balance update?

[fochixi]

No, do not simply walk into melee range vs. a hunter. You see them coming, find your escape route, you run away, lead them into a compromising situation (ex. friends of yours), then make your move. If you can't charge a hunter straight up - do not engage. Bide your time, its how we have to play now - and it works.



Be sheepish! Its OK!



EDIT: If you have a healer on your tail, completely different story.

And I'm not saying hunters never win vs. us - lol, but this is how we can close the gap.

I know all that. I do pick my spots. The problem is that the number of spots that present a winnable opportunity have decreased drastically. Vs competent hunters, that means you stay in your own base, or get into the opposing base as fast as possible. Which leaves you with a very narrow window of opportunity to actually help your team.



IF, and yes that's a bolded big if there, you have a competent and dedicated healer then you are a little better off. If you're facing a hunter incabable of kiting you until someone can come kill your healer then you're facing a bad hunter. If you're forced to run away with a 2v1 advantage, then the hunter has done their job and essentially made you and your healer a non factor.



I still love my warrior, but, the fact is that they are way below par at 19. They should have the most melee utility, but, instead they have the least. Yes my burst still drops people stupid enough to stand in front of me. When your opponent is skilled enough to know not to stay in melee range with you, you lose. When you're facing someone that understands that healers are top kill priority, you lose. Basically, you can still beat up on scrubs, so yay for that I guess.

 

[Clickplease]

I don't know what to tell ya . . . ya I've been kited before, and still do sometimes - but no worse than I was pre 4.0 patches. If anything, I'm kited less because of Piercing Howl.

To me it seems that hunter's and mages pose the greatest challenge, but fact of the matter is - no other classes pose a real threat. Only when facing those two classes does one need to take precautionary measures to ensure survival (tactical retreating), and because of this, everyone thinks warriors have lost their buzz.



We are more than efficient against 7/9 classes, and thats good enough for me.



EDIT: Also did you know warriors are the ONLY class with an Execute ability? (except for warlocks drain soul, which isn't the same thing). You only need to get your opponent down to 20%, then its over. I get some nasty Execute hits and even nastier crits. I hit for about 250, and I've had crits run ~700 with no crusader, post 4.0 patches.

 

[Clickplease]

I do understand your frustration though, and I do hope a lil more balance is added to the 19s bracket in the future. Until then . . .

 

[fochixi]

I don't know what to tell ya . . . ya I've been kited before, and still do sometimes - but no worse than I was pre 4.0 patches. If anything, I'm kited less because of Piercing Howl.

To me it seems that hunter's and mages pose the greatest challenge, but fact of the matter is - no other classes pose a real threat. Only when facing those two classes does one need to take precautionary measures to ensure survival (tactical retreating), and because of this, everyone thinks warriors have lost their buzz.



We are more than efficient against 7/9 classes, and thats good enough for me.



EDIT: Also did you know warriors are the ONLY class with an Execute ability? (except for warlocks drain soul, which isn't the same thing). You only need to get your opponent down to 20%, then its over. I get some nasty Execute hits and even nastier crits. I hit for about 250, and I've had crits run ~700 with no crusader, post 4.0 patches.

Sorry, but, I don't see how you can honestly say that kiting is just as bad as it's always been when originally there were only a couple specs that could max out at 37 yards while most everyone else was 30 and closer. There were also a couple of classes with instant cast spells at 30 yards that could nab you as well. Closing 5 yards within the span of time it takes for casters to complete their spell is doable. Over time that distance has grown to 15 yards for everyone. 15 yards is not a distance you will be able to cover unless you are constantly under the effects of speed boosts. I'm not really in the mood to spend 50g per bg using swiftpots.



More effecient than 7/9 classes.......how is that possible when we've lost all of our melee utility for straight up damage, which we cannot maintain the rage necesarry to support? pre 4.0 you could stand toe to toe vs other melee classes and not rely on lucky rng. Now that's all you have. You have no useful cooldowns that essentially set the pace for a contest of skill. I could seperate and hamstring kite rogues. Now they have a slow as well. I could keep druids close and maintain ToT, now they seperate with ease heal and come back at me. Paladins are generally a loss. Heck, shaman match ups aren't all that great either when you meet a skilled one.........but what can you expect when all warriors get to do is mash buttons and hope that rng saves them.



I can't disarm to negate damage or shield block, or get a big hit when I need it with Overpower. I'd gladly trade away execute to get some of the utility spells we had. Even though PH is superior to Hamstring in every way, I'd rather have hamstring since I could use it with other spec. Being bound to one spec only is garbage. The pro's are drastically outweighed by the cons. In the past 5 years, I've never seen 19 warriors in a worse state.



