Controversial: Religion

[Druiddroid]

so the greeks were atheist?



also i think painaid was referring to after the greeks anyways, i mean an atheist back in 1000 AD would probably think the world was flat... or an atheist from any time between roughly 0 to 1500 AD

 

[Cptheal]

tl;dr



-painaid(sp?) is misinformed on the roman empire and christianity, i assigned him some reading homework.



-he also is wrong about hitler being an atheist.



-and further wrong about atheist scientists coming up with the flat earth theory when in actuality the greeks knew the earth was spherical as far back as 4th century bc.



also: "As for the debate between the Church and Galileo...once again this has nothing to do with religion. But it is an interesting study in the framework of mankind and our lust for power. The Church was simply trying to retain its power over society."

- that has everything to do with religion and through religion the power the church was able to hold over the poor and illiterate masses.

MUCH better thanks

 

[Painaid]

that wall of txt crit me for over 9k.

How does this contribute to the thread? I thanked you for being civil in my last response and this sarcasm begins already.

hitler was a catholic.

No. And his actions show he was not Christian.

also ur point about catholics in america not following the pope just means they arent true catholics.

Lol, I totally predicted this. I have nothing else to say.

also the roman empire did fall apart because of christianity. go to your local book store and pick up a book called day of empire by amy chua and start reading on page 50. you dont even have to buy it, just sit and read it...absorb some knowledge.

religion didnt cause its downfall, it was fine with its mix of pagan religions (which catholicism has often absorbed) and the jews...just go read and save me the typing.

Repeating a lie doesn't make it true. The Fall of the Roman Empire was multi-facetted. Your ignorance is abundantly clear when you attempt to attribute the fall of Rome to one single aspect. I'm really not interested in pursuing this sort of topic with you. It's an insult to my own intelligence.



If it makes you feel better to blame religion for the Fall of the Roman Empire, then I'll happily concede the point. Although I'm not sure how that has anything to do with this topic except to poison the well.

clearly you arent very smart.

Oh, look at that. An ad hominem attack...The first sign of when someone realizes they have nothing substantive to say.

the in 4th century BC greeks knew the earth was spherical. ffs do some research before coming here blathering man. wikipedia is but a website away!

I said the theory of a flat earth and its rejection had nothing to do with religious grounds. As I stated with Galileo, the real problem was the Church trying to keep its power over the people Europe. And as you conveniently ignored my point, I will underline it again. Power is a secular force. So really, this argument actually works against you. The Catholic Church as an institution has nothing to do with religion. It is a corrupt bureaucracy that seeks to supplant its power over the people.



The only thing this example shows it that people are naturally corrupt and power-seeking. Religion, along with many other ideas and concepts, are vehicles to achieve that goal.



I'm not sure why you feel the need to just blame every human atrocity on religion. I guess that's something all the cool cats do too. I need to get caught up.

great quote since i ask the same of you. idc what you believe, i just think YOU should investigate. im sure you wont change your mind (lets be honest nobody is changing religions over a thread on TI...) but you will at least learn somethings that i have posted in this thread.

I am a religious studies major, so I think I've done my studying. I'm not sure what education you're into, but it is certainly not Religion or History--that much is certain.

 

[Clairee]

How does this contribute to the thread? I thanked you for being civil in my last response and this sarcasm begins already.



No. And his actions show he was not Christian.



Lol, I totally predicted this. I have nothing else to say.



Repeating a lie doesn't make it true. The Fall of the Roman Empire was multi-facetted. Your ignorance is abundantly clear when you attempt to attribute the fall of Rome to one single aspect. I'm really not interested in pursuing this sort of topic with you. It's an insult to my own intelligence.



If it makes you feel better to blame religion for the Fall of the Roman Empire, then I'll happily concede the point. Although I'm not sure how that has anything to do with this topic except to poison the well.



Oh, look at that. An ad hominem attack...The first sign of when someone realizes they have nothing substantive to say.



I said the theory of a flat earth and its rejection had nothing to do with religious grounds. As I stated with Galileo, the real problem was the Church trying to keep its power over the people Europe. And as you conveniently ignored my point, I will underline it again. Power is a secular force. So really, this argument actually works against you. The Catholic Church as an institution has nothing to do with religion. It is a corrupt bureaucracy that seeks to supplant its power over the people.



The only thing this example shows it that people are naturally corrupt and power-seeking. Religion, along with many other ideas and concepts, are vehicles to achieve that goal.



I'm not sure why you feel the need to just blame every human atrocity on religion. I guess that's something all the cool cats do too. I need to get caught up.



I am a religious studies major, so I think I've done my studying. I'm not sure what education you're into, but it is certainly not Religion or History--that much is certain.

Painaid I ruv jew.

 

[Painaid]

Painaid I ruv jew.

<3. You should get in Hostile vent more and I will too. Ariel gets excited when you get on.

 

[Clairee]

<3. You should get in Hostile vent more and I will too. Ariel gets excited when you get on.

<3 Just let me know when!

 

[Painaid]

<3 Just let me know when!

