Best in Slot Player vs. Player
- Thread starter Nesyla
- Start date
Wymoro
Legend
Nice to see the changes being made so quickly. I fear I may have given you too much info in that post on mages, so I'll clear up some of it here.
You don't really need three links to Frost Mage armories on the first page. The difference in gemming is really subjective and that should be something mentioned for all specs so in reality it's only necessary to link one armory, gem it how you wish. Some mages will go full resilience, but most find that you need to gem offensively. I say this because all three armories have the same gear now, so you might as well just have one and mention that gemming is a process each person needs to decide for themselves. Also, gemming haste is still something that some mages do. Most arena types don't simply because with the setup I gave you, you can get to ~51% haste with the trinket + icy veins and that's enough to blow someone up very quickly.
This is the armory that probably reflects the best setup for the average Frost Mage. It has a decent amount of resilience and good spell power. Gemming further for intellect can work, but the more you gem for an offensive stat, the more talented you need to be, because when you do get hit, you're going down quick.
http://chardev.org/?profile=274138
If you want two armories up there, I'll give you the alternative armory that a few very talented mages use. This setup is extremely low in resilience but has absolutely insane amounts of spell power which allows for you to just annihilate enemies. That said, you had better know what you're doing with this setup or you'll die a swift death.
http://chardev.org/?profile=274229
.
The difference between the two is that one uses 4 piece / 4 piece, the other simply uses 2 piece / 4 piece. You may not want to even include this second armory, anyone who doesn't know how to Frost Mage like a god will probably be a corpse real quick.
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Rogue:
Here's a setup that some Sub rogues use when they don't wish to grab the 4 piece pve set. It's arguably better because the pve set bonus isn't that amazing, but then again, if you're backstabbing alot, who knows. I just have seen this one once in a while. You don't need to link it, I'm just posting it here for reference. BTW, It's one of those builds that requires the user to be insanely good, otherwise they'll die quick.
http://chardev.org/?profile=274239
The long and the short of that armory is this:
Some rogues choose Necklace of the Deep over the Guardian's Neck because it offers two slots. This allows for 50+ agility w/ 20 stamina. The same applies to the belt (Don Alejandro's), the Shadowmaster Boots and the ring (SoS rep, Band). The ring is especially nice because it has the equivalent agility as angelista's or the hard khorium band and it also has a 160 ap proc
That said, alot of rogues might keep the 4 piece T6, but they mostly use the Band of the Eternal Champion over the Sin'dorei Band. You lose a bit of resilience, but you gain alot of stamina, a small ap proc and agility instead of ap. The alternatives for those who aren't exalted w/ SoS are the Hard Khorium Band made by JC'ers and Angelista's Revenge from Anwehu/G'eras. Another piece that most rogues prefer is the Cloak of Unforgiveable Sin. It has alot of stamina, Agility instead of AP and haste. It also has a socket.
Lastly, most rogues and other agi users will take the 45 stam/15 agi leg enchants over the ap/crit ones. Granted, the AP/crit ones are much better offensively, but for some reason while they'll skip stamina in some places, they won't skip it there. I think it's to do w/ the amount of stamina found in the enchant.
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Holy Paladin:
I really have no idea because I don't play a Holy Paladin, but I do play w/ one in my arena teams @ 85. Here's a few things I noticed though:
1. Gloves - Since Holy Paladins are casting Flash of Light so often, I think the PVP set gloves bonus might be worth it, though I could be wrong. If its not, I think they rely heavily on crit as well, so that might make them want the Sunblessed Gauntlets instead even though you lose a bit of Int.
2. Legs - I think you'll find alot of benefit in using the Legplates of the Holy Juggenaut w/ their 3 slots.
3. Bracers - Not sure either way here, but if you want to keep the belt w/ 2 sockets instead of the pve set 1 socket, you'll may want to switch these to the pve variety. This is because the PVE 2 piece set bonus increased the spell power applied to Flash of Light by 5%, nothing to laugh at.
