BLACK MAGIC for horde rogue! OP OP OP!

[Falkor]

to get this back on topic a lil bit:

i dont think this enchant is OP for pvp. 1. it only boosts white damage. yes white damage is good, its more dps. but will it REALLY help that much? i think not

2. specials are still capped at energy regen, so you wont be performing more special damage only more white dmg (see #1). oh and since your melee, it wont lower the gcd either.

3. now i dont know for sure, and havent seen anything to c/d on wowhead, but i would think this'll only proc off a poison that does damage (instant, wound, etc.). this in response to glance saying he would use crippling poison on the OH dagger. [see spell description "harmful spells"] is crip classified as harmful?]

4. after reading over all the posts on wowhead it seems black magic only has 1-2ppm. or basically grants 68 static haste. not that OP. epecially considering the chances it procs and you get CC'd and waste the up time, or it procs off a KB/low hp target and again you can't benefit from the full up time.



if it turns out this enchant is OPOPOP (which i think it is not) then keep in mind a shaman could also use this b.c it will proc off FT imbue (and im guessing frostbrand) as well as static shock (pretty unused talent, but w/e) and triggering fire nova apparently. it will also proc off weapons that have an on hit spell effect (a la SF).



i see this as a pve enchant - which it is...and even at endgame hardly anyone uses it - b/c it only boosts white damage which is an endgames #1 source of dps. i think that 65ap, accuracy, or another enchant would benefit a rogue more in pvp.



and as for glances comparison to azzinoth: as it has been stated, those were in pvp used b/c the massive damage, not specifically for the haste. in pve they were wanted for both however.





inb4 your win ratio is X, flag cap ratio is Y, etc. ad hominem attacks which disqualify me from posting my opinion.

 

[Tetrica]

Falkor, what has happened? I actually agree with your post. I didn't believe that would EVER happen.

 

[Taitaih]

Also the Warglaive OH is a beast of an OH with stats and its own enchant plus the glaive bonus (so something like glaive bonus + OH enchant).



With the EAFD/S, you get a standard OH in terms of damage with absolutely no stats and a Black Magic enchant. Whoopie, that's a great comparison.

 

[Tetrica]

Taitaih, I think the case is pretty much won *smile*

 

[tweedledum]

Falkor, what has happened? I actually agree with your post. I didn't believe that would EVER happen.

you must be new here



and, the chant would be nifty in pve assuming you take that 15 energy oh proc talent over remorseless in sub, but the merge of swords and axes under one weapon spec makes flurry axe quite appealing, considering hack&slash's effect, and the proc itself.



ran thrash blade and flurry axe when I leveled my rogue out of 49, it was glorious

 

[Falkor]

hmm. i was hoping for a witty (jk, he never uses wit) response from glance claiming how bad i am and how stupid i am & therefor i cant comment on this. darn, what a let down. but i will file this under epic fail for an overexcited douchebag rogue. hey, have you xferd to ruin yet? or do you still revel in the 'glory days' (not sure there was ever glory on your bg).

 

[glancealot]

it only boosts white damage. yes white damage is good, its more dps. but will it REALLY help that much? i think not

if it only boosted white damage, it wouldn't REALLY help that much.



but that's not what haste does, haste makes you attack faster, thus more poison procs, more SPELL INTERUPTIONS, you can probably fake cast to waste my kick when i am hemo'ing at normal speed, but when i have black magic proc, i am hemo'ing with mainhand 2.0 and offhand 1.1, you are not gonna pull it off.

now i dont know for sure, and havent seen anything to c/d on wowhead, but i would think this'll only proc off a poison that does damage (instant, wound, etc.). this in response to glance saying he would use crippling poison on the OH dagger. [see spell description "harmful spells"] is crip classified as harmful?]

i just assumed crippling poison is harmful. this can be tested.

after reading over all the posts on wowhead it seems black magic only has 1-2ppm. or basically grants 68 static haste. not that OP. epecially considering the chances it procs and you get CC'd and waste the up time, or it procs off a KB/low hp target and again you can't benefit from the full up time.

