EU+US Best Ret Race?

I only play random bgs and some times plebmades and a consumable whore. My favorite is arcane bombs.

With that being said, ret just ends up being the better class with consumables factored in. Holy pally bombs me, he can’t seal the deal and finish me off in the silence time. I Arcane bomb a holy pally, 99% of the time, assuming he doesn’t have bubble, he’s dead.

Ret has heals when they are needed most, but can dish out the damage when needed.

I can use bubble as a way to kill shit without needing to heal myself. They use bubble just to survive

The list goes on and on why I play ret over holy for randoms

okey, have you tried to play holy with elemental force? if the enemy don't have trinket and let themselves go down to 50-60% it's pretty much always an kill with hoj. if they survive the hoj, portable bronze mortals seal the kill, gets you time for another crusader strike and HS. yes rets have heals, but goes oom insta. that shit you put on the floor porccs EF.

if we count in frag belt ( that don't share CD with PBM) it's even more overwhelming. I have killed a lot of balance that gets to greedy for the kill. Ret does shit dmg, can't heal much in longer fights.

I have tried ret, but don't feel they do enough dmg for not being able to heal much. the sad part holy count as heal.

Holy got low dmg, but good burst opportunity.

Arcane bomb got quite the cast time? most time ur not super low when ppl toss it, u got time for a HS and Bestow Faith, so then the enemy gotta kill u in that silence window. don't happen often.. ppl may use them less on EU tho, idk
 
okey, have you tried to play holy with elemental force? if the enemy don't have trinket and let themselves go down to 50-60% it's pretty much always an kill with hoj. if they survive the hoj, portable bronze mortals seal the kill, gets you time for another crusader strike and HS. yes rets have heals, but goes oom insta. that shit you put on the floor porccs EF.

if we count in frag belt ( that don't share CD with PBM) it's even more overwhelming. I have killed a lot of balance that gets to greedy for the kill. Ret does shit dmg, can't heal much in longer fights.

I have tried ret, but don't feel they do enough dmg for not being able to heal much. the sad part holy count as heal.

Holy got low dmg, but good burst opportunity.

Arcane bomb got quite the cast time? most time ur not super low when ppl toss it, u got time for a HS and Bestow Faith, so then the enemy gotta kill u in that silence window. don't happen often.. ppl may use them less on EU tho, idk

You must have never ran into a good ret or rich enough one at least. With zerking and saltwater I’m critting 900 tempt verdicts. And if I speced into talent to increase damage of next one, easily over 1K.

As far as the arcane bombs, I’ll follow it up just after a stun, and then throw a frag if needed but rarely is. I like to save frag for rogues followed up by 2 flash heals, post getting out of cheapshot, and arcane bombs and stuns on heals.

It can get nasty with a pocket healer burn if I play my cards right and use invulnerable bubble with zerking and or saltwater, shit dies quick and I can’t get touched for a little bit.

You really gotta delve deep when exploring ret options and play styles with consumables factored. Rest assured it’s fun AF
 
why are u arguing over specs when factoring in consumables, every spec is viable if youre paying 6-7k to kill someone

embarassing.

Hey man, no one said twinking in low level bgs is cheap. Just look at 19s in vanilla. Gold was hard to get but yet you had to keep combobulators, bandages, sharpening stones, pots, bombs, and no one shamed anyone for using them. Fony basically made using stun bomb —> bandage a thing. That’s 2 consumables right there. And again, no ones harmed him for it.

Now all of a sudden we are in 2019 and outlook on twinking has totally changed?

Na, twinking has remained for more than a decade for me, spending the most gold and time on your gear AND consumables, to have the best edge in the form of pvp you enjoy.
 
Hey man, no one said twinking in low level bgs is cheap. Just look at 19s in vanilla. Gold was hard to get but yet you had to keep combobulators, bandages, sharpening stones, pots, bombs, and no one shamed anyone for using them. Fony basically made using stun bomb —> bandage a thing. That’s 2 consumables right there. And again, no ones harmed him for it.