That said, I really don't know about any of that, but it seems logical, atleast when it comes to the PVE set bonus, and if I wanted to keep the PVP set alive I'd switch out my legs, not my gloves, you gain more sockets, and the glove bonus. That said, you do lose a tiny amount of some stats and gain a tiny amount of others by doing all that given that you keep gemming resilience, although gemming up to 40% resilience as a Holy Paladin means you're getting trained often.
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Hunter:
You may wish to switch the Superior Potency weapon enchant to Exceptional Agility. You lose 12 AP but gain .67% crit.
You also may wish to move one point in talents from Termination to Rapid Killing. Termination as a talent doesn't play in that much in PVP. It's nice, but the amount of time you spend casting steady shot on a target thats in the execute zone is small. The focus return is small as well. The Rapid Killing talent is amazing for focus return (it works w/ Rapid Recuperation) anytime that there is something you kill which return exp/honor. For example, killing the fiends/projections off a Shadow Priest may count if I remember correctly and would give you lots of focus. As would getting the killing blow on a dying pet, etc. It also gives you a boost to aimed shot if you find you have time to hard cast it right afterward.
--
DK Again:
Blood might need 2 armories, as many Blood DK's play it not as FC's, but because its easier to stay alive and kill someone as Blood than as Frost. Frost has more burst but Blood can stay alive longer and has really hard hitting attacks, even if they take awhile to get put out (10k+ Death Strikes vs. 8-9k Obliterates in similar gear)
Lastly, you may want to consider adding small "Notes" sections below each class as the predecessor did. It may help prospective twinks who are choosing classes which have builds based around specific mechanics. I.E. Mention the Frost Mage crit soft cap, haste levels, etc. Mention to bring an extra weapon as a 2H/DW DK.
You don't really need three links to Frost Mage armories on the first page. The difference in gemming is really subjective and that should be something mentioned for all specs so in reality it's only necessary to link one armory, gem it how you wish. Some mages will go full resilience, but most find that you need to gem offensively. I say this because all three armories have the same gear now, so you might as well just have one and mention that gemming is a process each person needs to decide for themselves. Also, gemming haste is still something that some mages do. Most arena types don't simply because with the setup I gave you, you can get to ~51% haste with the trinket + icy veins and that's enough to blow someone up very quickly.
This is the armory that probably reflects the best setup for the average Frost Mage. It has a decent amount of resilience and good spell power. Gemming further for intellect can work, but the more you gem for an offensive stat, the more talented you need to be, because when you do get hit, you're going down quick.
http://chardev.org/?profile=274138
If you want two armories up there, I'll give you the alternative armory that a few very talented mages use. This setup is extremely low in resilience but has absolutely insane amounts of spell power which allows for you to just annihilate enemies. That said, you had better know what you're doing with this setup or you'll die a swift death.
http://chardev.org/?profile=274229
.
The difference between the two is that one uses 4 piece / 4 piece, the other simply uses 2 piece / 4 piece. You may not want to even include this second armory, anyone who doesn't know how to Frost Mage like a god will probably be a corpse real quick.
-----
Rogue:
Here's a setup that some Sub rogues use when they don't wish to grab the 4 piece pve set. It's arguably better because the pve set bonus isn't that amazing, but then again, if you're backstabbing alot, who knows. I just have seen this one once in a while. You don't need to link it, I'm just posting it here for reference. BTW, It's one of those builds that requires the user to be insanely good, otherwise they'll die quick.
http://chardev.org/?profile=274239
The long and the short of that armory is this:
Some rogues choose Necklace of the Deep over the Guardian's Neck because it offers two slots. This allows for 50+ agility w/ 20 stamina. The same applies to the belt (Don Alejandro's), the Shadowmaster Boots and the ring (SoS rep, Band). The ring is especially nice because it has the equivalent agility as angelista's or the hard khorium band and it also has a 160 ap proc
That said, alot of rogues might keep the 4 piece T6, but they mostly use the Band of the Eternal Champion over the Sin'dorei Band. You lose a bit of resilience, but you gain alot of stamina, a small ap proc and agility instead of ap. The alternatives for those who aren't exalted w/ SoS are the Hard Khorium Band made by JC'ers and Angelista's Revenge from Anwehu/G'eras. Another piece that most rogues prefer is the Cloak of Unforgiveable Sin. It has alot of stamina, Agility instead of AP and haste. It also has a socket.