that's the bane of ALL proc-based enchants in WoW. but you don't see the whole picture here. the biggest advantage of black magic, is that, it procs often even on an offhand, that's not the case for any other proc-based enchant. you basically get a free trinket on an offhand. that's a steal.

if it turns out this enchant is OPOPOP (which i think it is not) then keep in mind a shaman could also use this b.c it will proc off FT imbue (and im guessing frostbrand) as well as static shock (pretty unused talent, but w/e) and triggering fire nova apparently. it will also proc off weapons that have an on hit spell effect (a la SF).

there are endless possibilities with this black magic enchant.

i see this as a pve enchant - which it is...and even at endgame hardly anyone uses it - b/c it only boosts white damage which is an endgames #1 source of dps. i think that 65ap, accuracy, or another enchant would benefit a rogue more in pvp.

again, black magic is crap at 80 for rogues because 250 haste is worth a lot more at 49.

 

[tweedledum]

there's dr on pushback in pvp now



and, haste does increase yellow damage, not directly, but indeed through poisons, and if specced in focused attacks in assassination, or the 35 pointer in combat, both of which restore energy through different factors. not that there's alot of combat/assassination rogues in 49.

 

[Taitaih]

You're not really getting a "free" trinket. You're still sacrificing a potential 120 agi+haste/400 AP for that "free" trinket. That's not free imo, you're still losing something that you would normally have if you had that trinket equipped at 70.

 

[elocon]

but that's not what haste does, haste makes you attack faster, thus more poison procs, more SPELL INTERUPTIONS, you can probably fake cast to waste my kick when i am hemo'ing at normal speed, but when i have black magic proc, i am hemo'ing with mainhand 2.0 and offhand 1.1, you are not gonna pull it off.

Spell pushback can only be done twice per cast...

 

[tweedledum]

as stated before.



hello post count

 

[Samadius]

as stated before.



hello post count

hello twinkytoes jr.?

jk 10 chars ftw

 

[glancealot]

You're not really getting a "free" trinket. You're still sacrificing a potential 120 agi+haste/400 AP for that "free" trinket. That's not free imo, you're still losing something that you would normally have if you had that trinket equipped at 70.

mongoose/berserking don't proc that often from offhand.



plus, why would you go through all the hassle to get a 60+ weapon and put mongoose on it.

 

[tweedledum]

hello twinkytoes jr.?

jk 10 chars ftw

you're missing the point, it was already declared on page 13

 

[Falkor]

if it only boosted white damage, it wouldn't REALLY help that much.



but that's not what haste does, haste makes you attack faster, thus more poison procs, more SPELL INTERUPTIONS, you can probably fake cast to waste my kick when i am hemo'ing at normal speed, but when i have black magic proc, i am hemo'ing with mainhand 2.0 and offhand 1.1, you are not gonna pull it off.

wait, what? instant and wound poison are ppm, so attacking faster shouldnt matter? hemo is not effected b/c you are still capped at energy regen and pushback has DR now so thats not even that big of a deal

i just assumed crippling poison is harmful. this can be tested.

im like 90% sure it wouldnt. testing would be great by anyone with the enchant, but i feel like the slow effect wouldnt be classified as harmful seeing as it does no damage

that's the bane of ALL proc-based enchants in WoW. but you don't see the whole picture here. the biggest advantage of black magic, is that, it procs often even on an offhand, that's not the case for any other proc-based enchant. you basically get a free trinket on an offhand. that's a steal.

yea but how often will it really proc? ive seen 1-2ppm on wowhead, meaning it wouldnt be everytime its off cd like it has been said here. not exactly like a free dst either b/c you give up stats and damage purely for a ppm enchant oh your oh. different than the warglaive which had high damage, dps, and stats as well; or the dst which is a trinket with a proc chance + ap. also dst was primarily use for pve.