Im in school library writing sociology essay right now . It sucks

 

[Painaid]

By the way, for anyone interested, here is an interesting article (short and sweet) putting to rest a couple myths about religion that have been brought up here. It's from the Journal of Foreign Policy found here. It's a scholarly article, so it may be above the reading comprehension of some of our beloved trolls here.

 

[Clairee]

Im in school library writing sociology essay right now . It sucks

Poo on you.

I like Sociology though.

 

[Falkor]

No. And his actions show he was not Christian.

his beliefs make him a christian. just like you all already argued that people who dont totally align beliefs with the catholic church are still catholic...well than your own logic allows for hitler to be considered christian.

Repeating a lie doesn't make it true. The Fall of the Roman Empire was multi-facetted. Your ignorance is abundantly clear when you attempt to attribute the fall of Rome to one single aspect. I'm really not interested in pursuing this sort of topic with you. It's an insult to my own intelligence.

you're so blinded by your religion that you wont even read the book and risk expanding your horizons. your ignorance is abundantly clear by avoiding any possible learning. you have no intelligence to insult.

I said the theory of a flat earth and its rejection had nothing to do with religious grounds. As I stated with Galileo, the real problem was the Church trying to keep its power over the people Europe. And as you conveniently ignored my point, I will underline it again. Power is a secular force. So really, this argument actually works against you. The Catholic Church as an institution has nothing to do with religion. It is a corrupt bureaucracy that seeks to supplant its power over the people.[/QUOT]



you are so eager to separate the church and catholicism when they are one and the same. you cant have the church w/o catholicism and you cant have catholicism with out the church. the church used catholicism to spread lies to preserve their power and dupe the ignorant uneducated europeans, i agree. but christianity - religion- gave the church the power in the first place, the church then went corrupted to hold their power. cause & effect, thus christianity is the root of all evil.



[quote name='Painaid']The only thing this example shows it that people are naturally corrupt and power-seeking. Religion, along with many other ideas and concepts, are vehicles to achieve that goal.

if people are all corrupt and power-seeking than religion is bad since it is only used as a tool for such. seems pretty evil. since people aren't naturally good and then could never benefit from religion...they would always be controlled by corrupt people. (using your logic)

I'm not sure why you feel the need to just blame every human atrocity on religion. I guess that's something all the cool cats do too. I need to get caught up.

not sure why you are so eager to blame every human atrocity on atheists (attempted to call out hitler, also listed mao and stalin). geuss thats something all the cool religion studies majors do. i definitely do not need to get caught up. bet they taught you to blame everything on atheists and not mention such "human atrocities" as the spanish inquisition, the crusades, salem witch trials, man the list could go on for days.

I am a religious studies major, so I think I've done my studying. I'm not sure what education you're into, but it is certainly not Religion or History--that much is certain.

cool story bro, im majoring in international relations and have studied history along with religious history. im glad your teachers have brainwashed you into turning a blind eye to atrocities caused by religion, and teaching you doublethink so you can separate the church and catholicism from each other

 

[Painaid]

his beliefs make him a christian. just like you all already argued that people who dont totally align beliefs with the catholic church are still catholic...well than your own logic allows for hitler to be considered christian.

I'm only going by your logic. You can't have it both ways. If you admit Hitler is a Christian, then American Catholics are Catholics too. Pick a side. But I think you see where I'm gong with this -- either way you are self-contradictory and you lose.

you're so blinded by your religion that you wont even read the book and risk expanding your horizons. your ignorance is abundantly clear by avoiding any possible learning. you have no intelligence to insult.

Who said I was religious? And I'll take a look at the book, no doubt. But I've got some essays due before Thanksgiving and with that a long list of books of more urgent need calling me.



What has got me though, that if you take this one book over all the other history books, perhaps it is not me that needs to expand my horizons. Falkor, you're not going to find a history book blaming the downfall of the entire Roman Empire on just religion. Surely by now you understand things are almost always more complicated than that, yes? And surely you know what an unnecessarily strong qualifier is? Your statement would get ripped to shreds by any history professor -- secular or religious. It's just bad scholarship.

you are so eager to separate the church and catholicism when they are one and the same. you cant have the church w/o catholicism and you cant have catholicism with out the church. the church used catholicism to spread lies to preserve their power and dupe the ignorant uneducated europeans, i agree. but christianity - religion- gave the church the power in the first place, the church then went corrupted to hold their power. cause & effect, thus christianity is the root of all evil.

Catholicism is the Church. But the Church is not religion. It is an institution built on the need for power over its people. Nothing more. I'm not exactly a fan of institutional religion either, if you cannot tell.



And I'm glad you agree with me. The Church used religion as a vehicle to achieve their secular goal: power. Read the article I linked. She explains this point nicely.



You're trying to blame religion for a secular sin--greed and power--and it's not adding up.

if people are all corrupt and power-seeking than religion is bad since it is only used as a tool for such. seems pretty evil. since people aren't naturally good and then could never benefit from religion...they would always be controlled by corrupt people. (using your logic)

Religion is not only used for that goal. It is the vehicle to achieve many virtuous ends as well. Surely you're not blaming all religious people for the actions of a few lunatics. In the same sense, you shouldn't blame all the Germans for the actions and intimidation of Hitler. Nor should you blame all Muslims for the actions of a few crazies.



