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[Bestworld]

Yeah, that's what i've said, you're too dependent on teammates to actually do the job well. Dmg is shit, survival is shit, utility is quite ok but u cant kill a thing by yourself, only bads maybe.

Also those 2xSS are kinda useless talking about target uptime.

Im not having fun at all for the first time in so many years of low lvl rogue. And yes, healers piss on you and most no braindead dps classes.

Add to this shit teammates and you have the perfect ingredient to logoff instantly and do something else.

Now i wonder where is the WOW factor @Bestworld told me about in playing sub rogue at 29?

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Ok, how is x2 shadowstep useless in terms of up-time? They are amazing gap closers and opens you up to a lot of gameplay mechanics. On top of that you have a dot that slows + increases your damage, and is literally the only thing you should spend combo points on since eviscerate isn't worth the energy. Gloomblade hits harder. On top of that you can opt to open with cheapshot, which also gives you more time on target.

Look at it this way. Since your slow is essentially a dot, it's always re-applying as you hit your target, either through abilities or auto attacks. This makes it harder for druids to essentially kite you, spamming shapeshifts, because the slow just gets re-applied more or less instantly, since the dot persist through the shapeshifting. No other melee than sub rogue and WW monk has this almost "no effort" kind of slow (unless I missed something). And should your target get away you don't have just one, but two gap closers... How is the up-time bad?....

Overall, I still make it work. I don't know what else to tell you. Again, I specifically stated that they won't be able to compete with arms warriors and sv hunters on damage. But saying that 29 rogue is shit isn't true at all.

The "wow" factor, as you call it, is what I elaborated in my previous posts. I still stand by that. Idk if I will call it a "wow" factor though. Your words, not mine. Regardless, rogues can still compete.

Inb4 you go back on previous expansions rants again. Adapt to the gameplay, or play one of the fotm specs if you want the faceroll damage factor. Is rogue what it used to be in the previous expansions? No. Does that mean they are shit? No, because looking at the overall state of the game, rogues fare just fine as 29 sub. Play and get used to the situations as to what you can and cannot do. It's not WoD rogue anymore. I know that.

 

[Achmed]

Considering u lack Crippling and Pistol Shot, most classes can get away from you even if you have 2xSS. Your uptime suck balls. Yeah mate, tried that dot, always up, im not a tard, still, your uptime is laughable because almost everyone can run off over and over and this + the silly dps you output.. it's just.. LOL

As about adapting.. oh well, you have a point here but tbh from my POV, there's nothing to adapt to. The most important thing a PURE DPS class has (DPS that is), rogue at 29 is missing and that hurts badly. If i'd want to play a support class i'd play a healer tbh because, as @Dramatized said, atm rogue is a support class only.

I have nothing against you if u love the way rogue is atm. For me, as a rogue PVP player only since TBC, this isnt rogue anymore, it's a mess a disgrace. If u like it, fine by me, but it's clear already rogue isnt not even T2 in this bracket.

Point is i'm not seeing the rogue is fine. You said to me i should L2P, what exactly? Tried to play it and everything i've said before it seems to be true.

PS: The time it takes for me to build CP-s to apply that dot, then regen energy to actually to dmg, the opponent is tearing me apart

 

[Bestworld]

Considering u lack Crippling and Pistol Shot, most classes can get away from you even if you have 2xSS. Your uptime suck balls. Yeah mate, tried that dot, always up, im not a tard, still, your uptime is laughable because almost everyone can run off over and over and this + the silly dps you output.. it's just.. LOL

As about adapting.. oh well, you have a point here but tbh from my POV, there's nothing to adapt to. The most important thing a PURE DPS class has (DPS that is), rogue at 29 is missing and that hurts badly. If i'd want to play a support class i'd play a healer tbh because, as @Dramatized said, atm rogue is a support class only.

I have nothing against you if u love the way rogue is atm. For me, as a rogue PVP player only since TBC, this isnt rogue anymore, it's a mess a disgrace. If u like it, fine by me, but it's clear already rogue isnt not even T2 in this bracket.

Point is i'm not seeing the rogue is fine. You said to me i should L2P, what exactly? Tried to play it and everything i've said before it seems to be true.

