balance update?

I'm well aware of all those abilities and know when to time my trinket, and look out for their cds. I could spread out the CDS, and the 26% haste is 20seconds, the 15% is refreshed every 5 wrath/starfire. Scatter is what.. 4 seconds(lul)? Then after the scatter, I'll add the 2nd or third cd being 20% haste. And how can you use los for anything, I can restealth? Also if we're talking arena you have limited places to run(arenas are small), and in a duel you'll get forfeiting notice, so if you just circle, I'll get you with travelform and have full hp/mana in the time. Or just run the other way and restealth. What's your next move in the virtual duel?



Mkkel/Jahju@FW
 
If you're in an arena there's more than plenty possibilities for a hunter to LoS mate - especially with a spamable concussion shot that have like 5 sec CD. Also they still have sting getting a restealth would be a waste of your own time..



We don't know the balance of arenas in 4.0.1-4.0.3a+ because we haven't had arenas since 3.3.5 - But claiming hunters are bad is just a general stupid idea considering the fact that everyone knows that it's the one class that stands the strongest in any general situation at the moment. Good CC, immobilising effects, damage utility and survival.



I'm not having a 'virtual duel' with you because it will never be like a real duel - so it's useless 'theorycrafting'.
 
Just to comment quickly on the "Bordering on Unplayable" comment in relation to warriors. I feel this to be true ... if you are flailing around the middle trying to zerg things. Im no master warrior considering ive only played for a relatively small amount of time but ive seen much better results when playing defense, with or without a healer. The class doesnt stand on its own in comparison to a Paladin or a Hunter but it can as stated before pump out some nifty dmg still. So depending on what you aim to achieve the class can still work.



I dont deny it lost most of its utility and is a hard class to pull off now, but ..... You have to learn to adapt ^^



Saosin
 
I am confident I will still be able to beat hunters as ret. maybe not any of the good ones but a majority of them are bad anyway.
 
Hehe, the duel thing were pretty sarcastic.



Well skill is of course the highest factor of pvp, a good pvper is a good pvper. But I don't agree with the common view of hunters being superior in any ways. I got travelform, roots, a dot, decent to very high damage in balance and I got decent heals on top of that. I can't see how you can call yourself superior, when my utilities outdo yours, while at the right time, my dps also outdoes yours. And remember. I can heal... freakin heal... Just no comparison.



Well gurubashi arena is a close mimic, you can always try out stuff to some degree there.



Mkkel/Jujah@FW
 
Mkkel said:
Well gurubashi arena is a close mimic, you can always try out stuff to some degree there.
Click to expand...



I'm sorry, but I have to comment on this being wrong. It's no where near a close mimic.



If anything, go to Nagrand arena. An arena with no LoS is not a close mimic to actual real arenas :)



Best regards,
 
Saosin said:
Just to comment quickly on the "Bordering on Unplayable" comment in relation to warriors. I feel this to be true ... if you are flailing around the middle trying to zerg things. Im no master warrior considering ive only played for a relatively small amount of time but ive seen much better results when playing defense, with or without a healer. The class doesnt stand on its own in comparison to a Paladin or a Hunter but it can as stated before pump out some nifty dmg still. So depending on what you aim to achieve the class can still work.



I dont deny it lost most of its utility and is a hard class to pull off now, but ..... You have to learn to adapt ^^



Saosin
Click to expand...



I have no problem with adapting. There is a point though that it becomes completely unfun and you have to accpet that the class needs some major improvements. If you want to have a shot at playing a warrior, you have to have a healer attached to you hip at all times. The best way to do this is to go FC, but, that's not really a great roll for warriors since they were stripped of all their utility and pushed into a burst dps roll, which was recently nerfed.



The only viable spec for overall utility is Fury because it's the only way to get a snare. 1h/shield fury is almost playable, but, still very gimp. You negate your own talent tree benefits just to be almost playable. Protection is a nice health boost and some decent talents but you're pretty much unable to support your healer and once they drop, your done for. Arms is kind of an all or nothing spec and if you can get a charge, you might get lucky with your rng. Something that inconsistant really isn't benefit to any team.