Now all of a sudden we are in 2019 and outlook on twinking has totally changed?

Na, twinking has remained for more than a decade for me, spending the most gold and time on your gear AND consumables, to have the best edge in the form of pvp you enjoy.

if you think gold was hard to get in vanilla its evident you never played it

its true there was less shaming but with games with no flag stacks or time limits, consumables had less impact than in todays 'environment'

also the dynamic of twinking has clearly changed over the years

in tbc we got introduced to arena and it quickly became more popular than queueing bgs, from my experience anyway. consumables couldnt be used in there with the exception of sharpening stones weapon swap pre 2.1 (i think, might have gone on longer) and bandages (not typically seen as a consumable) which led to the people who queued arena 95% of time to stop carrying consumables for the 5% of bg play, mainly only using them inside premades when it was still acceptable

around this time blizz did reworks to bgs to set time limits and other stipulations to stop bgs going on for hours and hours because being in at the start of one often led to you not finishing it due to lack of playtime available during your day, meaning in the premade scene consumables were making the meta unfun to play in

this led to stricter rules imposed by guild leaders on what consumables are ok to use in premades, usually passives like rum and elixirs.

nobody wanted to play in an environment whereby if you didnt have 2 stacks of swiftness pots or bombs or those fking felwood seeds that gave you 2500hp for 10secs meant your team was at a severe disadvantage

leading into xp lock days consumables were looked down upon more and more, twinking was being looked at as less of a passtime to kill tom the 13 yr old mage sitting at 300hp and more of a sub-section of wow where a different competitive scene was being formed, ditching the traditional endgame grind and high-skill ceiling cap in favor of less effort for a lower-skill ceiling but with the same competitive mindset

with the removal of levellers post 3.1 (or was it 3.2) the community lost a lot of its own playerbase because a majority of them didnt want to put effort into migrating on the off-chance that queues were consistent, so the community became tighter and etiquette within it became more important, leading to consumables being more and more looked down on

again, arena became more important due to longer bg queues, leading to less and less consumable reliance.

cata came along and from my own personal experience in the very early cata days xp-off queues were straight up bugged (at least for EU) which forced us to organise wargames in the 20-29 bracket (before f2p and 24s existed) and as you know consumables are unusable in wargames

with the insurgence of f2p and 24s becoming hugely popular since its inception in mid/late cata the use of consumables led to huge flames and all sorts of toxicity due to f2ps having very restricted access to them and gear in general

the nature of all guild v guild premades using wargame feature meant consumable use was seen as anti-competitive, a crutch only seen in pugs

the only consumables i remember being used during cata that wasnt 'shamed' was rum and the usual bandages

twinking became more and more niche all the way up to wod, with most of these bfa twinks coming back thinking nobody twinked since wotlk, the people who look down on consumables are the ones who experienced the 'meta' changes and the general attitude of the community switch over the years

final note - its 2019 not 2007 anymore, if you find enjoyment in killing levellers and spending 15k per bg you're just an awful player and nobody wants to hear your opinions on any topic to do with twinks because you're sub ~50 iq and you have nothing to say anyway.
 
If you spend more than 500g on consumables in a single BG you need to reevaluate your life. Only read through half of your post, but we have had vastly different experiences while playing apparently. I've never seen or heard of consumables (outside of faps/swift pots and MAYBE arcane bombs) being looked down on. Tinks have always been abt minmaxing maybe ur just a casual @lild

Side note i know bleeding hollow economy is fucked and all, but costs me MAYBE 100g per BG and that's only if I'm using frieds.
 