PS: The time it takes for me to build CP-s to apply that dot, then regen energy to actually to dmg, the opponent is tearing me apart

I liked rogue better in the previous expansions better, as would any rogue player. No one wants to see their class in a state worse than what they were before.

As to applying the dot/slow; cheapshot > Nightblade > rotation > re-apply Nightblade before it falls off. How long you can drag it out for depends on what you are against and their current CD's. You don't want them to be able to get away and regain full movement speed once they gain the slightest distance. The slow and damage buff is static, so you don't need the full CP duration 24/7. This type of rotation won't hurt you, since you have no other finisher to spend combo points on when you get to the point where you'd have to re-apply it.

What are the arguments as to why rogue isn't fine? Because you can't solo a healer? That depends on the healer class I'd say. And what about boomkins? They are arguably S-tier, and they don't solo healers either. Takes too long and simply isn't worth the time. The classes has so much more to offer. As to losing 1v1's vs other dps classes, that all depends on class/cd/situation. What class/classes do you have trouble with? Boomkin, warrior, sv hunter? Oh, cool, just like everyone else despite those classes themselves.

You can 100% 1v1 a warrior if you have evasion up and get the opener on him.

Vs sv hunter you'll need trinket + evasion + ideal opener, which is sap on pet > open hunter. If the hunter use bullheaded to free the pet, blind the pet (hopefully before sac) > continue rotation on hunter. If the hunter trinkets, you don't pop evasion. You blind the hunter and kill the pet. Pet dies fast-ish, even if it has full health. You kill pet while kiting more and more away from the hunter. Without ranging the pet too much, you want constant up-time for most efficient damage on the pet. Just as the pet is about to die, you shadowstep it for extra movement speed and get even further away from the hunter and re-stealth. You then crimson vial for health > sap hunter > first aid > stealth > (dr's should be reset by now) re-open > usual rotation > evasion as cheapshot falls off. Trinket the trap, because if he has brains, he'll try to trap your evasion duration + ress pet in that time.

Should you win vs any of these classes head-on without ideal scenarios, or basically any favorable situation? No, because they are fotm specs. Is what it is, and you have to take it for that. You have to look at what you could/should be doing in the game. What does the situation call for? You put yourself in most situations. That's the luxury of a stealth class.

As to being blown up super fast, that is 100% true, assuming you're getting focused by multiple players and/or fotm callses + specs. This also means that going for yolo plays like you could pull off so much easier before, is way harder to do now. It basically requires the enemy team to be far less superior than yourself. However, there is a point in time where you can do what most others can't, and that's pulling off solo plays vs FC with stacks even if he has people on D. You have the control and damage at that point to pull something off, and you have easy access due to stealth. A lot of other classes won't even be able to reach the FC, because the defenders will simply see you coming and take action before you even reach him.

 

[Achmed]

@Bestworld,

Tbh i don't know why you've posted this wall of text with things i already knew. Told you several times already, i'm not new to rogue and rogue mechanics it seems you keep forgetting.

You're speaking mostly on ideal/situational scenarios and even then a rogue should benefit from THIS or THAT to actually stand a chance. Few posts behind you were saying about OKish dps of rogue having over 2k gloomblades and stuff. We are two people already saying you're wrong with those numbers thus the DPS of A DPS class is subpar. Rogue in Legion 20-29 is no menace at all to anyone. Sure, u can pull some stunts when stars align now and then but that's not enough it's beyond retarded that a pure DPS class IS below 80% of this brackets DPS cuz.. it really is.

And again my friend, if i wanted a support class, i would roll a healer. That's why i consider rogue shit and no one will make me change my opinion with false numbers proven wrong with ease or with perfect scenarios and stars aligned.

Now, i don't know how sub rogue is at 19, seen you more active there and you even told me of you 800 blades on your 19. We're talking about 29 here.

I understood by myself already, rogue isnt what it was back in the day, but it is in his worst state ever. At least for now.

 

[Bestworld]

@Bestworld,

Tbh i don't know why you've posted this wall of text with things i already knew. Told you several times already, i'm not new to rogue and rogue mechanics it seems you keep forgetting.