And I object that all people are not naturally good, but that is a different topic altogether. I did say, as you indicated, however, that greed and power is a natural sin for humanity. The real dilemma here, however, is which impulse we act upon. And religion is what promotes all of the virtues that humanity posses. That doesn't mean that it, along with anything else, cannot be corrupted by greed.

not sure why you are so eager to blame every human atrocity on atheists (attempted to call out hitler, also listed mao and stalin). geuss thats something all the cool religion studies majors do. i definitely do not need to get caught up. bet they taught you to blame everything on atheists and not mention such "human atrocities" as the spanish inquisition, the crusades, salem witch trials, man the list could go on for days.

In case you didn't catch it before, that was pure sarcasm to point out how ridiculous and baseless your claims are. So I'm glad you see how ridiculous it was of me to blame such atrocities on atheists. The same thing goes for what you were saying about religion in your earlier post. I think we're making ground.

cool story bro, im majoring in international relations and have studied history along with religious history. im glad your teachers have brainwashed you into turning a blind eye to atrocities caused by religion, and teaching you doublethink so you can separate the church and catholicism from each other

Cool story, indeed. I believe every word.

 

[Painaid]

Poo on you.

I like Sociology though.

I did, until I met this professor. he's so freaking boring. But it's okay though cuz he looks like Jon Voight. Pretty sure I could get my picture taken with him and no one would notice a difference.

 

[Falkor]

I'm only going by your logic. You can't have it both ways. If you admit Hitler is a Christian, then American Catholics are Catholics too. Pick a side. But I think you see where I'm gong with this -- either way you are self-contradictory and you lose.

i was merely using your own logic to prove he was a christian. if you claim you are correct, then hitler was a christian. but i can argue that using my logic he can also be considered christian. for starters christianity and catholicism are two different things. i could make a case that he was christian by using the ideology to back up his personal beliefs (see earlier quote about how he was doing the lords work by slaughtering the jews). since christians follow the bible and not any church hierarchy he could be considered a christian extremist, yet still a christian. even if he were catholic the pope didnt have had the balls to condemn or excommunicate him. since he didnt go against the word of the pope, he would have been a true catholic by my definition

Who said I was religious? And I'll take a look at the book, no doubt. But I've got some essays due before Thanksgiving and with that a long list of books of more urgent need calling me.



What has got me though, that if you take this one book over all the other history books, perhaps it is not me that needs to expand my horizons. Falkor, you're not going to find a history book blaming the downfall of the entire Roman Empire on just religion. Surely by now you understand things are almost always more complicated than that, yes? And surely you know what an unnecessarily strong qualifier is? Your statement would get ripped to shreds by any history professor -- secular or religious. It's just bad scholarship.

well you argue for religion, and you are a religious studies major. guess i leaped before i looked if in fact you arent religious.

im not taking this one book over everything else, there are plenty of books out there that can attribute the fall of the roman empire with its sudden and rather odd conversion to christianity. sure there were other factors that added to its decline, but the main cause was the religious switch. considering this book was in the curriculum in my class studying the history of nations, it obviously didn't get ripped to shreds. the author is the John Duff, Jr. Professor of Law at Yale Law School, and a noted expert in several fields of study. she is definitely qualified to write this book, you cant just write it off as bad scholarship because you dont agree with the subject matter

Catholicism is the Church. But the Church is not religion. It is an institution built on the need for power over its people. Nothing more. I'm not exactly a fan of institutional religion either, if you cannot tell.

christianity built the church and allows for it to still control people, the catholic church became a religion in its self. other religious branches like protestantism are different since they have no real church structure, but individuals can still become corrupt by wielding power over others

And I'm glad you agree with me. The Church used religion as a vehicle to achieve their secular goal: power. Read the article I linked. She explains this point nicely.



You're trying to blame religion for a secular sin--greed and power--and it's not adding up.

yea i agree on that. religion caused corruption of the catholic church. i still dont believe other religions are immune though and i think that the world would not be a worse place w/o religion, in fact it might be better off.

 

[Falkor]

clearly i am wrong and there is a god:



Miss Universe Contestants in Three-Way Sex Tape | TMZ.com

 

[Faceroll]

 

[iaccidentallytwink]

I attended 8 of these in New York City. Shit was SO cash.

 

[nikor0x]

Religion should not be taught in school mainly because some emofag will be like.. "WELL, I'M AN ATHEIST GOD ISN'T REAL, HE COULD BE A SPAGHETTI MONSTER KAHDKLSHDIS

/wrists /wrists."

 

[Cptheal]

i know a kid like that nikor.....

 

[Omgimarogue]

I attended 8 of these in New York City. Shit was SO cash.

dont tell me - IAT = agent pubis!?

 

[Cptheal]

no im agent pubis...ARE YOU SECRET AGENT FLUFICUS?