Best FC class?

Discussion in '20s (Shadowlands)' started by glancealot, Apr 4, 2021.

Share This Page

  1. glancealot

    glancealot Member

    Messages:
    2,478
    Likes Received:
    180
    Trophy Points:
    63
    What is the best FC class for a twink vs. twink game at 20?

    I have only played hpal a lot in this bracket, so i will write down what I know about hpal, not saying that i know anything about organized pvp, just presenting the facts.

    hpal can use shield (including https://www.wowhead.com/item=9404/olafs-all-purpose-shield ), wear plate (including https://www.wowhead.com/spell=9979/ornate-mithril-boots#comments), can spec into https://www.wowhead.com/spell=216868/hallowed-ground to remove snare for self and teammates, has big instant heals (double instant heals with smart use of https://www.wowhead.com/spell=53563/beacon-of-light)

    i haven't played druid in a while, but when i did over 5 years ago, i could shift out of bear form, without shifting out of bear form with /cast !Bear Form, i can no longer do that which makes me think that druid is not really a good FC class at 20 in serious games now.

    i don't know much about other FC classes such as DH, maybe people can chip in with ideas and comments.
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
    • Creative Creative x 1
  2. Blastboy

    Blastboy Member

    Messages:
    35
    Likes Received:
    11
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Druid always has and always will be the best fc
     
  3. ohti

    ohti 10 Moderator <TF>

    Messages:
    4,263
    Likes Received:
    3,722
    Trophy Points:
    173
    Rd > veng > all
     
  4. OP
    glancealot

    glancealot Member

    Messages:
    2,478
    Likes Received:
    180
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Some facts or reasoning would be appreciated to back up those seemingly uncontested / authoritative opinions.

    Why do you guys think that hpal doesn't work or DH/druid works, for example.
     
  5. BANKONE

    BANKONE Member

    Messages:
    243
    Likes Received:
    137
    Trophy Points:
    43
    This is a glance ego stroke 2h speed / green whelp armor paladin thread in disguise.

    Just own it man! you should grab flag over that talasite stack DH.

    druids are weak rn, yes. But to discount them entirely is unwise.
     
    • Like Like x 5
  6. Chops

    Chops Soccer Dad Moderator

    Messages:
    7,123
    Likes Received:
    6,335
    Trophy Points:
    163
    I dunno man, but if I had a talasite stacked resto druid and a meme build hpal at my disposal, I might try FCing on both toons and see which one performed better?
     
    • Like Like x 4
  7. toskosa

    toskosa Member

    Messages:
    509
    Likes Received:
    384
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Poor resto druids, they have the worse selection of pvp talents in the bracket, 2 entire choices at 20 lol. I am really looking forward to 9.1 and seeing if resto druids get any pvp talent love.
     
  8. Kakakaka

    Kakakaka Member

    Messages:
    73
    Likes Received:
    147
    Trophy Points:
    33
    (This is purely a WSG standpoint)

    A lot of players currently like DH as the no. 1 FC at 20. This is for the obvious reasons of its HP pool, mobility post 6 stacks, and Illidan's Grasp (eyes are actually not huge in a non-rogue meta, but obviously useful). I think that DH is rather self-explanatory and needs no introduction to anyone who understands vengeance.

    However, despite the pro's that are mentioned, I'm still one of the few who truly believe that Rdruid is the superior FC. I'll explain my controversial opinion. Rdruid is factually (ask any DH FC in this bracket) better at picking and crossing with the flag due to stealth+dash+shifts, which translates to being practically better than vengeance for 0-5 stacks at the very least. This leads me to 6-15 stacks, where the FC and their kit becomes limited.

    To start, I need to touch on a few misconceptions about vengeance DH. Despite their 10k HP pool, their effective HP is significantly lower as a result of taking 50% increased damage in PVP. Outside of metamorphosis, their overall tankiness is going to be much lower than a resto druid's as a result of their mitigation and relatively high HP (in addition to the option to pre-hot with cen ward and pre-iron bark). It's actually because of this that the strategy of vengeance DH revolves around avoiding damage rather than being a big pwn tank with their big hp pool. Additionally, it's because of their HP pool and increased damage that makes vengeance DH's significantly harder to heal consistent damage than a resto druid; basically the % of HP healed per heal is going to be lower on a veng DH than rdruid, despite being less tanky.

