BLACK MAGIC for horde rogue! OP OP OP!
- Thread starter glancealot
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Alkaholic
OG
Boring...Tetrica said:
...I rather wait till he has 3 other people on him and then stun lock him while they beat on him. Hopefully remember my kick key bind since I play my rogue every other week. And pray that those other bums can kill him. But if u're not going after ur friends/crossfaction guildies in wsg, what's the point...
Theme
OG
I recently accuired this to my 49 rogue and I can confirm it procs from crippling poison too. So basicly its going to proc few second after coming from cd pretty much always. Id say its atleast a decent option for off hand enchant, as the dagger itself isnt that terrible and the enchants procs way more than anything else you could put on your off hand, 30ish % haste isnt anything to laugh at. Although its true berserking would offer more burst, but the up time of it is ridiculous.
Falkor
Twink Info Legend
Theme said:
its a decent dagger at best unenchanted - fast, good dps, but no stats. the only reason to use it is for lvl60 enchants considering otherwise its just a decent dagger with no stats. speaking of procs...you dont need one in ur OH. you can do pure agi, weapon chains, accuracy, or 65AP
Theme said:
in pvp it is. we already talked about how ungamebreaking it is to autoattack faster. ex: it really wont help you kill anything you cant already, or make you op.
Theme
OG
Well, 30% more autoattacks is a decent burst. Only enchant I could imagine would be gamebreaking is berserker at right place, but as said its too unreliable. If your going for passive stats the black magic is as good as anything if not better. No its not wtf awesum, but its as good as anything else. I dont understand the downgrading, its one of your best options to put on the dagger.
Falkor
Twink Info Legend
65ap > black magic. 30% more auto attacks doesnt really equal burst, its actually sustained damage not burst (unless all those uber white hits manage to crit too, then its some burst)
in cata this will be a good enchant since haste is being changed to increase energy/runes/focus/mana (for pallys/enh shaman who spec properly in cata)
in cata this will be a good enchant since haste is being changed to increase energy/runes/focus/mana (for pallys/enh shaman who spec properly in cata)
Theme
OG
There isnt actually any kind of rule that said "it cannot be burst if its white, nor it can be burst if it doesnt crit". From top of my head Id say youll do atleast 30% of your damage in whites as rogue, propably more. The proc equals 30% more whites for 10sec which equals 10% more damage for 10sec, which in my books equals burst. Very rough I know, but you get the picture.
As a proc its quite bursty. If it was that 65 haste passive, which is its value in pve, then it would be sustained increase.
EDIT: And as your are your self suggesting a statistic enchant on its place, I dont see the big deal here. Black magic is definitely more bursty than 65ap and most propably also more dmg in long run.
Neratho
OG
You don't get the whole point, don't you?
Try to gain only a tiny bit of advantage from Black Magic if you're fighting a Mage, Hunter, Lock... Anything that can and will kite you. 65 AP is always there. If you use garrote, it's there. If you use Premed-CS-Eviscerate it's there. If you can autoattack someone for 10 seconds, it's freaking there. Don't get me wrong, I see your point, but that only applies for PvE scenarios. You could say it's the same for mongoose/zerker on OH and I would agree with you. Proccs on OH are just meeeeh for 49 rogues in my opinion.
By the way: burst is about seconds. You won't burst someone down with 2s mainhand attacks, won't you?
Try to gain only a tiny bit of advantage from Black Magic if you're fighting a Mage, Hunter, Lock... Anything that can and will kite you. 65 AP is always there. If you use garrote, it's there. If you use Premed-CS-Eviscerate it's there. If you can autoattack someone for 10 seconds, it's freaking there. Don't get me wrong, I see your point, but that only applies for PvE scenarios. You could say it's the same for mongoose/zerker on OH and I would agree with you. Proccs on OH are just meeeeh for 49 rogues in my opinion.
By the way: burst is about seconds. You won't burst someone down with 2s mainhand attacks, won't you?
Theme
OG
Actually for a scenario where your being kited, black magic procs pretty much instantly you get to touch your target while icd runs off while your being kited, so its there even more so than the 65ap.
But yes I get your point, I just think your making it too much of "haste is for pve" type of thing, damage is damage no matter where it comes from. I dont see how procs on off hand differ in anyway from procs on mainhand except they proc less, which isnt the scenario with black magic.
And burst is about the amount of dmg you can deal without your enemy being able to react, which in case of a rogue would be your standard cs+ks opener for example, in which scenario black magic would yeld you a nice junk of extra dmg.
But yes I get your point, I just think your making it too much of "haste is for pve" type of thing, damage is damage no matter where it comes from. I dont see how procs on off hand differ in anyway from procs on mainhand except they proc less, which isnt the scenario with black magic.
And burst is about the amount of dmg you can deal without your enemy being able to react, which in case of a rogue would be your standard cs+ks opener for example, in which scenario black magic would yeld you a nice junk of extra dmg.
Neratho
OG
CS+KS=10 seconds. Your MH hits first -> OH later -> let's assume first OH swing proccs BM.
Does anyone know how the haste would affect the MH that's on the 2,5s swingtimer? Would it instantly reduce it or wait for the next swing? If the latter is the case, you would gain close to no benefit from BM.
Does anyone know how the haste would affect the MH that's on the 2,5s swingtimer? Would it instantly reduce it or wait for the next swing? If the latter is the case, you would gain close to no benefit from BM.
Falkor
Twink Info Legend
Theme said:
you had me until the edit. i disagree there since 65 ap increases your white damage but also your special damage beyond what you'd get with black magic. 10% more white damage over 10 seconds is not game breaking (1% more damage a second for 10sec). it will not allow you to kill any class that you wont already have the ability to kill. 65 ap on the other hand can give that extra little burst on an ambush + evis to knock someone off. it statically boosts the damage from ambush, white damage, and evis & allows for higher burst. if you take the stunlock route it's boosting each white hit while the target is stunlocked (compared to blackmagic which may or may not even be up). also increases your garrote/rupture damage if you go the bleed kiting route. 65 ap is a much more versitle enchant and benefits the rogue in every situation
Falkor
Twink Info Legend
white damage is a wholllle lot less important in pvp compared to pve. so its really not that great and there are better enchants imo. and the main point is that it is not OP like glacelot would like to have believed. decent choice, but if i were a horde rogue/faction changing i would do 65ap
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