if you think gold was hard to get in vanilla its evident you never played it

its true there was less shaming but with games with no flag stacks or time limits, consumables had less impact than in todays 'environment'

also the dynamic of twinking has clearly changed over the years

in tbc we got introduced to arena and it quickly became more popular than queueing bgs, from my experience anyway. consumables couldnt be used in there with the exception of sharpening stones weapon swap pre 2.1 (i think, might have gone on longer) and bandages (not typically seen as a consumable) which led to the people who queued arena 95% of time to stop carrying consumables for the 5% of bg play, mainly only using them inside premades when it was still acceptable

around this time blizz did reworks to bgs to set time limits and other stipulations to stop bgs going on for hours and hours because being in at the start of one often led to you not finishing it due to lack of playtime available during your day, meaning in the premade scene consumables were making the meta unfun to play in

this led to stricter rules imposed by guild leaders on what consumables are ok to use in premades, usually passives like rum and elixirs.

nobody wanted to play in an environment whereby if you didnt have 2 stacks of swiftness pots or bombs or those fking felwood seeds that gave you 2500hp for 10secs meant your team was at a severe disadvantage

leading into xp lock days consumables were looked down upon more and more, twinking was being looked at as less of a passtime to kill tom the 13 yr old mage sitting at 300hp and more of a sub-section of wow where a different competitive scene was being formed, ditching the traditional endgame grind and high-skill ceiling cap in favor of less effort for a lower-skill ceiling but with the same competitive mindset

with the removal of levellers post 3.1 (or was it 3.2) the community lost a lot of its own playerbase because a majority of them didnt want to put effort into migrating on the off-chance that queues were consistent, so the community became tighter and etiquette within it became more important, leading to consumables being more and more looked down on

again, arena became more important due to longer bg queues, leading to less and less consumable reliance.

cata came along and from my own personal experience in the very early cata days xp-off queues were straight up bugged (at least for EU) which forced us to organise wargames in the 20-29 bracket (before f2p and 24s existed) and as you know consumables are unusable in wargames

with the insurgence of f2p and 24s becoming hugely popular since its inception in mid/late cata the use of consumables led to huge flames and all sorts of toxicity due to f2ps having very restricted access to them and gear in general

the nature of all guild v guild premades using wargame feature meant consumable use was seen as anti-competitive, a crutch only seen in pugs

the only consumables i remember being used during cata that wasnt 'shamed' was rum and the usual bandages

twinking became more and more niche all the way up to wod, with most of these bfa twinks coming back thinking nobody twinked since wotlk, the people who look down on consumables are the ones who experienced the 'meta' changes and the general attitude of the community switch over the years

final note - its 2019 not 2007 anymore, if you find enjoyment in killing levellers and spending 15k per bg you're just an awful player and nobody wants to hear your opinions on any topic to do with twinks because you're sub ~50 iq and you have nothing to say anyway.

When did I say I enjoy killing levelers? Can you not put words in my mouth please? I said I use them mostly to combat the Kick that rogues have, the OP heals of boomkins. I don’t play a meta class, so it’s almost needed to compete against certain classes.

If anyone thinks it’s fair that druids get travel form as well as being one of the versatile healer and dps, and other classes don’t have the right to use consumables to combat that, clearly plays a druid and feels entitled
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If you spend more than 500g on consumables in a single BG you need to reevaluate your life. Only read through half of your post, but we have had vastly different experiences while playing apparently. I've never seen or heard of consumables (outside of faps/swift pots and MAYBE arcane bombs) being looked down on. Tinks have always been abt minmaxing maybe ur just a casual @lild

Side note i know bleeding hollow economy is fucked and all, but costs me MAYBE 100g per BG and that's only if I'm using frieds.

THANK YOU! I knew I wasn’t crazy, other than spending like 1K per game in bgs of them. But that could be chalked up to what you said that twinking is about min maxing, not that I’m crazy
 
If you spend more than 500g on consumables in a single BG you need to reevaluate your life. Only read through half of your post, but we have had vastly different experiences while playing apparently. I've never seen or heard of consumables (outside of faps/swift pots and MAYBE arcane bombs) being looked down on. Tinks have always been abt minmaxing maybe ur just a casual @lild

Side note i know bleeding hollow economy is fucked and all, but costs me MAYBE 100g per BG and that's only if I'm using frieds.


