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I'm sorry but this is a bad move. F2P and 24's have NOTHING in common and all F2P's should have their own forum and should be able to discuss anything. There's no reason for a F2P to be in the 20-24 forum.



If it stays this way, perhaps it would be best for someone to make a new forum away from TI for F2P's... I don't want that but I don't see a choice.
 
I'm sorry but this is a bad move. F2P and 24's have NOTHING in common and all F2P's should have their own forum and should be able to discuss anything. There's no reason for a F2P to be in the 20-24 forum.



If it stays this way, perhaps it would be best for someone to make a new forum away from TI for F2P's... I don't want that but I don't see a choice.



So you want to ignore the people you BG with every day on TI? Think about that for a minute. We've been more than fair by giving F2P their own section for discussing F2P content but also making a 20-24 section so that you guys can discuss in things that apply to everyone in the bracket. I don't see the problem as someone that has played a lvl 20 since the bracket started.



-Ink
 
Thank you for the hotfix<3
 
What would we discuss? Not gear, not AH, not guilds... We don't have the same spells so BG tactics is out... They grab the flag and cap it, end of difference IMO.



I understand your point of you, but I believe that it's like putting NFL and NCAA players together, yes they both play football but on a different level. I really don't wish to be disrespectful, but it's a whole different animal.



We may just have to agree to disagree in the end.
 
What would we discuss? Not gear, not AH, not guilds... We don't have the same spells so BG tactics is out... They grab the flag and cap it, end of difference IMO.



I understand your point of you, but I believe that it's like putting NFL and NCAA players together, yes they both play football but on a different level. I really don't wish to be disrespectful, but it's a whole different animal.



We may just have to agree to disagree in the end.



Wait, so are you arguing in favour of F2P and 20-24s being entirely separate? That is exactly what has happened.
 
What would we discuss? Not gear, not AH, not guilds... We don't have the same spells so BG tactics is out... They grab the flag and cap it, end of difference IMO.



I understand your point of you, but I believe that it's like putting NFL and NCAA players together, yes they both play football but on a different level. I really don't wish to be disrespectful, but it's a whole different animal.



We may just have to agree to disagree in the end.



I get your analogy but I didn't put the F2P together with 24 P2P...Blizz did. As long as they have things organized this way we would be remiss to not follow suit. Whether they should be in the same BG or not is not the argument here. The argument here is that since they are in the same BG there needs to be a place for everyone to communicate together.



I don't see why your panties are in knots with me as I've stated that I didn't put them together and I gave the F2P players their own section... Some might argue that I'm giving F2P preferential treatment. However, what I'm doing is creating a place for 20-24s to have their discussions and a place for F2P to have their discussions for only them. Sure there may be some overlap but this is the most logical way to organize until Blizz changes things (if/when).



-Ink
 
Blizzards 'intention' wasn't to make a new twink bracket. They just made a trial account so people would play to 20 then buy the game. But here we are anyways, a community based on equal limitations.



My 'panties' are just fine and I have tried very hard to remain respectful toward the staff here. Reality must be seen here, 24's only exist to stomp 20's and the two communities will NEVER engage in any BG cooperation discussion. I will continue to focus 24's and refuse to heal 24's on my own side. 24's lack respect and are only interested in 'roflpwning' lower levels and saying things like 'umadbro?'.



Yes, Blizz put us in the same bracket, but that doesn't mean we have to associate with them.
 
Blizzards 'intention' wasn't to make a new twink bracket. They just made a trial account so people would play to 20 then buy the game. But here we are anyways, a community based on equal limitations.



My 'panties' are just fine and I have tried very hard to remain respectful toward the staff here. Reality must be seen here, 24's only exist to stomp 20's and the two communities will NEVER engage in any BG cooperation discussion. I will continue to focus 24's and refuse to heal 24's on my own side. 24's lack respect and are only interested in 'roflpwning' lower levels and saying things like 'umadbro?'.



Yes, Blizz put us in the same bracket, but that doesn't mean we have to associate with them.



I understand your point as I used to argue that same point (ask Saxxon, Rivfader, and various others)...however, I've realized that I'm not going to change anyone's mind on which is better (read right or wrong) on a video game forum. If you want to pick up where I left off be my guest but it's a losing battle. I've said many times, the sooner everyone realizes they aren't going to change the minds of those on the opposite side of the argument, the better we will all be. My goal here is to create community and promote twinking in general and unless I'm mistaken 20 F2P are twinks and so are 24s...and guess what, they play in the same bracket.



-Ink
 
No, you have the right to congregate with other like-minded individuals, the issue is whether we are forced to congregate with them too.



I understand that we have our own forum, but it seemed like only guides and other specific things would be allowed, and it sounded like threads may be moved to the 20-24 forum.



I Have said this in the past, regular F2P's leveling 1 to 19 won't ever run into a 20 twink and even when they do, a F2P twink isn't as overpowered as a fresh 20 that has run Stocks and BFD.
 
I Have said this in the past, regular F2P's leveling 1 to 19 won't ever run into a 20 twink and even when they do, a F2P twink isn't as overpowered as a fresh 20 that has run Stocks and BFD.



I've seen some F2P twinks with 1200+hp and some nice gear so I think your point is a bit overstated. A fresh 20 that has run through stocks and BFD will have no gear/spell/talent advantages over a F2P 20 twink. While your argument is valid, it doesn't take into account that regular F2Ps will run into 20 twinks (both P2P and F2P) and 24 twinks.



You want to argue that the bracket is alive because of F2P players (essentially trials) which is true. But don't you also get that 20 F2P twinks are basically the same thing that 20/24 P2P twinks are to legit F2P players (though at a smaller scale)?



