enchant entirely?
 
All Spirit in Enchanting becomes Versa of the same value to 10's. That means Casters have it best with Heartsong proc'ing 30 Versa while Physical dmg dealers only get 15 versa procs with Shadowmoon. Everything else is subpar and Ele Force is getting nerfed again in 7.0. Granted this is just PTR testing, it'll take a while once it's all Live and the changes happen to BG's (no more Enchants/procs) to see which comes out ahead.
 
My Priest Atahl (in sig) is now very close to BiS Spirit Gear for 7.0, including the lovely GF'd Crescent Staff. All I'm missing now is 2 Spirit from the correct variant of Willow Boots, 1 Spirit from The One Ring and either Defending/Returning for the final 3 Versa. He's now at 67/97 Spirit and 58.14% Versa (Live but counting the DMF Vial 3% +3 Scroll of Spirit and current +4 Spirit Food, but not counting external Versa Buff). I also had 1062 Health with this build, 13.94% Armor and 4.27% Dodge lol.

ProTip: While it's not always useful or even viable, standing next to a Cooking Fire / Cozy Bonfire does still give you 4 Spirit, but I can't guarantee that'll be 4 Versa in Legion as I had to uninstall PTR when it caused Blue screen of Death last night. Also, Brazier of Dancing Flames does NOT give the Spirit buff. Lastly if you don't have any DMF Vials, use the +3 Scroll of Spirit for 4.715% Versa and it lasts 30 min instead of 20!

On a side note, I found Heartsong to proc within ~12.5 sec of when the previous effect ended. That's a HUGE uptime for 30 Versa come Legion, at least for Casters!

EDIT: If you didn't see my earlier post, I tried Magister's Armor Kit which would've been the only way to get even 1 Versa Enchanted to Gloves but sadly it has a Character Level requirement of 55 and binds the Gloves when applied so can't do it on a high Level toon and trade or through the Trade window either :(

EDIT 2: Just found out that Mistletoe is supposed to give 20 Spirit and doesn't expire though you cannot cast it on yourself. It'll be a while before we can test it unless folks just happen to have it laying around from previous Winter Veils.

Another EDIT: Deviate Fish 'Healthy Spirit' Buff does have a Level requirement higher than 10, each time it cycled through that Buff I got an error. On the plus side, the insta-Heal hit my 10 Hunter for 1090, so that's nice.
 
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Thank you.

Just how good will Versa be compared to primary stats? Is double The One Ring really comparable to Admiral Taylor's and Dread Pirate Ring?
 
Awkwyrd said:
Thank you.

Just how good will Versa be compared to primary stats? Is double The One Ring really comparable to Admiral Taylor's and Dread Pirate Ring?
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You're asking a very difficult question and I can explain why. On Live right now my Disco in full Int/SP gear (the highest a 10 is capable of including GF'd gear) is pretty much unstoppable against anything that can't dispell my Shield since it's normal non-double Multi is ~2000 Health added to my ~1200 Health. Add Heals of ~1400 in 1.02 sec and the sheer amount of Damage he can do with Penance and you get the point.

Fast forward to my brief PTR testing with a full Versa build (actually was missing about 21 spirit as he had Shadowmoon instead of Heartsong and didn't have Defending/Returning plus several 'of Spirit' pcs) and while his dmg reduction is god like he only has ~1000 Health and the Heals were like 400, Shield about 600. Penance did worse dmg than my Live's SP build but Smite did WAY more dmg and it adds a Shield component too.

Bottom line, for non-Instanced PvP and PvE, I'd say for Tanky types and Melee go Versa builds. For Ranged DD and Healers get the 99.71% Crit THEN stack versa out the whazoo to see if it's superior to a Crit/Haste build with a minor in Versa like we all do now. 2x 1-Ring will be superior to Admirals IF you can get Versa high enough imho. By high enough I'm talking about close to 200%, which is certainly doable with outside Buffs, except MM/BM Hunters. And by superior I'm looking at it from the standpoint of having such high dmg reduction that the loss of a Glass build is moot.... because nothing can kill you.
 
Thanks a lot. I'm not great at math. I don't get why each point of Versa is more effective the more you have but I did read that this is so and will look to gear accordingly. I'm really just asking because I can't send my The One Rings over to a realm where I have stupid garrison money on for enchants. I've already enchanted some heirloom hammers with Mark of Shadowmoon and sent them over because I can.
 
Awkwyrd said:
I don't get why each point of Versa is more effective the more you have but I did read that this is so and will look to gear accordingly.
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This is a really good question, and I expect it to come up a lot in the next couple of months. I"ll see if I can explain this in a way that makes sense. I'll start with the short version, then get into a longer version in case people are interested.

The short version: if a hunter needs a certain number of bullets to kill you, damage reduction makes each bullet hurt less, so the hunter needs more bullets. If you get even more damage reduction, it reduces the damage not only of the new bullets, but also on all the previous bullets the hunter had to use to kill you. Every time you get more damage reduction, the number of extra bullets a hunter needs increases exponentially. It's not a linear increase.

In other words, damage reduction is kinda meh up to a certain point. Once you reach that point, every extra bit of damage reduction makes a bigger and bigger difference, until it takes a ridiculous number of bullets to kill you.

Now, here's the longer version.

Let's say we have 100 health and 50% damage reduction. That means every time someone tries to do 100 damage to us, half of it gets dropped (in this case, the damage reduces by 50). Someone has to actually do 200 damage to kill us. In other words, our 50% damage reduction combines with our 100 health to actually give us 200 "effective health". So far, so good.

