necroaqua
Grandfathered
Hey all,
I’m working on the BfA 19 Quick Start Guide as the dust settles and we see whats been hotfixed and what changes actually happened. Since I don’t play as much anymore (and I’m not really interested in leveling to 300 engineering on every class) - I’m going to be making a post for each class to start discussion and figure out gear, talents, specs, etc. I’ll be taking the results from each thread and making a guide from them. For the guide, I’m looking for gear available now - but grandfathered gear is encouraged in these discussions.
First class is the one I know the best: Rogue. For some backreading, here is @Bestworld ‘s beta rogue discussion - most of which is still very applicable. Also @Swoops has a thread on some of the new enchant scaling.
Specs. First look seems that the specs haven’t changed much since legion. Outlaw really only changed the name of Saber Slash back to Sinister Strike (and everyone will continue to use SS without noticing). Outlaw is going to be the same powerhouse that it has been, with high utility and relatively high sustained damage along with a slow from pistol shot. Outlaw will likely be the primary pick. Weaponmaster will likely be the best pick, as a double SS hit is great. Quick Draw seems like it might be worth exploring, especially if combo points are important. Ghostly strike could be an option as well for opening on EFCs and downing them in 10 seconds. I’m definitely leaning towards weaponmaster still.
Subtlety - I think subtlety has a chance to be used as a high damage option. Its the only spec with an “ambush” with shadowstrike. Backstab works well for chasing and dealing damage from behind. With no slow, its going to be iffy playing solo...but pairing with someone who has a slow...or perhaps a engineering trinket will help. Weaponmaster has a chance for shadowstrike/backstab to double hit - which could be a VERY strong opener. Find Weakness helps you bypass 40% armor for 10s when opening. Gloomblade ignores armor and removes the need to be behind someone for maximum damage. On paper this all sounds interesting, but I have a feeling it’ll just be overshadowed by outlaw.
Assassination - Garrote and Deadly poison will make for some heavy dot spam. With mark of the hidden satyr and elemental force, a dot build could be quite interesting. Without a slow, its not going to keep up with outlaw. Fun, but remains to be seen how viable it is. Master poisoner seems like the talent to take. Perhaps blindside will be good as an execute, but 19 rogues don’t have mutilate yet to really take advantage.
Gear:
Head - Only a few viable options in my mind.
Neck - Anything with agi is almost certainly better than the new secondaries-only options. Enchant is going to be Mark of the Hidden Satyr.
Shoulders - Very few options as only heirloom shoulders can be enchanted.
Back - Parachute cloak for full offense, or something else for FCing. Theres a 3agi/7armor enchant or the 1 verse and 2% movespeed. May want one of each.
Bracers - Not too many options here. Limited enchants that I still need to research.
Gloves - Glove reinforcements and a +agi set. Will depend on agi vs secondaries.
Belt - Minor differences here. Mostly secondary choices.
Legs - With the new scaling, MoP leg armor on BoEs are back.
Boots - Minor Speed is still king. Maybe stam for FC stacks set or agi for bursting down a stunned target.
Rings - We want agi rings instead of new secondary-only rings. Any +1 verse enchant.
Trinkets - Lots to play around with here due to engineering. Heirlooms with stats, heirlooms with good on-use, or engineering with good abilities.
Mainhand (Sword/Mace/Axe/Fist) - With speed normalization, highest ilvl is going to have best weapon damage. Elemental force is the enchant of choice.
Mainhand (Daggers) - Weapon damage is important. Ele force is the enchant of choice probably. Haven’t looked at weapon damage/straight agi for openers.
Offhand - We mostly care about stats here. AFAIK offhand speed (aka sword vs dagger) doesn’t matter. Elemental force.
While GF’d gear isn’t part of the quick guide, it looks like theres a ton of GFd options. Warforged invasion gear is mostly still good. Warforged invasion weapons will have the best weapon damage and be really good mainhand. They give haste/mastery though, which is rather meh - so maybe a high agi sword/dagger offhand over them. Old things like AGM, signet of argus, trailblazer boots, etc are all solid. Does the old school insignia work on a separate CD than the inherited version?
Theres been some rumors about playing an "unholy" build. Reducing opponent damage by procs. Might be pretty gimmicky for duels, but could also be useful for peeling. GF’d Cursed Felblade. Unholy enchant. Howling Blade. Are there any others? Probably more fun than good.
Stat priority. For secondaries, verse > crit > haste. Agility is better than the secondaries, but I'm not sure by how much. My *very* quick testing shows a full 5 pt dispatch as 405 damage in my setup. with no neck. Equipping an heirloom neck with 4 agi gets to 415. Equipping a neck with no agi and 5 verse gets to 410. So 4 agi was +10 and 5 verse was +5. So 4agi = 10 verse, so I'd say a very rough starting point is 1 agi is worth 2.5 verse as far as dealing damage.