Lastly, most rogues and other agi users will take the 45 stam/15 agi leg enchants over the ap/crit ones. Granted, the AP/crit ones are much better offensively, but for some reason while they'll skip stamina in some places, they won't skip it there. I think it's to do w/ the amount of stamina found in the enchant.
---
Holy Paladin:
I really have no idea because I don't play a Holy Paladin, but I do play w/ one in my arena teams @ 85. Here's a few things I noticed though:
1. Gloves - Since Holy Paladins are casting Flash of Light so often, I think the PVP set gloves bonus might be worth it, though I could be wrong. If its not, I think they rely heavily on crit as well, so that might make them want the Sunblessed Gauntlets instead even though you lose a bit of Int.
2. Legs - I think you'll find alot of benefit in using the Legplates of the Holy Juggenaut w/ their 3 slots.
3. Bracers - Not sure either way here, but if you want to keep the belt w/ 2 sockets instead of the pve set 1 socket, you'll may want to switch these to the pve variety. This is because the PVE 2 piece set bonus increased the spell power applied to Flash of Light by 5%, nothing to laugh at.
That said, I really don't know about any of that, but it seems logical, atleast when it comes to the PVE set bonus, and if I wanted to keep the PVP set alive I'd switch out my legs, not my gloves, you gain more sockets, and the glove bonus. That said, you do lose a tiny amount of some stats and gain a tiny amount of others by doing all that given that you keep gemming resilience, although gemming up to 40% resilience as a Holy Paladin means you're getting trained often.
---
Hunter:
You may wish to switch the Superior Potency weapon enchant to Exceptional Agility. You lose 12 AP but gain .67% crit.
You also may wish to move one point in talents from Termination to Rapid Killing. Termination as a talent doesn't play in that much in PVP. It's nice, but the amount of time you spend casting steady shot on a target thats in the execute zone is small. The focus return is small as well. The Rapid Killing talent is amazing for focus return (it works w/ Rapid Recuperation) anytime that there is something you kill which return exp/honor. For example, killing the fiends/projections off a Shadow Priest may count if I remember correctly and would give you lots of focus. As would getting the killing blow on a dying pet, etc. It also gives you a boost to aimed shot if you find you have time to hard cast it right afterward.
--
DK Again:
Blood might need 2 armories, as many Blood DK's play it not as FC's, but because its easier to stay alive and kill someone as Blood than as Frost. Frost has more burst but Blood can stay alive longer and has really hard hitting attacks, even if they take awhile to get put out (10k+ Death Strikes vs. 8-9k Obliterates in similar gear)
Lastly, you may want to consider adding small "Notes" sections below each class as the predecessor did. It may help prospective twinks who are choosing classes which have builds based around specific mechanics. I.E. Mention the Frost Mage crit soft cap, haste levels, etc. Mention to bring an extra weapon as a 2H/DW DK.
Auties
Legend
I think http://chardev.org/?profile=269631 could also serve as an alternative rogues gear. Rogues get 2 shot with or without pvp gear.
Fizzfizz
Legend
Just wanted to add that Coif of Alleria is a better helm than Brutal Glad for hunters. if you put a resil gem in it, you are only losing 19 stam and 17 hit but gaining 52 armor, 26 agility, 11 crit, and 14 haste. Band of the Eternal Champion is better than the Sin'dorei ring, also.
Wymoro
Legend
When it comes to the Coif vs Brutal Glad helm, you can't exactly count the resilience from the socket considering how the other helm has a socket as well. In other words, you're losing 19 stam, 17 hit and 20 resilience. If you gem for resielience you get that back, but you'll still be losing the extra resilience from what you could have socketed in the Brutal Glad Helm. You can only count the stats from sockets to compare items if one item doesn't have the sockets the other does.
That said, Coif is better offensively, Brutal Glad is better defensively.