Now let's say that instead of 50% damage reduction, we have 75% damage reduction. That means every time someone tries to do 100 damage to us, three quarters of it gets cut out i.e. the damage reduces down to 25. So to kill us, someone has to actually do 400 damage to us (the damage reduces to 25, then multipled by 4). In other words, our 75% damage reduction combines with our 100 health to actually give us 400 "effective health". Right here is where we say, hey, waitaminit!

How come we only need 25% *more* damage reduction on top of our original 50%, to get the same effect as that first 50% damage reduction? Just wait, it gets crazier. Let's put more entries in the list:

100 health with 50% damage reduction gives us 200 effective health.
100 health with 66% damage reduction gives us 300 effective health.
100 health with 75% damage reduction gives us 400 effective health.
100 health with 80% damage reduction gives us 500 effective health.
100 health with 83% damage reduction gives us 600 effective health.
100 health with 86% damage reduction gives us 700 effective health.
100 health with 88% damage reduction gives us 800 effective health.
100 health with 89% damage reduction gives us 900 effective health.
100 health with 90% damage reduction gives us 1000 effective health.

Notice how we can increase damage reduction less and less, to get our jumps in effective health? Going from 300 effective health to 400 effective health took an additionl 9% of damage reduction, but going from 700 to 800 only took us 2%!

That's why stacking damage reduction is so powerful. To be sure, we have to easily reach a certain point to make it worthwhile. If we use all of our gear to reach 40% damage reduction, that's going to suck. But if we use all of our gear to reach, say, 65%, or higher, than were talking a big, big difference!

High levels of damage reduction increase the potency of anything that increases or restores your health. If a priest bubbles you with a 200 hp shield, and you have 66% damage reduction, that means the 200 hp shield actually gives you 600 hp! Same thing for heals.

While this likely won't make an impact for 10s in instanced PvP (because it will be much harder to reach the higher levels of damage reduction that make it worthwhile), it could be huge for World PvP and PvE!

For anyone who's interested in the math behind damage reduction, effective health, and choosing between damage reduction and stamina (and wants to see how far back these concepts go in World of Warcraft, when resilience was a thing), check out this article from yesteryear:

https://web.archive.org/web/2013101...g.net/effective-health-resilience-vs-stamina/
 
Kirise said:
This is a really good question, and I expect it to come up a lot in the next couple of months. I"ll see if I can explain this in a way that makes sense. I'll start with the short version, then get into a longer version in case people are interested.

The short version: if a hunter needs a certain number of bullets to kill you, damage reduction makes each bullet hurt less, so the hunter needs more bullets. If you get even more damage reduction, it reduces the damage not only of the new bullets, but also on all the previous bullets the hunter had to use to kill you. Every time you get more damage reduction, the number of extra bullets a hunter needs increases exponentially. It's not a linear increase.

In other words, damage reduction is kinda meh up to a certain point. Once you reach that point, every extra bit of damage reduction makes a bigger and bigger difference, until it takes a ridiculous number of bullets to kill you.

Now, here's the longer version.

Let's say we have 100 health and 50% damage reduction. That means every time someone tries to do 100 damage to us, half of it gets dropped (in this case, the damage reduces by 50). Someone has to actually do 200 damage to kill us. In other words, our 50% damage reduction combines with our 100 health to actually give us 200 "effective health". So far, so good.

Now let's say that instead of 50% damage reduction, we have 75% damage reduction. That means every time someone tries to do 100 damage to us, three quarters of it gets cut out i.e. the damage reduces down to 25. So to kill us, someone has to actually do 400 damage to us (the damage reduces to 25, then multipled by 4). In other words, our 75% damage reduction combines with our 100 health to actually give us 400 "effective health". Right here is where we say, hey, waitaminit!

How come we only need 25% *more* damage reduction on top of our original 50%, to get the same effect as that first 50% damage reduction? Just wait, it gets crazier. Let's put more entries in the list:

100 health with 50% damage reduction gives us 200 effective health.
100 health with 66% damage reduction gives us 300 effective health.
100 health with 75% damage reduction gives us 400 effective health.
100 health with 80% damage reduction gives us 500 effective health.
100 health with 83% damage reduction gives us 600 effective health.
100 health with 86% damage reduction gives us 700 effective health.
100 health with 88% damage reduction gives us 800 effective health.
100 health with 89% damage reduction gives us 900 effective health.
100 health with 90% damage reduction gives us 1000 effective health.

Notice how we can increase damage reduction less and less, to get our jumps in effective health? Going from 300 effective health to 400 effective health took an additionl 9% of damage reduction, but going from 700 to 800 only took us 2%!

That's why stacking damage reduction is so powerful. To be sure, we have to easily reach a certain point to make it worthwhile. If we use all of our gear to reach 40% damage reduction, that's going to suck. But if we use all of our gear to reach, say, 65%, or higher, than were talking a big, big difference!

High levels of damage reduction increase the potency of anything that increases or restores your health. If a priest bubbles you with a 200 hp shield, and you have 66% damage reduction, that means the 200 hp shield actually gives you 600 hp! Same thing for heals.

While this likely won't make an impact for 10s in instanced PvP (because it will be much harder to reach the higher levels of damage reduction that make it worthwhile), it could be huge for World PvP and PvE!

For anyone who's interested in the math behind damage reduction, effective health, and choosing between damage reduction and stamina (and wants to see how far back these concepts go in World of Warcraft, when resilience was a thing), check out this article from yesteryear:

https://web.archive.org/web/2013101...g.net/effective-health-resilience-vs-stamina/
Click to expand...
wow that was a lot to read but yeah I get what ur saying that's helpful information good job on the math
 
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