BfA Rogue Gear/Spec Discussion

lelz said:
haste = energy regen right? so why is everyone ignoring haste on rogue?
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Rogues are usually gunned down when they break stealth. So I’d imagine crit / vers is optimal for what you need to do once you throw in that’s cheap shot. Haste would probably be good in a premade situation where you can except heals to be coming
 
lelz said:
haste = energy regen right? so why is everyone ignoring haste on rogue?
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Rogues in 19 pvp are very bursty. The goal is to kill something before cheapshot expires, or at least get them low enough that you can finish them off shortly after. In a prolonged fight, haste is going to mean more SS (and more ele force procs), but its usually not a ton. Energy regen is 10/s base, increased by haste. So haste of 10% means an extra 1/s. Given how much SS costs (35 IIRC?) - you're looking at 1 extra sinister strike after 35 seconds of combat. At 50% haste, you'd be looking at one after 7 seconds - which is usually the length of a fight.

So its really just *slightly* faster SS's. 10% haste is 1 second faster. 20% is 2 seconds faster. Those will compound over time, but we ain't got time for that.
 
Veechard said:
Rogues are usually gunned down when they break stealth. So I’d imagine crit / vers is optimal for what you need to do once you throw in that’s cheap shot. Haste would probably be good in a premade situation where you can except heals to be coming
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necroaqua said:
Rogues in 19 pvp are very bursty. The goal is to kill something before cheapshot expires, or at least get them low enough that you can finish them off shortly after. In a prolonged fight, haste is going to mean more SS (and more ele force procs), but its usually not a ton. Energy regen is 10/s base, increased by haste. So haste of 10% means an extra 1/s. Given how much SS costs (35 IIRC?) - you're looking at 1 extra sinister strike after 35 seconds of combat. At 50% haste, you'd be looking at one after 7 seconds - which is usually the length of a fight.

So its really just *slightly* faster SS's. 10% haste is 1 second faster. 20% is 2 seconds faster. Those will compound over time, but we ain't got time for that.
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thank you both for responding!
 
Assas seems like the better spec to me, with poison knife the slow isn't really needed because of the elemental force procs, both specs are def viable but from the bgs I have played as Assas it seems like that spec comes out on top and it's honestly more fun to play vs outlaw.
 
quinn50 said:
Assas seems like the better spec to me, with poison knife the slow isn't really needed because of the elemental force procs, both specs are def viable but from the bgs I have played as Assas it seems like that spec comes out on top and it's honestly more fun to play vs outlaw.
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It may be more fun (subjective), it doesn't come out on top in terms of burst damage - which is where rogues shine. Everything needs to be dead quickly before heals can come in - and garrote/poison take a while to do their damage.

The slow is needed to avoid getting kited by anything with a slow (hunters, other rogues, shamans, etc). It also lets YOU kite (other rogues, warriors, etc). Its also great utility to have a ranged slow that is somewhat spammable when fighting a druid EFC.
 
RyanK said:
Idk if this is the correct thread to post this, if not let me know, but I was wondering if this build is good or I should switch things up..

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/character/stormrage/Spëctrë

I have the 7-7 Feet of the Lynx and Agile Boots I can replace the boots with
I have the green pants I can switch the pants out for too.
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Try swapping out the enchant on your cloak to +4 Pvp power, does a little more damage than the agility. Same goes with your bracer enchant, swap it to +3 attack power.
1 AP = 1 Agility :)
 
quinn50 said:
Assas seems like the better spec to me, with poison knife the slow isn't really needed because of the elemental force procs, both specs are def viable but from the bgs I have played as Assas it seems like that spec comes out on top and it's honestly more fun to play vs outlaw.
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Just no. In 95% of the encounters we are in, burst > sustained damage over a one minute period. The ranged slow is most certainly needed, and can be a game changer (on a regular basis).

RyanK said:
Idk if this is the correct thread to post this, if not let me know, but I was wondering if this build is good or I should switch things up..