EU gods vs NA crutch babies i guess, even today the use of consumables is 10x higher on NA


When did I say I enjoy killing levelers? Can you not put words in my mouth please? I said I use them mostly to combat the Kick that rogues have, the OP heals of boomkins. I don’t play a meta class, so it’s almost needed to compete against certain classes.

If anyone thinks it’s fair that druids get travel form as well as being one of the versatile healer and dps, and other classes don’t have the right to use consumables to combat that, clearly plays a druid and feels entitled

if you need consumables to overcome class differences thats even worse

if you're being destroyed by travel form thats just poor positioning on your part, if you're being kicked that's bad play on your part
 
Food buffs cost MAYBE 50s per, and that's probably high
10s per wildvine
Gliders are 4g a piece
Flask is free basically, call it 10g if I decide to run int pot/fort pot
Frieds are 20g ea average
Salt waters (not that I've ever actually used one) are free with your own marks.

So MAYBE I'll hit 100g a game. Even that is doubtful.
 
lild cool hitsory session.

@OP i Still favor holy, i don't feel like i do enough in ret specc, but every man for himself. It was really fun to play ret @19 with blade of justice, a tad op even.

I don't think Gift of naru is worth it on ret, still a heal tho everything may help.

I would go for Dwarfs and thier stoneform.
 
EU gods vs NA crutch babies i guess, even today the use of consumables is 10x higher on NA

Sounds like a convenient excuse for being poor/casual. Gives you an ez out when u get smacked by the superior NA playas
 
Gives you an ez out when u get smacked by the superior NA playas

superior NA players lmao

if everyone was to make a best of list for 19s of all time, NA would get a max of 2 players on it :/
 
superior NA players lmao

if everyone was to make a best of list for 19s of all time, NA would get a max of 2 players on it :/

Xlmaoe yes 19 is the true test of skill, I'm v concerned w that list.

Inb4 comments abt 39 bracket; dont bother it's just as irrelevant as 19s
 
Xlmaoe yes 19 is the true test of skill, I'm v concerned w that list.

Inb4 comments abt 39 bracket; dont bother it's just as irrelevant as 19s

this is the 19 section yes or no?

19 only bracket with actual tournaments yes or no?

most active bracket is 19 yes or no?
 
this is the 19 section yes or no?

19 only bracket with actual tournaments yes or no?

most active bracket is 19 yes or no?

1. Irrelevant, I'd make the same comment if this was posted in any other forum.

2. Nope

3. Also irrelevant. Just because a bunch of 15 year olds w no attention span play a bracket does not make it beste

Lmk if youd like to keep going
 
1. Irrelevant, I'd make the same comment if this was posted in any other forum.

2. Nope

3. Also irrelevant. Just because a bunch of 15 year olds w no attention span play a bracket does not make it beste

Lmk if youd like to keep going

1. this is the 19 section so why are you surprised when i relate my argument to the 19 bracket

2. 3v3 tournaments with gold prizes arent actual tournaments, sorry.

3. when your bracket gets 10 pops in 6 years is it any wonder when a consistent queue bracket has higher competition in it


stick to popping consumables in a bracket where someone as bad as thotfc is considered good
 
Sounds like a convenient excuse for being poor/casual. Gives you an ez out when u get smacked by the superior NA playas

I'ma just have leave this 1 note real quick.

What's more casual. Random BG's or organized wargames, be it guild vs guild or real id's where it's all twinks vs twinks, not to mention tournaments being played in wargame environments.

Which seems more casual. I'm curious.

Personally I don't give 2 shits about pugs these days, but you should not depend on consumables to do well.

If you're playing objective classes that's supposed to clash with EFC's or other objective players, and you're getting outplayed on positioning, you shouldn't chug a speed pot / use gliders and hide behind the excuse of other classes abilities.