Again, I see your point as I've argued it again and again but we all have to get off our high horses and stop pretending that we're the good guys and everyone else that plays different than us is the bad guy. To each their own. And as I've stated my goal as the person steering TI is to promote twinking in all its varieties and hopefully in other games in the future.



-Ink
 
I'm confused, what more did you guys want? You got your own section in the forums (on top of the other brackets atm), and threads are being migrated.
 
Drayner said:
Are you one of those "F2P Community guys" that belittle true honest F2P players that are learning about Wow and trying to determine whether they want to drop $15/mo to play Wow during the prep time in a BG?



Do you take it easy on 20s with 400-500 health that are just learning this game?



And yes, you are correct. I made 4 24 twinks just to 'roflpwning' lower levels, does that mean I should have the right to discuss my bracket on Twink Info?

I have never seen anyone in the bracket with <700 health. Even if there do exist a few, they are the exception not the norm and they know what they are signing up for. On the other hand a 24 playing in this bracket will likely see that 70-90% of his opponents are 4 levels below them and likely with half as much health, who can't do anything about it. This is your classic apples and oranges.



No it isn't your fault that 20's are lumped in with 24's but 24's have the option to go play in a competitive bracket in their own range rather then staying in this one, likely for the sole purpose of taking advantage of their level, skills, talent and gear difference. If blizzard ever let F2P or lvl 20's have their own bracket, ask yourself if you would really stay in the 24's...
 
I'm confused, what more did you guys want? You got your own section in the forums (on top of the other brackets atm), and threads are being migrated.

We are ecstatically happy now. This is not where we were located when the forum move was initially revealed.
 
I'm confused, what more did you guys want? You got your own section in the forums (on top of the other brackets atm), and threads are being migrated.

Thank you. It did not appear at first as if this was going to be the case which is what prompted the feedback.
 
No it isn't your fault that 20's are lumped in with 24's but 24's have the option to go play in a competitive bracket in their own range rather then staying in this one, likely for the sole purpose of taking advantage of their level, skills, talent and gear difference. If blizzard ever let F2P or lvl 20's have their own bracket, ask yourself if you would really stay in the 24's...



I'm not trying to be a jerk but I've got to be honest that I'm tired to explaining this. You have your section and there's a section for 20-24s...what you have just asked for in your quote has been given to you. Why are you complaining?



Perhaps the underlying issue here is that you F2P people got used to preferential treatment and now that we're clarifying and organizing things to promote all forms of twinking (as opposed to the implied everyone should play F2P promotion of the old forum organization) you're upset that you don't have preferential treatment. But oh you do still have some preferential treatment if you just look...you have a forum just for F2P where we've made it clear that no 24 is allowed to post. Keep in mind that the old organization of the forums was not intended to be a promotion of 20 F2P over 24s...but I guess some of you took it that way.



If you heard my arguments for 20 F2P and the organization of the forums as a Pro 20 F2P stance (in opposition of 24s) here at TI, I'm sorry. I/we did not intend it. We simply want everyone that twinks for every reason to be able to discuss on these forums. And certainly the staff has opinions on why we should twink and how we should twink, but staff opinions don't mean that TI is going to mistreat fellow twinks with different opinions.



-Ink
 
Drayner said:
This thread exemplifies one of the biggest reasons I am glad that I don't work here anymore. People don't appreciate shit. Wah wah wah wah wah... all I hear is wah. Fuck ya'll.



You sir....should quit the internet. You will only be frustrated.
 
Drayner said:
Are you one of those "F2P Community guys" that belittle true honest F2P players that are learning about Wow and trying to determine whether they want to drop $15/mo to play Wow during the prep time in a BG?



Do you take it easy on 20s with 400-500 health that are just learning this game?



It is common in the BG PUGs that experienced players review their teammembers' gear before the battle starts. It is common on the horde side to see a couple of sub-800 toons, but they are generally encouraged to update their gear. It is pretty common to see a player say something like; "hey, sub800. you really need to put some work into gearing up better before doing more battlegrounds. check out the gear on x. they are the same class as you and they are wearing gear that mostly drops in..." If they are a new player, they sometimes haven't figured out how to queue for specific dungeons and are tired of doing wailing and shadowfang forever. It is hard to help improve anyone on the opposite side...
 
I'm not trying to be a jerk but I've got to be honest that I'm tired to explaining this. You have your section and there's a section for 20-24s...what you have just asked for in your quote has been given to you. Why are you complaining?

I wasn't quoting or referring to you with that statement.



To be fair, I also made the post when the forums were organized differently, when they were originally a sub-forum under "alternative twinking" at the bottom of the page and then you and a few other moderators said "it's better this way". We voiced the complaint, it got addressed (or it was going to be this way) everything seems ok now. But that context is important.



Perhaps the underlying issue here is that you F2P people got used to preferential treatment and now that we're clarifying and organizing things to promote all forms of twinking (as opposed to the implied everyone should play F2P promotion of the old forum organization) you're upset that you don't have preferential treatment. But oh you do still have some preferential treatment if you just look...you have a forum just for F2P where we've made it clear that no 24 is allowed to post. Keep in mind that the old organization of the forums was not intended to be a promotion of 20 F2P over 24s...but I guess some of you took it that way.



If you heard my arguments for 20 F2P and the organization of the forums as a Pro 20 F2P stance (in opposition of 24s) here at TI, I'm sorry. I/we did not intend it. We simply want everyone that twinks for every reason to be able to discuss on these forums. And certainly the staff has opinions on why we should twink and how we should twink, but staff opinions don't mean that TI is going to mistreat fellow twinks with different opinions.



-Ink

I don't think the forums are promoting one group over the other (nor should they), but I do think they should be separate (as they are) because posts will likely be irrelevant to either side.
 
As long as you guys are happy with those changes that were made. It sounded like that wasn't all that you wanted from the most recent posts before mine.
 
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