Roguelord-US
Legend
Are assassins blades still BiS Daggers for rogues ??
BiS Daggers for rogues
- Thread starter Roguelord-US
- Start date
Jetlife
Legend
Last edited by a moderator:
Cipe
Legend
Why are they bis over balanced heartseeker?
artonkn
aaaaa
Jetlife
Legend
idk maybe mathematically cuz of EF's with faster speed factored potentially does more but not on my top end hits from what ive tested
want my ambush to be highest nothin else matters 4 meedit: TBH if you know the math post it, enlighten the group
Last edited by a moderator:
Goesid
Twink Info Legend
Normalization - WoWWiki - Your guide to the World of Warcraftidk maybe mathematically cuz of EF's with faster speed factored potentially does more but not on my top end hits from what ive tested
edit: TBH if you know the math post it, enlighten the group
Cipe
Legend
Please elaborate. Which one is then better, Balanced Heartseeker or Tail Spike?
Jetlife
Legend
show the resulting number when plugging in those numbers being higher using heartseeker and why it would be better as a result of the end values. cuz based off just what ive tested in game, my ambushes seem to bigger with tail spike
aka actually justify what you're trying to prove as a point.
basically just looking for verification of if that actually makes balanced heartseeker better through actual calculations, then those of us that didn't know any better can alter our choice of weapons
after testing a bit seems like heartseeker might be better but would b good if someone with thorough understanding of the concept (arkant) did the calculations for it would b sickk so we kno for sure
goblin screwdriver is good too but if normalization effects 1.7 weps specifically to higher dmg then id assume heartseeker/scouts blade is best
Last edited by a moderator:
You must be experiencing some kind of placebo effect if you're seeing a significant difference in your Ambushes, Jetlife.
Your base damage doesn't benefit your Ambush damage whatsoever. Ambush is one of many abilities that has been a 'normalized' instant attack.
Your base damage (what you're seeing in the character pane) only benefits your white hits and that's it.
With Tail spike you only gain 1 agility. With Heartseeker you gain 1 Hit and 0.9 Melee DPS.
Normalization refers to the attack power bonus that is applied to instant weapon attacks. Back in vanilla, slower weapons received a larger multiplier and as a result, slower weapons with lower dps often outperformed weapons with higher dps.
Now, most instant attacks have been 'normalized'. This meaning that all daggers use the same coefficient (regardless of speed) when applying the attack power multiplier to a backstab or an ambush in this case.
With that being said, you're going to want to use the highest DPS weapon.
There is no math that needs to be done.
Sources:
Weapon damage - WoWWiki - Your guide to the World of Warcraft
Normalization - Wowpedia - Your wiki guide to the World of Warcraft
Normalization - WoWWiki - Your guide to the World of Warcraft
Item Comparison Tool - World of Warcraft
Your base damage doesn't benefit your Ambush damage whatsoever. Ambush is one of many abilities that has been a 'normalized' instant attack.
Your base damage (what you're seeing in the character pane) only benefits your white hits and that's it.
With Tail spike you only gain 1 agility. With Heartseeker you gain 1 Hit and 0.9 Melee DPS.
Normalization refers to the attack power bonus that is applied to instant weapon attacks. Back in vanilla, slower weapons received a larger multiplier and as a result, slower weapons with lower dps often outperformed weapons with higher dps.
Now, most instant attacks have been 'normalized'. This meaning that all daggers use the same coefficient (regardless of speed) when applying the attack power multiplier to a backstab or an ambush in this case.
With that being said, you're going to want to use the highest DPS weapon.
There is no math that needs to be done.
Sources:
Weapon damage - WoWWiki - Your guide to the World of Warcraft
Normalization - Wowpedia - Your wiki guide to the World of Warcraft
Normalization - WoWWiki - Your guide to the World of Warcraft
Item Comparison Tool - World of Warcraft
Last edited by a moderator:
Weapon speed also bears no effect on enchants such as Elemental Force. It was hotfixed 2 years ago and changed to 10 Real PPM.
"This Real PPM is increased by your haste %. (The highest of your melee, ranged, or spell haste is chosen.)"
"Regardless of how you're attacking or healing, slow or fast, with DoT's or direct heals, whatever, you can expect to get the same proc frequency, on average."
For more info:
Windsong and Elemental Force Information - Forums - World of Warcraft
http://wowpedia.org/Real_PPM
Last edited by a moderator:
Jetlife
Legend
ty for explaining shit. n ya i was revisiting testing it today and i did indeed see that heartseeker was doing higher numbers. i just never actually knew at all whatsoever about the normalization thing even to begin with.
but honestly since the item with highest DPS is best in slot, this would/should ultimately mean scouts blade http://us.battle.net/wow/en/item/20441 should be best in slot for high end hit specifically
Last edited by a moderator:
Yeah, I had to research the normalization to better understand it and be able to explain it clearly.
Nice find, I've personally never really focused on my Rogue after Cata and since then have just been updating slowly and following the norm. i/e what Curley used.
Gains for Sent's is 1 Agi, 2 Stam, 0.2 Melee DPS.
Gains for Heartseeker is 3 Crit rating (1.01%) and 1 Hit.
Using my basic knowledge of why Curley chose to roll full is crit is because it is highly benefitial, not only to your auto attacks but your Elemental Force procs (they can crit).
Thus, you can arguably say that Heartseeker is still better.
Last edited by a moderator:
Livingforce
Member
Good old scouts blade lol.