Thoughts on specs? Gear I missed? Questions about GFd gear? Go.
I’m working on the BfA 19 Quick Start Guide as the dust settles and we see whats been hotfixed and what changes actually happened. Since I don’t play as much anymore (and I’m not really interested in leveling to 300 engineering on every class) - I’m going to be making a post for each class to start discussion and figure out gear, talents, specs, etc. I’ll be taking the results from each thread and making a guide from them. For the guide, I’m looking for gear available now - but grandfathered gear is encouraged in these discussions.
First class is the one I know the best: Rogue. For some backreading, here is @Bestworld ‘s beta rogue discussion - most of which is still very applicable. Also @Swoops has a thread on some of the new enchant scaling.
Specs. First look seems that the specs haven’t changed much since legion. Outlaw really only changed the name of Saber Slash back to Sinister Strike (and everyone will continue to use SS without noticing). Outlaw is going to be the same powerhouse that it has been, with high utility and relatively high sustained damage along with a slow from pistol shot. Outlaw will likely be the primary pick. Weaponmaster will likely be the best pick, as a double SS hit is great. Quick Draw seems like it might be worth exploring, especially if combo points are important. Ghostly strike could be an option as well for opening on EFCs and downing them in 10 seconds. I’m definitely leaning towards weaponmaster still.
Subtlety - I think subtlety has a chance to be used as a high damage option. Its the only spec with an “ambush” with shadowstrike. Backstab works well for chasing and dealing damage from behind. With no slow, its going to be iffy playing solo...but pairing with someone who has a slow...or perhaps a engineering trinket will help. Weaponmaster has a chance for shadowstrike/backstab to double hit - which could be a VERY strong opener. Find Weakness helps you bypass 40% armor for 10s when opening. Gloomblade ignores armor and removes the need to be behind someone for maximum damage. On paper this all sounds interesting, but I have a feeling it’ll just be overshadowed by outlaw.
Assassination - Garrote and Deadly poison will make for some heavy dot spam. With mark of the hidden satyr and elemental force, a dot build could be quite interesting. Without a slow, its not going to keep up with outlaw. Fun, but remains to be seen how viable it is. Master poisoner seems like the talent to take. Perhaps blindside will be good as an execute, but 19 rogues don’t have mutilate yet to really take advantage.
Gear:
Head - Only a few viable options in my mind.
- Master Engineer’s Goggles - 23 stam, 20 verse. Going to be hard to beat
- Heirloom - 6 agi, 9 stam, 8 haste - probably the best agility option. Good until you get goggles
Neck - Anything with agi is almost certainly better than the new secondaries-only options. Enchant is going to be Mark of the Hidden Satyr.
- Eternal Woven Ivy Necklace - 4 agi, 6 stam, 5 verse and on-use heal
- Manari Heirloom - 6 stam, ? secondaries and on-use sprint. For flag carrying or field crossing?
- WSG neck - 6 agi, 6 stam. Possible secondary option depending on how strong agi vs versatility is
Shoulders - Very few options as only heirloom shoulders can be enchanted.
- Heirloom shoulders w/ high lvl shoulder enchant
Back - Parachute cloak for full offense, or something else for FCing. Theres a 3agi/7armor enchant or the 1 verse and 2% movespeed. May want one of each.
- Parachute Cloak - 10 agi. Best damage and the slowfall can be useful.
- Heirloom/Dungeon/Satchel cloak - 4agi, 6stam, secondaries. Good to have something for FCing.
- Gloomshroud - 9agi, 9stam, 6 crit
- BG crate - 7 agi, 10 stam, ~9-10 secondaries
- heirloom/dungeon - 6 agi, 9 stam, ~8 secondaries
- Dark leather tunic - 10agi. Maybe for a full glass cannon set?
- Prospect Chest - 9agi, 9stam. Poor man's gloomshroud.
Bracers - Not too many options here. Limited enchants that I still need to research.
- BG crate/heirloom/dungeon - 4agi, 6 stam, ~4-6 secondaries
- Forest Leather Bracers - 7agi. Full glass cannon set.
Gloves - Glove reinforcements and a +agi set. Will depend on agi vs secondaries.
- Gloves of the Fang (scaled) - 7agi, 7stam.
- Heirloom/Dungeon/Scouting Gloves - 5agi, 7 stam, ~6-7 secondaries
Belt - Minor differences here. Mostly secondary choices.
- Satchel Belt - 5agi, 8 stam, secondaries. Still drops at ilvl 25?