If you're playing mid classes and chase after druids the entire time, and getting kited, then maybe re-evaluate your choices of play. You could be more useful doing other things.

And so on and so forth.

Are druids crazy good? Yes. Should you spam consumables "to be on their level"? No. Just stop picking bad fights and put your efforts where it matters.

At the end of the day, pugs will be pugs. You will lose some, you will win some, some will be good games, others bad. That's how pugs are.
 
EU gods vs NA crutch babies i guess, even today the use of consumables is 10x higher on NA




if you need consumables to overcome class differences thats even worse

if you're being destroyed by travel form thats just poor positioning on your part, if you're being kicked that's bad play on your part

How is say my pvp trink being on cooldown, and rogues able to stun to kick till I’m dead, me being bad? It literally happens to everyone who’s trinket is on cooldown with no backup heals.

Also it doesn’t matter how well you position yourself to kill a druid FCing, they will just insig the pally stun and run away into neverland.

Your a fucking joke kid if you don’t see an imbalance
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I'ma just have leave this 1 note real quick.

What's more casual. Random BG's or organized wargames, be it guild vs guild or real id's where it's all twinks vs twinks, not to mention tournaments being played in wargame environments.

Which seems more casual. I'm curious.

Personally I don't give 2 shits about pugs these days, but you should not depend on consumables to do well.

If you're playing objective classes that's supposed to clash with EFC's or other objective players, and you're getting outplayed on positioning, you shouldn't chug a speed pot / use gliders and hide behind the excuse of other classes abilities.

If you're playing mid classes and chase after druids the entire time, and getting kited, then maybe re-evaluate your choices of play. You could be more useful doing other things.

And so on and so forth.

Are druids crazy good? Yes. Should you spam consumables "to be on their level"? No. Just stop picking bad fights and put your efforts where it matters.

At the end of the day, pugs will be pugs. You will lose some, you will win some, some will be good games, others bad. That's how pugs are.

You tried to compare random BGs to wargames. Too bad if the war game teams are even enough, it wouldn’t be 5 druids, 3 rogues, and 2 healing shammys, like random bgs end up being.

It’s a way more controlled environment for wargames.

Random bgs, again, you could run into teams with super OP comps, all twinks, with multiple of OP classes.

You don’t think that if your team has 1 twink rogue, 1 twink hunter, and me, while on the other side they have 2 twink boomkins, 2 twink rogues, and a twinks hunter, wouldn’t call for some consumables? Lol
 
How is say my pvp trink being on cooldown, and rogues able to stun to kick till I’m dead, me being bad? It literally happens to everyone who’s trinket is on cooldown with no backup heals.

Also it doesn’t matter how well you position yourself to kill a druid FCing, they will just insig the pally stun and run away into neverland.

Your a fucking joke kid if you don’t see an imbalance

1. dont be in a position where a rogue can safely open on you solo while your pvp trinket is on cd, if unavoidable swap to a gearset where they wont put you low in an opener (stam/vers, sword and board), fake the kick then top yourself. how is this an issue?

2. if youre chasing a fc druid across mid as a ret on your own then you're the fucking joke 'kid'

sounds like you wanna be the terminator on a ret and cry and use consumables when the game doesnt let you go on solo missions killing everything you set your eyes on

learn your classes role in bgs then come back with arguments
 
1. dont be in a position where a rogue can safely open on you solo while your pvp trinket is on cd, if unavoidable swap to a gearset where they wont put you low in an opener (stam/vers, sword and board), fake the kick then top yourself. how is this an issue?

2. if youre chasing a fc druid across mid as a ret on your own then you're the fucking joke 'kid'

sounds like you wanna be the terminator on a ret and cry and use consumables when the game doesnt let you go on solo missions killing everything you set your eyes on

learn your classes role in bgs then come back with arguments

Sometimes no one else goes for FC in random bgs you fucking kike.
 

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