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/character/stormrage/Spëctrë

I have the 7-7 Feet of the Lynx and Agile Boots I can replace the boots with
I have the green pants I can switch the pants out for too.
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I like the vers heavy build. Knowing that you are running a similar build as mine, prioritizing agility without losing too much stam.. I would suggest you ditch your gloomshroud for the quickblade pvp chest, until you can get a level 19 scaled gloom. I would also change your bracer enchant to “+1 stats” as it currently gives +2 to stats.

Sairentokira said:
Try swapping out the enchant on your cloak to +4 Pvp power, does a little more damage than the agility. Same goes with your bracer enchant, swap it to +3 attack power.
1 AP = 1 Agility :)
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That is incorrect. 1 agi > 1 AP as agility gives dodge. I would say you ARE correct in that 3AP > 2 agi, but +2 to stats may be a better option in this build.
 
i think im right 2 assume about 1 agi = 2.5 vers (ive been going mostly off tooltip dmgs if anyone can give me an exact number big appreciate).

the toughest thing right now is equating how valuable crit is, rn i value agi/vers a lot higher, but i'm unsure at what point crit gains value

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/character/bleeding-hollow/saxx

this is my current setup, im pre sure my tooltip damage is the highest or close 2 out of any rogue right now, and i dont think i'm even close 2 bis yet, im pretty high on the adaptable suffix gear which seems pre hard to come by but i think its the best.

i also really really like swapping between para cloak with agi to para cloak with vers/speed + minor speed and catseye goggles on in stealth, its such an advantage to be faster than other rogues and have better detection in stealth.

also could any rogue nerd help me with a couple numbers?
2427f5f1dce01d19668e9a231d9dc23a.png



187a8b1ab320fbd57a1d32e5045558b0.png


going purely off the offensive numbers which is better between these helms? i notice "weapon dps" is higher on the blue helm but my tooltip damage is 1 higher with goggles so im not sure which is better.
 
saxxon said:
i think im right 2 assume about 1 agi = 2.5 vers (ive been going mostly off tooltip dmgs if anyone can give me an exact number big appreciate).

the toughest thing right now is equating how valuable crit is, rn i value agi/vers a lot higher, but i'm unsure at what point crit gains value

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/character/bleeding-hollow/saxx

this is my current setup, im pre sure my tooltip damage is the highest or close 2 out of any rogue right now, and i dont think i'm even close 2 bis yet, im pretty high on the adaptable suffix gear which seems pre hard to come by but i think its the best.

i also really really like swapping between para cloak with agi to para cloak with vers/speed + minor speed and catseye goggles on in stealth, its such an advantage to be faster than other rogues and have better detection in stealth.

also could any rogue nerd help me with a couple numbers?
2427f5f1dce01d19668e9a231d9dc23a.png



187a8b1ab320fbd57a1d32e5045558b0.png


going purely off the offensive numbers which is better between these helms? i notice "weapon dps" is higher on the blue helm but my tooltip damage is 1 higher with goggles so im not sure which is better.
Click to expand...
Which addons are you using to see all that information?
 
RyanK said:
Idk if this is the correct thread to post this, if not let me know, but I was wondering if this build is good or I should switch things up..

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/character/stormrage/Spëctrë

I have the 7-7 Feet of the Lynx and Agile Boots I can replace the boots with
I have the green pants I can switch the pants out for too.
Click to expand...

Very solid. Theres several slots where you can sacrifice some stam/secondaries for more agi, depends on how much you want pure agility. The boots you mentioned. Prospector woolies are a compromise between pure agi and balanced stats at 9agi/9stam. I'd also say that the dungeon satchel ring (with verse for secondaries) is better than the argus ring. And as mentioned, the unscaled gloomshroud isn't quite BiS. Keep an eye out for the scaled version, BG crate, or scaled prospector chest (9agi/9stam).