You can't maintain any ToT unless you spec Fury. Even then you're pretty much reduced to walking up to everything and trying to hit it, because every ranged class has a 40 yard spell that will put you into combat, taking away your only distance closer and your primary source of rage generation. There are things you can get away with in duels or simulated arenas, but, there are plenty better options. On their own, warriors are garbage and ultimately not worth a spot in a premade since other classes bring more utility and you don't have to babysit them.



None of that means that I'm going to stop playing my warrior. Trying to pass them off as something other than the worst class in the bracket by far is downright insulting.
 
fochixi - Exactly. That's the current state of warriors described perfectly - Anyone who dares to defy this is wrong and I question their knowledge of the current state of the 19 twinking scene.



That had to be said.
 
fochixi said:
I have no problem with adapting. There is a point though that it becomes completely unfun and you have to accpet that the class needs some major improvements. If you want to have a shot at playing a warrior, you have to have a healer attached to you hip at all times. The best way to do this is to go FC, but, that's not really a great roll for warriors since they were stripped of all their utility and pushed into a burst dps roll, which was recently nerfed.



The only viable spec for overall utility is Fury because it's the only way to get a snare. 1h/shield fury is almost playable, but, still very gimp. You negate your own talent tree benefits just to be almost playable. Protection is a nice health boost and some decent talents but you're pretty much unable to support your healer and once they drop, your done for. Arms is kind of an all or nothing spec and if you can get a charge, you might get lucky with your rng. Something that inconsistant really isn't benefit to any team.



You can't maintain any ToT unless you spec Fury. Even then you're pretty much reduced to walking up to everything and trying to hit it, because every ranged class has a 40 yard spell that will put you into combat, taking away your only distance closer and your primary source of rage generation. There are things you can get away with in duels or simulated arenas, but, there are plenty better options. On their own, warriors are garbage and ultimately not worth a spot in a premade since other classes bring more utility and you don't have to babysit them.



None of that means that I'm going to stop playing my warrior. Trying to pass them off as something other than the worst class in the bracket by far is downright insulting.
Click to expand...

This is everything i try blurt out when people try pass off warriors as not being nerfed.

Thank you good sir glad to see real people out there! <3
 
Well, hunters ofc do have advantages in low skilled pugs, where there is practically no healing, that's the reason for them being good in that aspect and imo therefor in the general view. But with any healing, I just can't see how the damage is heavy enough compared to warriors. And if we're talking about a warrior with a healer, vs a hunter with a healer, I know what side I'd rather be on. Better dmg, aoe slows, charge vs los, few self-heals. But I guess we'll all see the 14th. I don't share some of your views but in general you are right. I think warriors have the most impressive damage atm, and the 40yd spells against your charge is the only real nerf I see. Hp up(making more ap vail), damage up in geneal is up, better slow and victory rush for bgs. I'm way more confident bringing warriors now than before 4.0.1.



Mkkel/Jujah@FW
 
Mkkel said:
Well, hunters ofc do have advantages in low skilled pugs, where there is practically no healing, that's the reason for them being good in that aspect and imo therefor in the general view. But with any healing, I just can't see how the damage is heavy enough compared to warriors. And if we're talking about a warrior with a healer, vs a hunter with a healer, I know what side I'd rather be on. Better dmg, aoe slows, charge vs los, few self-heals. But I guess we'll all see the 14th. I don't share some of your views but in general you are right. I think warriors have the most impressive damage atm, and the 40yd spells against your charge is the only real nerf I see. Hp up(making more ap vail), damage up in geneal is up, better slow and victory rush for bgs. I'm way more confident bringing warriors now than before 4.0.1.



Mkkel/Jujah@FW
Click to expand...



NotSureIfSerious.jpg




i don't even....
 
Mkkel said:
Well, hunters ofc do have advantages in low skilled pugs, where there is practically no healing, that's the reason for them being good in that aspect and imo therefor in the general view. But with any healing, I just can't see how the damage is heavy enough compared to warriors. And if we're talking about a warrior with a healer, vs a hunter with a healer, I know what side I'd rather be on. Better dmg, aoe slows, charge vs los, few self-heals. But I guess we'll all see the 14th. I don't share some of your views but in general you are right. I think warriors have the most impressive damage atm, and the 40yd spells against your charge is the only real nerf I see. Hp up(making more ap vail), damage up in geneal is up, better slow and victory rush for bgs. I'm way more confident bringing warriors now than before 4.0.1.