- Heirloom/Dungeon - 5 agi, 7 stam, secnodaries.
- Gnomish Harm Prevention Belt - 13 Stam and on-use. FC set.
- Ruffian Belt - 9 agi. Full glass cannon set.
Legs - With the new scaling, MoP leg armor on BoEs are back.
- Heirloom/Dungeon/Scouting - 6agi, 9stam, secondaries.
- Dark Leather Pants/Bluegill - 12 agi. Pure agi set.
- Blackened Defias Legs (scaled) - 8agi, 9stam. Set bonus probably isn't worth looking at unless you have GFd pieces.
- Prospector's Woolies (do they scale?) - 9agi, 9stam. May actually be BiS.
Boots - Minor Speed is still king. Maybe stam for FC stacks set or agi for bursting down a stunned target.
- BG crate - 5agi, 8stam, secondaries
- Dungeon - 5agi, 7stam, secondaries
- Feet of the Lynx - 7agi, 7stam
- Dark Leather Boots - 8 agi. Pure agi set.
Rings - We want agi rings instead of new secondary-only rings. Any +1 verse enchant.
- BG crate - 4 agi, 6 stam, secondaries
- Shipyard heirloom - 4agi, 6stam, 5 crit
- WSG ring - 4 agi, 6 stam
- Signet of Argas (scaled) - 3agi, 4stam
- Jalins Recompense (alliance) - 4agi, 6 stam
- D1000 ring (horde) - 4agi, 6stam, 3 crit
Trinkets - Lots to play around with here due to engineering. Heirlooms with stats, heirlooms with good on-use, or engineering with good abilities.
- Defending/Returning Champion - 7stam, 5 verse
- Touch of the Void - 6 verse
- Insignia Heirloom - 7 stam, shorter CD trinket
- Gnomish Net-o-matic Projector - throws a net. No stats, but could provide some much needed CC to get more time on target.
Mainhand (Sword/Mace/Axe/Fist) - With speed normalization, highest ilvl is going to have best weapon damage. Elemental force is the enchant of choice.
- BG crate axe - 3agi, 5 stam, secondaries. Highest weapon damage.
- Most heirloom/dungeon - 3agi, 5 stam, secondaries.
- Shadowfang (not scaled or scaled to 19) - 6 agi, proc. The proc is meh and it no longer has better weapon damage. That agi though.
- Bronze Shortsword - 6 agi. Poor man’s shadowfang.
Mainhand (Daggers) - Weapon damage is important. Ele force is the enchant of choice probably. Haven’t looked at weapon damage/straight agi for openers.
- BG crate dagger - 3agi, 5 stam, secondaries. Highest weapon damage dagger.
- Most Heirloom/dungeon - 3agi, 5 stam, secondaries.
- Assassin’s Blade/Talon of Vultros (scaled) - 5agi, 2 crit. Best dagger stats.
- WSG dagger - 5 agi, 2 stam. Good generic option, easy to get.
Offhand - We mostly care about stats here. AFAIK offhand speed (aka sword vs dagger) doesn’t matter. Elemental force.
- Shadowfang (not scaled or scaled to 19) - 6 agi, proc.
- Bronze Shortsword - 6 agi. Poor man’s shadowfang.
- Assassin’s Blade/Talon of Vultros (scaled) - 5agi, 2 crit. Best dagger stats.
- WSG dagger - 5 agi, 2 stam. Good dagger agi, easy to get.
While GF’d gear isn’t part of the quick guide, it looks like theres a ton of GFd options. Warforged invasion gear is mostly still good. Warforged invasion weapons will have the best weapon damage and be really good mainhand. They give haste/mastery though, which is rather meh - so maybe a high agi sword/dagger offhand over them. Old things like AGM, signet of argus, trailblazer boots, etc are all solid. Does the old school insignia work on a separate CD than the inherited version?
Theres been some rumors about playing an "unholy" build. Reducing opponent damage by procs. Might be pretty gimmicky for duels, but could also be useful for peeling. GF’d Cursed Felblade. Unholy enchant. Howling Blade. Are there any others? Probably more fun than good.
Stat priority. For secondaries, verse > crit > haste. Agility is better than the secondaries, but I'm not sure by how much. My *very* quick testing shows a full 5 pt dispatch as 405 damage in my setup. with no neck. Equipping an heirloom neck with 4 agi gets to 415. Equipping a neck with no agi and 5 verse gets to 410. So 4 agi was +10 and 5 verse was +5. So 4agi = 10 verse, so I'd say a very rough starting point is 1 agi is worth 2.5 verse as far as dealing damage.
Thoughts on specs? Gear I missed? Questions about GFd gear? Go.
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