there are endless possibilities with this black magic enchant.

i wouldnt say endless, but a lot of things can proc it for a shammy at least. imho it would benefit shaman more b/c even though you give up stats (and damage/speed over a slower weapon...but i like a fast OH for ll anyways) you get the haste which lowers your spell (shock, heal, damage) gcd as well as the speed increase. and its better for shaman b/c they have more ways to proc it vs one ppm poison application

again, black magic is crap at 80 for rogues because 250 haste is worth a lot more at 49.

nah its not crap, i have seen icc lvl rogues using it...but its not the popular choice, namely b/c its only equivalent to ~86 haste; good but better than zerker? prolly not. at least zerker is still the popular choice atm.

 

[tweedledum]

would you go through all the hassle to get a 60+ weapon and put mongoose on it.

you wouldn't, and you don't have to act ignorant on purpose.

 

[Tetrica]

plus, why would you go through all the hassle to get a 60+ weapon and put mongoose on it.

You're missing the point.

 

[elocon]

wait, what? instant and wound poison are ppm, so attacking faster shouldnt matter?

PPM is based on Weapon speed only, not weapon speed after haste soo it whould make a diffrence but its still high proc rate/uptime without haste.



Black Magic proc alot. Gonna go test it now (on my mage).

Result:

35 sec internal cd.

Proced on 1-3 attack (1, 2, 2, 1, 2, 1, 1, 2, 3, 1, 2, 2, 2, 1, 1, 1, 2, 1, 1, 2, 2, 1, 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 3, 1) (30 total procs, 47 ice lance's)

It did take ~1,6 attacks for it to proc (when it was off internal cd ofc.)

 

[Falkor]

PPM is based on Weapon speed only, not weapon speed after haste soo it whould make a diffrence but its still high proc rate/uptime without haste.



Black Magic proc alot. Gonna go test it now (on my mage).

yea i thought it was only on pre-hasted wep speed. but still its not that game breaking to get a few more poison procs + smore white dmg



you'll have to do a very large test sample to get some convincing results on ppm. make sure to have proc watch or something too. oh and mage (where every spell has a chance to proc it) doesnt exactly translate to oh poison procs from a rogue...but it will get some #s on the proc rate over all at least.

 

[glancealot]

wait, what? instant and wound poison are ppm, so attacking faster shouldnt matter? hemo is not effected b/c you are still capped at energy regen and pushback has DR now so thats not even that big of a deal

you don't know game mechanics. do homework before post next time.

im like 90% sure it wouldnt. testing would be great by anyone with the enchant, but i feel like the slow effect wouldnt be classified as harmful seeing as it does no damage

what you think tho is usually wrong...

yea but how often will it really proc? ive seen 1-2ppm on wowhead, meaning it wouldnt be everytime its off cd like it has been said here. not exactly like a free dst either b/c you give up stats and damage purely for a ppm enchant oh your oh. different than the warglaive which had high damage, dps, and stats as well; or the dst which is a trinket with a proc chance + ap. also dst was primarily use for pve.

a lot.

i wouldnt say endless, but a lot of things can proc it for a shammy at least. imho it would benefit shaman more b/c even though you give up stats (and damage/speed over a slower weapon...but i like a fast OH for ll anyways) you get the haste which lowers your spell (shock, heal, damage) gcd as well as the speed increase. and its better for shaman b/c they have more ways to proc it vs one ppm poison application

as if you know the shaman class, dude, wake up, you don't know any class and you are bad at this game. we have already established this in the 70-79 section.

nah its not crap, i have seen icc lvl rogues using it...but its not the popular choice, namely b/c its only equivalent to ~86 haste; good but better than zerker? prolly not. at least zerker is still the popular choice atm.

you mentioned that it's equivalent to ~68haste earlier, now its 86...do you just pull numbers outa your @ss? plus, how did you get 68/86 to begin with?



you know, i should have put in the title of my thread: idiots and Falkor need not reply.