Mkkel/Jujah@FW
Click to expand...



best troll I have seen on the forums all day.
 
Mkkel said:
Well, hunters ofc do have advantages in low skilled pugs, where there is practically no healing, that's the reason for them being good in that aspect and imo therefor in the general view. But with any healing, I just can't see how the damage is heavy enough compared to warriors. And if we're talking about a warrior with a healer, vs a hunter with a healer, I know what side I'd rather be on. Better dmg, aoe slows, charge vs los, few self-heals. But I guess we'll all see the 14th. I don't share some of your views but in general you are right. I think warriors have the most impressive damage atm, and the 40yd spells against your charge is the only real nerf I see. Hp up(making more ap vail), damage up in geneal is up, better slow and victory rush for bgs. I'm way more confident bringing warriors now than before 4.0.1.



Mkkel/Jujah@FW
Click to expand...



Disengage, Scattershot, Pet stun, Pet snare, Consussion vs Charge (which will never be used in a hunter vs warrior battle)



I think I know what side I'd rather be on too.



I don't have anything against Piercing Howl. It's a great snare. The problem is that you can't simply Charge/PH. The days of "spamstringing" people are over. Any ranged class will put you into combat before you can get your charge off. So now you have to walk into melee range and then generate rage to cast PH (most likely twice since they will probably trinket out of the first one) That might not be a problem vs some ranged classes. Vs Hunters it's impossible in open ground. In WSG vs opposing hunters, you'll be confined to in base flag defense. You're usless once you step outside your own tunnel.



In 2v2, It doesn't matter how much less burst a hunter does compared to a warrior. Any Hunter worth their salt will never let the Warrior to within melee range. A warrior has to have a healer with them at all time. In a 2v2 a Hunter can pair up with any other class. A hunter could take another dps class with them, kite the warrior and still send damage to your healer while their partner focuses on your healer. Healer drops and then you're getting 2v1'd.



I'm sure there is a "virtual duel scenario" you can create to convince yourself that warriors are playable, but, the reality is that you cannot recreate those results in WSG or Arenas. In every instance where you plug in a fury warrior, you could replace them with a Feral Druid, Enhancement Shaman, Paladin, or Rogue and do much better.
 
Hold - The - Boat!

I can't believe all of you think so sour of warriors now. I love my warrior, still my favorite twink to play . . . sigh, I don't know where to start . . . so I wont. Ill just say this, I've adapted. I don't have a problem beating almost any class. Ok, yes, Hunters pose a challenge - but are NOT unbeatable by any means (If I PHowl them, I can kill them before Disengage is off CD. np) I mean, I kill them all the time . . . I don't make things up, I'm telling the truth.



So I guess everyone can still QQ all day, and I'll still be having a blast on my warrior.



Some food for thought; Choose your battles carefully, choose your situations carefully, don't be afraid to turn and run the other way, and by no means go wander alone. Last but not least - learn how to Execute efficiently. 20% health and its over, everytime.



EDIT: For wsg that is, no one duels on my server . . . its dead like Brittney Murphy.
 
I'd say Balance druids are just as OP as hunters. 1k crits are win, prowl, good heals, and we are escape artists. ;D
 
oh, and don't ever ever ever use a 2h wep, or 1h +shield as Fury spec. It's really bad to do.



You "could" have your 1h shield equip. just in case a rogue opens up on you - but you better switch to DWield immediatly after the ambush, or the fail will hurt badly.



Situational awareness is key to be a good warrior now.
 
fochixi said:
I don't have anything against Piercing Howl. It's a great snare. The problem is that you can't simply Charge/PH. The days of "spamstringing" people are over. Any ranged class will put you into combat before you can get your charge off.
Click to expand...



No, do not simply walk into melee range vs. a hunter. You see them coming, find your escape route, you run away, lead them into a compromising situation (ex. friends of yours), then make your move. If you can't charge a hunter straight up - do not engage. Bide your time, its how we have to play now - and it works.



Be sheepish! Its OK!



EDIT: If you have a healer on your tail, completely different story.

And I'm not saying hunters never win vs. us - lol, but this is how we can close the gap.
 
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