Offensive Hunter Gearing:
http://chardev.org/?profile=274306
If a hunter or any other agi user can spare the resilience, they are better off w/ Band of the Eternal Champion and/or Hard Khorium Band. It's a bit better than using the Sin'dorei alternative. You can use them both as well, but the Guardian's Band does give alot of crit. It's probably personal preference when it comes to being defensive/offensive.
If you do gear offensively, you can expect to be one shot or close to it. You could gem for resilience to make up for some of the loss. However, you will be destroying people as well. In that setup, the hunter has 1.1k agility, 3.4k attack power and 49% crit self buffed.
Absolutely no one can deny that an offensive setup works. If you don't believe me, check out Eso @ Thrall. He's a very well known Hunter twink on the Rampage Battlegroup. He routinely runs random BG's with almost no PVP gear and dominates people. That said, you have to be extremely skillled in order to make that setup work because you will typically get 2-shot. In other words you have to react instantly.
That said, Coif is better offensively, Brutal Glad is better defensively.
Offensive Hunter Gearing:
http://chardev.org/?profile=274306
If a hunter or any other agi user can spare the resilience, they are better off w/ Band of the Eternal Champion and/or Hard Khorium Band. It's a bit better than using the Sin'dorei alternative. You can use them both as well, but the Guardian's Band does give alot of crit. It's probably personal preference when it comes to being defensive/offensive.
If you do gear offensively, you can expect to be one shot or close to it. You could gem for resilience to make up for some of the loss. However, you will be destroying people as well. In that setup, the hunter has 1.1k agility, 3.4k attack power and 49% crit self buffed.
Absolutely no one can deny that an offensive setup works. If you don't believe me, check out Eso @ Thrall. He's a very well known Hunter twink on the Rampage Battlegroup. He routinely runs random BG's with almost no PVP gear and dominates people. That said, you have to be extremely skillled in order to make that setup work because you will typically get 2-shot. In other words you have to react instantly.
tupac
Legend
eso is a qt but as all hunters useless 1v1 unless against a warrior maby bad lock he can destroy bgs as can any hunter with pocket heals
Esotra
Legend
Yeah, kill momentum drops like a brick if i open on somebody and don't kill them, I usually queue with a small pre-made group, makes Battlegrounds 10 times as enjoyable. Queuing solo i just bounce around and pop hot-shots at people, usually advancing in the opposite direction right after before they can hit me back.
Esotra
Legend
Satina kinda couldn't stress this enough, but as he isn't here; Gems aren't set in stone, everybody needs to find a balance of Int/str/agi and resilience that suits them, and their current situation.
Narox
Legend
ill give you answers to any of your points
1. the glove bonus isnt worth it, cause people dont die because youre not healing enough. They die because youre not getting heals quickly enough off. That said, im equiping the pve gloves because of haste.
2. Why should it benefit more? if you use the 3 socket pve legs, you loose the 2 piece set bonus, which gives 35 resilience + 35 resilience (leg stats) = 70 resilence. With the pve legs, you only get 60 resilience, and you should get as much resilience as possible as holy paladin. Furthermore you would loose 9 crit rating, which is one of the most important stats after haste and resilience.
3. Same as point 1, you dont need the 5% bonus. if you use the t6 bracers, you would loose 8 crit rating, 15 resilence and 10 stamina, which isnt worth it in exchange for the 5% benefit.
You would like to have 51 spellpower more than 600 mana, and a little bit of crit rating? Makes no sense, cause as healer you definitly need the mana, and furthermore 30 int scales with buffs, spellpower doesnt. On lvl 70 you have so much overheal which makes spellpower to one of the worse stats for healers. The only reason you may want to enchant 81 spellpower is for bursting with your mate. But the 51 spellpower wont be noticeable.
PS: Im saying it once more, Gnomish Lightning Generator is BiS for Holy, Memento of Tyrande is crap, cause you dont need int, or spirit. Crit and Haste are much better cause if you dont crit, you wont get any proccs, without proccs, you have to cast, which gives you time problems (if someone gets dmg as hell) and possibly in line counters.
OP
OP
Nesyla
Legend
As i said earlier i will not include any engineering tinker in the gear sets as people might not pick engineering.
Narox
Legend
yea, but there is no other trinket which can compare to this one. Never mind.