You're speaking mostly on ideal/situational scenarios and even then a rogue should benefit from THIS or THAT to actually stand a chance. Few posts behind you were saying about OKish dps of rogue having over 2k gloomblades and stuff. We are two people already saying you're wrong with those numbers thus the DPS of A DPS class is subpar. Rogue in Legion 20-29 is no menace at all to anyone. Sure, u can pull some stunts when stars align now and then but that's not enough it's beyond moronic that a pure DPS class IS below 80% of this brackets DPS cuz.. it really is.

And again my friend, if i wanted a support class, i would roll a healer. That's why i consider rogue shit and no one will make me change my opinion with false numbers proven wrong with ease or with perfect scenarios and stars aligned.

Now, i don't know how sub rogue is at 19, seen you more active there and you even told me of you 800 blades on your 19. We're talking about 29 here.

I understood by myself already, rogue isnt what it was back in the day, but it is in his worst state ever. At least for now.

I'll log my 29 over the weekend and have a go at and see how it is. I'll do some screenshots and see if it's still the same.

 

[Nutbreaker]

@Bestworld,

Tbh i don't know why you've posted this wall of text with things i already knew. Told you several times already, i'm not new to rogue and rogue mechanics it seems you keep forgetting.

You're speaking mostly on ideal/situational scenarios and even then a rogue should benefit from THIS or THAT to actually stand a chance. Few posts behind you were saying about OKish dps of rogue having over 2k gloomblades and stuff. We are two people already saying you're wrong with those numbers thus the DPS of A DPS class is subpar. Rogue in Legion 20-29 is no menace at all to anyone. Sure, u can pull some stunts when stars align now and then but that's not enough it's beyond moronic that a pure DPS class IS below 80% of this brackets DPS cuz.. it really is.

And again my friend, if i wanted a support class, i would roll a healer. That's why i consider rogue shit and no one will make me change my opinion with false numbers proven wrong with ease or with perfect scenarios and stars aligned.

Now, i don't know how sub rogue is at 19, seen you more active there and you even told me of you 800 blades on your 19. We're talking about 29 here.

I understood by myself already, rogue isnt what it was back in the day, but it is in his worst state ever. At least for now.

You're still wrong though. Maybe 29 rog doesn't shine as much in Eots, but rog is a solid 1v1 class with stealth, which in AB is great for capping flags. Also wsg, I'd say 29 rog is one of the best classes there is obj wise. When EFC has multiple stacks, you can easily solo him. Sapping their healer -> ss kick is almost guaranteed a kill. You say "support" class, rogue doesn't really fall into this category. It's an objective class and always had been, you say you've played rog for years but it doesn't mean you're a good rogue (I played against you yesterday and it was pretty clear you're awful).

 

[Achmed]

You're still wrong though. Maybe 29 rog doesn't shine as much in Eots, but rog is a solid 1v1 class with stealth, which in AB is great for capping flags. Also wsg, I'd say 29 rog is one of the best classes there is obj wise. When EFC has multiple stacks, you can easily solo him. Sapping their healer -> ss kick is almost guaranteed a kill. You say "support" class, rogue doesn't really fall into this category. It's an objective class and always had been, you say you've played rog for years but it doesn't mean you're a good rogue (I played against you yesterday and it was pretty clear you're awful).

For capping flags in AB yes, you are above everyone.

1vs1 solid class atm? We are playing the same game?

Now regarding the yesterdays game, juking a kick makes a person awful? I wonder how those R1's feel about your statement.

What exactly i shoul've done to be at least decent in your small eyes yesterday considering i was facing two games in a row your premade full of balance druids and healz and second one, your premade + 4 hunters, my team being full of random levellers.

The only thing to do was play for lulz because as i've constantly saying over and over on this topic, rogue can't do shit alone in Legion specially vs organised groups.

But hate more and stay small, at least on these forums you can act like one that has a clue about this game when u clearly have none proof being the "omg i juked your 1 kick, u bad" rofl - that ofc if u are that priest, don't know u, like i've said, u're a random to me.

The only thing rogues are still good at at 29: https://clips.twitch.tv/AdventurousTubularScorpionVoteYea , nothing else, but that's so very situational.

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