    DH's kit will therefore allow it to avoid more damage than a rdruid, which logically means it's the better FC. However, I believe that if played at a high accuracy that rdruid will live much longer in a fair twink vs twink scenario. This is because of the concept of prepositioning. By positioning ahead of time and understanding the scenario in an in-depth manner, the need for said mobility that DH has becomes practically unnecessary. This isn't the main point, however. Even if an FC pre-positions perfectly, said FC can get dove at high stacks and die. This is especially the case in SL, where ranged slows run rampant in the bracket + 100% mounts; diving an EFC is simply extremely easy at the moment (requires HIGH stacks; 10+ usually). Thus, my point is that even though DH has its mobility- when kiting and getting slowed, said mobility will be equal to or less efficient druid shifting. Consequently, I do believe it's impossible to stop an FC from dying at high stacks over time. I'll refer to this concept of an FC inevitably dying as death-stacks (because it's edgy).

    My next point is that rdruid's death stacks is going to be placed higher than a DH's in a situation that both players play at an exceptionally high level. I think that based off of previous information stated, this isn't surprising. However, a couple things should be said regarding DH and rdruid in regards to playing as efficiently as I stated. First of all, playing perfectly as an Rdruid FC is incredibly difficult; a lot of experience is required. If an Rdruid makes a mistake, it will likely be punished much more than if a vengeance DH made a mistake. Additionally, vengeance DH has the pro of playing off of an enemy's mistake post-6 stacks, unlike Rdruid which almost completely loses this threat at high stacks.

    So essentially, DH is a much more forgiving FC than rdruid but will have its limits that are beneath rdruid's. Personally, I aim to play with as high of an accuracy as possible/as perfectly as possible, and therefore rdruid is the more attractive FC. I also don't mean to say that DH is easy to play as an FC, I'm simply saying that if played well it's going to be more forgiving; bad plays are still punished.

    This was a long post and I probably got sidetracked or said something confusing. If you have questions, jUaN#3807 is my discord.

    edit: I did calculate for DH's ability to hop up the GY; that is included in my definition of their mobility.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2021
    • Like Like x 7
    • Informative Informative x 3
    • Funny Funny x 1
  9. toskosa

    toskosa Member

    Messages:
    509
    Likes Received:
    384
    Trophy Points:
    63
    So can druids not shift out of surv hunters harpoon snare?
     
  10. Kakakaka

    Kakakaka Member

    Messages:
    73
    Likes Received:
    147
    Trophy Points:
    33
    They can. In fact, if timed perfectly with dash, the druid can get away from the hunter in record speed.
     
  11. toskosa

    toskosa Member

    Messages:
    509
    Likes Received:
    384
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Idk iwas just in a bg and I couldn't shif tout of harpoon. Maybe i was lagging or something idk.
     
  12. Kracks

    Kracks Grandfathered

    Messages:
    1,090
    Likes Received:
    484
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Shadow priest is the best fc r u stupid
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Funny Funny x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  13. OP
    glancealot

    glancealot Member

    Messages:
    2,478
    Likes Received:
    180
    Trophy Points:
    63
  14. ZenwØw

    ZenwØw Member

    Messages:
    693
    Likes Received:
    610
    Trophy Points:
    93
    DRUID FOOL
     
  15. Bestworld

    Bestworld MBA

    Messages:
    3,275
    Likes Received:
    1,732
    Trophy Points:
    123
    Just want to say that you can utilize indoors to negate the mount collapse. Especially in WSG where gauntletting roof becomes the preferred strategy at high enough stacks.

    Another point towards druid is that they can float roles more easily. They can actually help in mid while keeping a safe distance, and winning fights basically puts your team in a better position for a return, or forces early kiting for EFC, which again means that EFC will either take ~2-X of, usually, key classes with them, or kite alone, in which case there could be an opportunity for the objective classes (rogue, feral, hunter) to get a return. In either scenario, you and your team comes out ahead.

    DH has no other option than effectively stand back, giving them almost 0 value outside of pure FC. They almost have to play as if stacks had already been applied the moment they pick the flag (exaggerating a bit, but the general idea still stands).

    There are of course other points to be made as well, but yeah, druid > all (as of currently).
     
    • Like Like x 2
  16. Voc

    Voc 2017 Twink Cup Champion

    Messages:
    1,948
    Likes Received:
    393
    Trophy Points:
    83
    WSG and Twin Peaks.. soon my friends, soon
     
  17. LennywBT

    LennywBT SpeeDIO

    Messages:
    5,513
    Likes Received:
    332
    Trophy Points:
    83
    druid, always
    stealth is just too good
     
    • Like Like x 1
  18. Andre

    Andre 281425 Moderator 20s Coordinator

    Messages:
    1,019
    Likes Received:
    926
    Trophy Points:
    163
    best time to assert toybox dominance TBH.

    :KappaW:
     
    • Like Like x 1
  19. Kracks

    Kracks Grandfathered

    Messages:
    1,090
    Likes Received:
    484
    Trophy Points:
    83
    this and druid fc passing flag to stealth and go O. probably the best argument for druid fc tbh
     
    • Like Like x 2

Share This Page