Here's a Chardev of Resto Druid: http://chardev.org/?profile=274392
Gear is a mix of resto t6, moonkin t6 and pvp, in order to get the t6 2 set piece bonus from resto t6 and as much haste as possible. I gemed with resilience for more survivability. In case you dont want to add the gloves because you only get them with leatherworking, you can also use tranquil moonlight wraps
Here's a Chardev of Resto Druid: http://chardev.org/?profile=274392
Gear is a mix of resto t6, moonkin t6 and pvp, in order to get the t6 2 set piece bonus from resto t6 and as much haste as possible. I gemed with resilience for more survivability. In case you dont want to add the gloves because you only get them with leatherworking, you can also use tranquil moonlight wraps
OP
OP
Nesyla
Legend
Updated !
Wymoro
Legend
@ Eso: I get your point w/ regard to pre-mades. I simply wanted to make the point that gemming/gearing offensively works for some people and there are alternatives for each spec that can be quite nice if used properly. I also wanted to show that the more you know your class, the more offensive you can be with your gear in most cases.
@Narox: Yeah, like I said I really wasn't sure, just saw quite a few Pallies going that way, I guess they're wrong. Thanks.
Also, if you really really don't want to include GLG, I guess that's your choice, I will say this however:
Any serious twink is going to have Engineering as a profession quickly. Not only does it bring Tazik/Synapse springs, but it brings a great trinket for almost every class in the form of Sonic Booster, Noise Machine + GLG. Not having Engineering on a twink is basically like limiting yourself on purpose. I'm not saying its impossible to twink without engineering, but it certainly levels the playing field between you and those that do have it. Tazik & Synapse are just too strong to give up for any other profession.
Anyway, outside of GLG, the BiS list for a Holy Paladin (they don't have mana problems and Memento is only great because of the spirit proc in combination w/ the INT) trinket is probably one of the following:
Narox should probably comment on which is best for a Holy Paladin.
The Oracle trinket would take some bad ass rep grinding to get. You'll be grinding for rep in a 74-76 zone ><. I'm guessing that the Oracle Talisman is BiS out of those, if you can't get that maybe the Silver, but I really dont know, I just know its more average haste.
Mage:
I really don't think that Arcane mages need the 4 piece PVE bonus. It's bonus to Arcane Missles only for them. While they do cast it occasionally, its not their main nuke. Their main nuke is Arcane Blast (Hit for about a 13-14k crit w/ stock Brutal gear + Cooldowns going vs Dummies). I think the Leggings of Calamity would give more benefit. Arcane might also gem for haste a bit due to the fact that they really need to get AB's out quickly, but TBH, I dont play Arcane much at all in BG's or Arena.
@Narox: Yeah, like I said I really wasn't sure, just saw quite a few Pallies going that way, I guess they're wrong. Thanks.
Also, if you really really don't want to include GLG, I guess that's your choice, I will say this however:
Any serious twink is going to have Engineering as a profession quickly. Not only does it bring Tazik/Synapse springs, but it brings a great trinket for almost every class in the form of Sonic Booster, Noise Machine + GLG. Not having Engineering on a twink is basically like limiting yourself on purpose. I'm not saying its impossible to twink without engineering, but it certainly levels the playing field between you and those that do have it. Tazik & Synapse are just too strong to give up for any other profession.
Anyway, outside of GLG, the BiS list for a Holy Paladin (they don't have mana problems and Memento is only great because of the spirit proc in combination w/ the INT) trinket is probably one of the following:
Narox should probably comment on which is best for a Holy Paladin.
- Oracle Talisman of Abultion (71 crit, proc that restores mana/rage/energy/etc on killing blow)
- The Skull of Gul'dan (47 Intellect, 25 hit rating, 175 haste on use)
- Shifting Naaru Silver (54 Haste, 320 Spell Power on use)
The Oracle trinket would take some bad ass rep grinding to get. You'll be grinding for rep in a 74-76 zone ><. I'm guessing that the Oracle Talisman is BiS out of those, if you can't get that maybe the Silver, but I really dont know, I just know its more average haste.