Sairentokira said:
Which addons are you using to see all that information?
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DejaCharStats. A must for anyone who cares about low level gear.

saxxon said:
i think im right 2 assume about 1 agi = 2.5 vers (ive been going mostly off tooltip dmgs if anyone can give me an exact number big appreciate).
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Thats the same rough conversion rate I got earlier. I think its pretty safe to use that unless someone does some target dummy testing to see actual damage output...there might be something in the way ele force scales that makes verse a bit better.

saxxon said:
the toughest thing right now is equating how valuable crit is, rn i value agi/vers a lot higher, but i'm unsure at what point crit gains value

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/character/bleeding-hollow/saxx

this is my current setup, im pre sure my tooltip damage is the highest or close 2 out of any rogue right now, and i dont think i'm even close 2 bis yet, im pretty high on the adaptable suffix gear which seems pre hard to come by but i think its the best.

i also really really like swapping between para cloak with agi to para cloak with vers/speed + minor speed and catseye goggles on in stealth, its such an advantage to be faster than other rogues and have better detection in stealth.
Click to expand...

I definitely have a second cloak with verse/speed and boots with minor speed. Sometimes you need it. Im going to have to make a pair of catseye goggles. I had them on my 29 waaaaay back in vanilla or TBC - haven't thought about them in a long time.

saxxon said:
also could any rogue nerd help me with a couple numbers?
2427f5f1dce01d19668e9a231d9dc23a.png



187a8b1ab320fbd57a1d32e5045558b0.png


going purely off the offensive numbers which is better between these helms? i notice "weapon dps" is higher on the blue helm but my tooltip damage is 1 higher with goggles so im not sure which is better.
Click to expand...

@Bestworld was looking at the diff between goggles and ilvl 30 invasion helm in another thread. Can't remember which one...theres been a few gearing threads. Basically with the 8agi being the same approx value as the 20 verse, the ~12 secondaries really make the invasion helm a bit better. They are pretty close though. And of course, keep the other helm for FCing.
 
@saxxon I believe the Warforged helm to be better than the engineer goggles for pure offense, following the formula 8 agility = 20 vers, and you get the extra crit and haste.

I think crit is going to be a very undervalued stat for rogue this expansion. Right now I think that 3-4 crit = 1 Agility... 3 being 0.9% crit and 4 being 1.2% crit. This is of course purely theoretical, and still needs to be tested.

Since Saxx already linked his fully offensive build I'll show everyone my "opening mid / skirmish" build-- which is more stam and vers heavy so that you don't get rolled when you open mid or are in a prolonged fight. This build makes use of higher HP to get the most value from the Crimson Vial ability.

Opening Mid / Skirmish Build

On an ending note, I'll probably be using Sporid Cape instead of Parachute Cloak for this build once I actually get one. I'll also probably switch my bracer enchant to 2 stats for the extra stamina.
 
 
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@necroaqua how much agi/vers/stam do you recommend I aim for for an over all well rounded build? I have a stam/mid fight build and a pure agi build already, so I was curious about a all around build
 
RyanK said:
@necroaqua how much agi/vers/stam do you recommend I aim for for an over all well rounded build? I have a stam/mid fight build and a pure agi build already, so I was curious about a all around build
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I honestly don't know. I don't think there are any breakpoints to aim for - its just what you feel comfortable with. Maybe someone will come up with something like "you need 1.2k hp to survive the average rogue opener" or something and that could come into play, but it really depends.

But in general, the stam/mid fight build is probably the all around build. You can also have a FC build with as much stam/verse as you can get.
 
necroaqua said:
I honestly don't know. I don't think there are any breakpoints to aim for - its just what you feel comfortable with. Maybe someone will come up with something like "you need 1.2k hp to survive the average rogue opener" or something and that could come into play, but it really depends.

But in general, the stam/mid fight build is probably the all around build. You can also have a FC build with as much stam/verse as you can get.
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I have just under 1.2k HP and I find I can't handle taking much damage at all, especially if a rogue opens on me with a saltwater pot I may as well kiss my ass goodbye.

The joys of building a glass cannon
 
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