I've adapted as best as I can. I'll continue to play my warrior though these tough times. Turning a blind eye to the obvious because I love my warrior and like to see big numbers on occasion just doesn't cut it for me. Neither does sugarcoating it and only highlighting the optimal situation to play a warrior and using that as the baseline for the condition of the class. Those few moments where you get to play god mode with 3 healers in tow as you curb stomp a trash pug is not reality.



All the excitement I had about returning to twinking has simply been crushed by 4.0. Even when I do win an encounter, I rarely enjoy it because it never feels like I did anything more than mash buttons and got lucky with my rng.

 

[Pizza]

I'm going to update mine.



Tier 1: Hunter, Paladin, Mage

Tier 2: Priest, Druid, Warlock, Rogue

Tier 3: Shaman, Warrior



There we go. One minor change.

 

[Best Rogue EU]

Even when I do win an encounter, I rarely enjoy it because it never feels like I did anything more than mash buttons and got lucky with my rng.

ever tried world of warcraft?

 

[Clickplease]

More effecient than 7/9 classes.......how is that possible when we've lost all of our melee utility for straight up damage, which we cannot maintain the rage necesarry to support? pre 4.0 you could stand toe to toe vs other melee classes and not rely on lucky rng. Now that's all you have. You have no useful cooldowns that essentially set the pace for a contest of skill. I could seperate and hamstring kite rogues. Now they have a slow as well. I could keep druids close and maintain ToT, now they seperate with ease heal and come back at me. Paladins are generally a loss. Heck, shaman match ups aren't all that great either when you meet a skilled one.........but what can you expect when all warriors get to do is mash buttons and hope that rng saves them.



I can't disarm to negate damage or shield block, or get a big hit when I need it with Overpower. I'd gladly trade away execute to get some of the utility spells we had. Even though PH is superior to Hamstring in every way, I'd rather have hamstring since I could use it with other spec. Being bound to one spec only is garbage. The pro's are drastically outweighed by the cons. In the past 5 years, I've never seen 19 warriors in a worse state.

K, first, you misread my post. I did not say we were more effecient than 7/9 classes, I said we were more than effecient against 7/9 classes in combat. Meaning we can hold our own, not meaning they are somehow below the warrior. lol.

I can say this with absolute certainty, I don't loose a druid just because he shifts out of my Howl. Matter of fact, that never happens. I keep my eye on him, and unless I make a mistake, they're mine. That goes for any class (minus hunters and arcane mages) If I Howl you, I will not let you leave from then on out. And if I do, it means I made a mistake.



But anyhow, I don't see how we can agree on this.. I wish we would. I just know I am having a lot of fun on my warrior. It's good times. Its different, but I really really love Fury spec, so it doesn't matter to me that its the only viable option. I know we all are used to being the Juggernauts that run into the heat of battle just ripping everyone apart on the front lines.. but thats just not the case anymore, or at least right now.

 

[fochixi]

I misread nothing. your exact quote said "We are more than efficient against 7/9 classes, and thats good enough for me." There is nothing about "in combat" or any other conditions. I took that to mean that warriors have somehow improved vs 7/9 classes since 4.0. That is grossly inaccurate, and I gave you examples of why. (against vs than it's semantical. I got your point and responded accordingly) 4.0 has not improved any of our match ups, but, your opinion is that warriors are somehow better than they were, vs 7/9 classes. Please elaborate.



Your talk about druids is, as far as I have experienced, just talk. If they didn't moonfire me into combat to negate my charge, or stealth in to get their opener, I have a better shot, but, at some point the rage simply doesn't remain consistant enough to maintain PH while still casting your burst abilities. So eventually you dip below the point where you can casta PH, the druid escapes, roots, heals and can reopen on you when you're at half health. But please share what you think I can do to prevent this.



Having fun has nothing to do with how imbalanced the classes are. Just because you personally like having all the utility spells ripped out of your spellbook and having them replaced with dps button mash abilities, doesn't mean the class got any better. If I wanted to mash buttons and watch big numbers pop up, I'd find a level 1 training dummy and beat on that for awhile. I like playing bg's and arenas.............unfortunately "button mash ftw" tactics don't do well there. Good players using better classes with better utility spells will render that type of mindless buttonmashing useless.



If spaming the same 4 buttons and running away is your idea of fun, then you are correct about one thing: we will not agree on this.