Mage:
I really don't think that Arcane mages need the 4 piece PVE bonus. It's bonus to Arcane Missles only for them. While they do cast it occasionally, its not their main nuke. Their main nuke is Arcane Blast (Hit for about a 13-14k crit w/ stock Brutal gear + Cooldowns going vs Dummies). I think the Leggings of Calamity would give more benefit. Arcane might also gem for haste a bit due to the fact that they really need to get AB's out quickly, but TBH, I dont play Arcane much at all in BG's or Arena.
Wymoro
Legend
Some notes on Ele Shaman, some things I'm sure on, others I'm not:
1. Replace the meta gem w/ the Chaotic version for sure.
2. Might want to consider using the PVE set boots + belt. They give alot of haste, and an extra socket. They also give a bonus to Int, Spirit + Crit when all totems are down.
(Not sure on this because you lose a bit of stamina and resilience, I think its worth it though.) Check w/ a Shaman to make sure.
3. Might consider Chains of the Tumultuous Storm instead of the PVP legs. You only lose ~14 stamina and 28 spirit. You gain 27 resilience or lose 33 resilience and gain 60 of whatever stat you gem for.
(Not sure, check)
4. You most likely want to use the Hammer of Sanctification instead of the PVP mace. Because it has a gem socket, you lose no resilience if you gem that way. Also, you gain 34 spell power, and 22 haste. The stamina and hit rating lost are negligible. This is because its a very small amount of stamina (6) and you're already far over the PVP hit cap.
All the changes suggested lead to a loss of ~700 health, 6 spirit and negligible hit rating, a gain of 500 mana, 30 intellect, 70 spell power, 7% haste and 15 resilience. You also get 45 Intellect, 38 Spirit + 35 Crit rating when all totems are down.
Here's the link w/ it gemmed resil incase you want to check out the differences:
http://chardev.org/?profile=274448
Note: The gem in the mace might be spell pen but that's just moved from where it was in your setup (belt) so you're still gaining the resilience or whatever from the socket.
The biggest reason I think most of that is worth it is for the extra haste. You almost double your haste w/ that setup.
1. Replace the meta gem w/ the Chaotic version for sure.
2. Might want to consider using the PVE set boots + belt. They give alot of haste, and an extra socket. They also give a bonus to Int, Spirit + Crit when all totems are down.
(Not sure on this because you lose a bit of stamina and resilience, I think its worth it though.) Check w/ a Shaman to make sure.
3. Might consider Chains of the Tumultuous Storm instead of the PVP legs. You only lose ~14 stamina and 28 spirit. You gain 27 resilience or lose 33 resilience and gain 60 of whatever stat you gem for.
(Not sure, check)
4. You most likely want to use the Hammer of Sanctification instead of the PVP mace. Because it has a gem socket, you lose no resilience if you gem that way. Also, you gain 34 spell power, and 22 haste. The stamina and hit rating lost are negligible. This is because its a very small amount of stamina (6) and you're already far over the PVP hit cap.
All the changes suggested lead to a loss of ~700 health, 6 spirit and negligible hit rating, a gain of 500 mana, 30 intellect, 70 spell power, 7% haste and 15 resilience. You also get 45 Intellect, 38 Spirit + 35 Crit rating when all totems are down.
Here's the link w/ it gemmed resil incase you want to check out the differences:
http://chardev.org/?profile=274448
Note: The gem in the mace might be spell pen but that's just moved from where it was in your setup (belt) so you're still gaining the resilience or whatever from the socket.
The biggest reason I think most of that is worth it is for the extra haste. You almost double your haste w/ that setup.
Narox
Legend
either oracle talisman of abultion or battlemaster trinket with crit or haste, which suits better to the players playstyle
something i have to note. You have mana problems as paladin
hexlol
Legend
bis resto shaman, rest is dog
http://eu.battle.net...l%C3%B3l/simple
i think my priest is bis aswell http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/frostwhisper/Shiv%C3%A1lolx/simple
http://eu.battle.net...l%C3%B3l/simple
i think my priest is bis aswell http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/frostwhisper/Shiv%C3%A1lolx/simple