Gee, where to start? I guess I'll go with the most recent posts and work backwards
Glissade said:
Does this willix guy even play this bracket? I don't understand how anyone can not see how broken BMs are. I have never seen a class this broken since I first started twinking. keg smash that hits the whole group.. guard..5k damage absorb is average and it boost heals plus its unpurgable! wtf!? and they have some of the highest HPs I ever seen while doing all this. Really? how can anyone even think they are ok unless they don't really play in this bracket.
Perplex
Yes, I do. I've been playing it since TBC. I've seen things much worse than BM monks right now (Ferals, for one), and these sorts of imbalances aren't new, especially to this bracket. Prot Wars in MoP? Rogues/Hunters in Cata? Hunters in Wotlk? Take your pick, they were all worse than BM monk is now.
Ohai said:
Willy's definition of broken has always been a flowchart. "Is it in the game and available?" = "Not broken". He either lives in a world where broken literally means non-working game mechanic, or one where he thinks blizzard somehow planned BM monks at 29 to look like this.
This isn't really true, at all. I'm fully aware of what happens in Blizzard development to produce different states of imbalance. I've also happily agreed that BM monks are OP in certain aspects, even going so far as to list out the problems BM monks present to pvp in another thread here on the forums.
My definition of 'broken' changes depending on the context, but it really means one of two things:
1. Something doesn't work. This is generally how the term is used in the video game world. Warriors in Vanilla (as an example) were broken. Their rage generation was abysmal and anyone who played Warrior was a glutton for punishment.
2. Something so over-powered it has a negative effect on the rest of the game. This is generally how the term is used in the Magic: the gathering world. Ravager/Skullclamp Affinity was broken during Mirrodin Block constructed. Every deck that played competitively was either that deck, or a deck designed to counter that deck.
As you can see, these contexts are pretty wildly different. Sometimes, I've seen players using the word 'broken' in the MTG sense, about Wow or another video game. It's an understandable mistake. My usage of the word (especially when talking about Wow), tends to be in reference to things that don't work.
MYT said:
The reason Guard (Monk Bubble is a problem) is because it lasts 30 seconds, can't be dispelled, and has a 30sec CD to cast again. Yes you can work through a 5k bubble...but then you have to work through 5k health, and do that whole 10k in under 30 seconds or they cast guard again. Meanwhile, you're assuming they neither have heals nor that they heal themselves (and they heal better when bubble is up).
Theorycrafting taken to extremes never matches up well with reality of being in game.
Personally I'm preparing for at least one BM to be in our premades because it's an existing class and you have to work around it within acceptable guidelines...but to argue that it's broken is an argument I'm surprised is being made. All the better BMs I know admit it. This doesn't include the 19 alliance team running 10mans with 4 BM's - they seem to think that means they're good instead.
Your points about why BM monks are problematic are something I agree with. I think Guard should have a longer CD, not be affected by AP from bonus armor (in fact, I think Bonus Armor shouldn't work at all below level 90), and be dispellable. However, I also think that certain posters here are blowing things out of proportion when they talk about BM monks. Using the label 'godmode' to describe BM monks is to make a whole set of assumptions relating to gearing a specific way at the loss of other stats, getting lucky crits at the right moment, and even making references to niche scenarios like a 20 stacks FC or PVE content.
I've done quite a bit of lower level pvp since 6.0 launched, and I've never seen a BM monk who has 5k hp, 5k bubbles, and hits for 7.4k damage. It's never happened while I'm around. Most BM monks (gearing for DPS) have between 3-4k HP, significantly smaller bubbles, and only hit for 1-2k crits. My personal experience doesn't jive with the numbers being thrown around here in this thread. Even when I take my monk and spec it for BM (wearing DPS gear), I don't see what these people are claiming happens.
So I can't agree that BM monks are god mode. Ferals on the other hand? Yes, they are.
Franchi said:
Another poster and i might have remained civil, but this is LITERALLY all willy does, make idiotic posts, run to mods when they are called idiotic posts.
He did the same thing on the wow forums for MONTHS before getting banned over there, then circumventing that ban with his son's account to continue shitposting to troll more players into a ban.
This is why failed to pays shouldn't be policing the pay to play section, you dont know the players and you don't know the landscape or history.
Franchi, you're not the kind of person capable of engaging in civil discussion. You claim that I ran to the mods? I haven't even been online since my last post. I don't care what you have to say about me, I don't get offended or hurt by it. You can say whatever you want to, but if you get banned, it's because you broke the forum rules, not because I reported you (or some other silly assumption).
As for making idiotic posts? It's not my problem that you think everything I say is 'idiotic.' That's a Franchi problem that Franchi needs to deal with on his own. The forums are a place for discussion. I'm participating in an ongoing discussion about how people think specs rank in terms of power. You don't like it? You don't have to participate. No one is going to feel bad because Franchi decided to be an adult and not shit-post in hopes of offending Willy into submission.
Grow up dude.
Zeiren1 said:
Statistics - Community - World of Warcraft
i don't even remember ever hitting this high in a game
assuming all these numbers are real then it looks like a 5k monk bubble is nothing to worry about. an opposing monk, feral, spriest should easily be able to take that bubble down right.
Those statistics aren't limited to pvp. They also include pve hits, gimmick mechanics from quests and other in game events, and even items that do damage. Considering the fact that pve allows for 200% crits and pvp only allows for 150% crits, it's hard to say just how hard a BM monk would hit under normal pvp circumstances (barring outliers such as EFC stacks, temporary buffs, and whatnot). So far in 6.0, the only class that has come close to one shotting me are Feral druids, and I have a few characters at 5k + hp. I agree with you that Guard and Keg Smash don't seem very problematic in a BG setting. 1v1? Yeah, it's probably a completely different story.
Good thing the game isn't balanced around duels, amirite?
Franchi said:
No one CAN have a conversation with you. Your idea of a conversation is to throw out all the facts and keep arguing your hipster position.
Franchi, I'm more than willing to admit I'm wrong about something, when someone actually engages with a well-reasoned argument backed up by facts. But when you post just to tell me you think I'm a moron and that I'm wrong because you say so, that really doesn't do much to further a discussion.
Mesikämmen said:
I have a monk @ 29. When I specced it to BM and tested it's damage with my WW gear, Guard was only giving a 1.6k absorb. That's with bonus armor on my belt and boots. I didn't go full retard and stack a bunch of bonus armor through gear and enchants, but that's because it was just a quick test and I didn't want to change out everything about my toon just to switch it back to WW 10 minutes later.
Also, Blizzard has made a big push to change how AoE functions, making most (if not all) of them split damage evenly amongst the number of targets present. There's no real reason why they would exclude Keg Smash, and until I've seen solid testing show otherwise, there's no real reason to believe it doesn't split damage evenly. Other monk abilities do.
