Agi vs Stam/HP Stack Rogue?

Discussion in '19s (Vanilla)' started by iLennie, Aug 30, 2020.

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  1. Arkant

    Arkant Freedom~

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    Cennix adjusts 15 agi and 100 str to 22.5/150 to account for offhand damage which benefits from AP at 50% value there for 150% total value.

    You need a total DPS value to accurately calculate crits value so I assume he picked 60 because it is about as much as his rogue has.

    The multipliers for Fiery/LS adjust damage for resistance.

    The 60% multiplier adjusts damage for armor.

    Your math only works against naked targets while his takes actual gear into account.

    Also @Cennix jfc your math is worse to look at than my post from last night even if its correct :/

    Also this part is really wonky and makes no sense.
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2020
  2. Symandria

    Symandria Grandfathered

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    I have since cleaned up my post and clarified many things : ) I hope you'll know be able to follow all the math and verify my conclusions.
     
  3. Arkant

    Arkant Freedom~

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    Don't worry, my post is in response to your edited post.

    I also missed the fact that you are calculating the strength from Crusader as agility when it should be treated as AP.
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2020
  4. Symandria

    Symandria Grandfathered

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    Opps... good catch I did list the wrong value for that. It's now been corrected, thank you : )
     
  5. Arkant

    Arkant Freedom~

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    The whole AP/Agi > DPS calculation is still really wonky and doesn't make any sense though :/
     
  6. Symandria

    Symandria Grandfathered

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    You weren't wrong... I went back and fixed multiple mistakes in there. Thanks for proofreading it! Please try looking at it again, I hope it's now more clear and logically reasonable : )
     
  7. ExudeCans

    ExudeCans Grandfathered

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    every time he posts the opposite of what he’s saying is true
     
  8. Assaśin-PWV

    Assaśin-PWV Member

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    If you play rogue objectively or competitively I don't see why you would value HPS > DPS at all.
    First of all generally speaking an FC has peelers, roots, healers and so forth, not to mention constantly on the move and trying to lose you. So as Cennix already stated the window you get to apply damage is minimal.

    Your sole purpose as a Rogue is to connect, and apply as much damage as you possibly can into that small time you get. So your HPS is an opportunity forgone in this scenario. Also when you take into consideration in a 10v10 Scenario the Enemy Team generally speaking has almost 0 damage in defence and operate purely to kite, heal and separate you from the FC. Which can often be the case in pugs too, but harder to predict.
    HPS is again not needed, considering you generally have a Priest on O, or other utility classes which can top you up from the minimal damage.

    So as a Rogue, who plays objectively? then your BiS is very clear, x2 Fiery weapon. Literally no competition or arguements; Kill FC? Fiery Weapon.

    Gear wise, there is 2 further options, you can actually get more DPS if you stack AP bonus rather than Agi/Stam, Iv got a set like this but unfortunately gives 650-700hp. Pretty much a meme Glass Cannon build, but it really does put the damage in when you don't need to worry about your hp. Used to use that in premades, and still never really died due to lack of damage on Defence.

    Only gear option I might rate over DPS for killing an FC is, resistance. If you can resist the slows, roots and fears, then you theoretically connect for a while longer, which lets you put more damage in. So gimping DPS for Resistance is acceptable.




    So again as Cennix said, if you want to play objectively, Fiery is by far superior in every way.
    If you want to play the Dodge game vs Rogues/Hunters, then buy a 2nd set with AGI.
     
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  9. shanker

    shanker Member

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    classis wow obviously is not van wow

    in van wow, and TBC
    lifestealing was 6ppm. 30 fire damage, 30 heal (in van wow originally 30 shadow damage)
    fiery was same as LS, no heal

    in van wow, dodge and dodge scaling from agility was not what it became in TBC.

    fiery came into power in WOTLK, blizz did some stealth buff on procs or damage

    in van wow and TBC it was more common to stam stack, use LS, Crusader, and +15 agi more in TBC. the old twink site prior to twink info, majority of rogue builds went stam focused 100hp helm, 100hp to chest, and 100 to fang legs van wow or agi/stam leg armor TBC

    movement in stealth was slow, and stealth was not to the level you have in retail. rogues not pointed were easy to see in stealth trying to set up their hopeful BS, rogues doing this were a liability to the team spending to much time in stealth. on my warrior, i could see 2-3 trying to set up, i would attack one, keep moving, kill 1 or 2, where is they just opened attacked at start would have wiped me
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2020
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