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[Bestworld]

Rogue atm is kinda shit at 20-29, no actual def cd when outstealthed, dmg isnt that great either, utility... meh it's a zerg fest anyways in bg's, your sap and/or blinds will break instantly when a bunch of mongos are running all around you.

Rogue as a dps only class it's in a really bad state in this bracket. But, even so, if you are a rogue lover, you can give it a try, you'll still have fun just dont imagine you'll be wiping ppl like you used to in the past, that won't happen.


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Define "really bad state". Because you can't ambush someone down to 15-10% hp?

And yes, your blind may break instantly in those clown fiesta fights, but during more isolated situations, such as 1v1, 1v2, 2v2, 3v3, which is the scenarios you will find yourself in most of the time if you are playing rogue objectively, is completely different. You're in the mongo fights maybe 1/10th of the entire duration of the BG.

You're an objective class, and not a "sit mid and pump dmg, keep going head-to-head" class. Rogues are doing really good atm at the roles they are required in.

 

[Achmed]

Really bad state compared to what it was in the past dmg and survivability wise.

And like i've already said, cosidering it's a dps-only class, his dmg being lower than most hybrids it's just lol.

Those 1v1 situations are rare these days if we talk about objective play.


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[Nutbreaker]

Really bad state compared to what it was in the past dmg and survivability wise.

And like i've already said, cosidering it's a dps-only class, his dmg being lower than most hybrids it's just lol.

Those 1v1 situations are rare these days if we talk about objective play.


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How is it a dps only class with the most cc for that level? + double ss for mobility

 

[Achmed]

That double SS and cc is useless if your dmg can't down your target fast enough before others come to the rescue. You're giving me example of some special situations, situations you won't encounter that often in a BG.

There are 19 more people in there and if half of them are not braindead you would die in seconds when u pop out of stealth cuz... your survivability is amongst the worst of all classes. A dead in seconds rogue = no dps, no cc, nothing.

I believe you're the easiest class to kill at 20-29, maybe i'm mistaking because haven't played that much. Enjoying too much assa rogue at 110 after the wow-break i've had.

Bottom line is, you don't have the dmg nor the survivability to finish your target when focused, before u die.


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[Nutbreaker]

That double SS and cc is useless if your dmg can't down your target fast enough before others come to the rescue. You're giving me example of some special situations, situations you won't encounter that often in a BG.

There are 19 more people in there and if half of them are not braindead you would die in seconds when u pop out of stealth cuz... your survivability is amongst the worst of all classes. A dead in seconds rogue = no dps, no cc, nothing.

I believe you're the easiest class to kill at 20-29, maybe i'm mistaking because haven't played that much. Enjoying too much assa rogue at 110 after the wow-break i've had.

Bottom line is, you don't have the dmg nor the survivability to finish your target when focused, before u die.


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I don't think you understand how CC works, you don't need to couple CC with damage to be relevant. Also rogue actually has a defensive cd, unlike most classes at 29. Maybe you don't know how survivability works as well.

If you haven't played much, then your opinions aren't relevant. Stop posting on stuff you clearly have no idea about.

 

[Achmed]

Indeed, i have no clue, but i've played rogue 10 years in a row.

Maybe you should teach me to play rogue sensei.

/peace

ps: wowheading now, you are right, at 26 u get evasion. I've experienced only 20 at 20-29 where evasion is missing. But even so, low dmg compared with only a frontal physical dodge (a warrior will tear u apart anyways), it will send u to GY in seconds considering you can't face everyone while trying to nuke that damn EFC.

Have i said something about casters that piss on your Evasion? Oh well..


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[Nutbreaker]

Indeed, i have no clue, but i've played rogue 10 years in a row.

Maybe you should teach me to play rogue sensei.

/peace


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You've played rogue for 10 years and you think rogue cc needs to be coupled with dmg? Your main cc (sap, incase you didn't know) literally breaks with damage. The same for blind.

Maybe your carer has been letting you play too many video games.

 

[Achmed]

See my edited msg above as about the CC and DMG you got it wrong, totally.

But nvm, like i've said, you should teach me some rogue playstyle.

I was just stating above that sap/blind break.. you silly


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[Nutbreaker]

See my edited msg above as about the CC and DMG you got it wrong, totally.

But nvm, like i've said, you should teach me some rogue playstyle.

I was just stating above that sap/blind break.. you silly


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Idek what you're talking about anymore. I don't play rog m8 and I'm still better than you.

 

[Achmed]

U can't even spell rogue but yeah, you're better indeed

/peace


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[Iild]

lmao why are u idiots trashtalking achmed when he's one of the top rogues this brackets ever seen

 

[Bubples]

holy fuck, when a thread turns, into a Rog discussion post XD

 

[Bestworld]

See my edited msg above as about the CC and DMG you got it wrong, totally.

But nvm, like i've said, you should teach me some rogue playstyle.

I was just stating above that sap/blind break.. you silly


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Okay, so I just had to reply to this, because, seriously? (and this is regarding your previous posts as well, prior to the one I am quoting right now).

Rogues are not, and never will be, a type of class that charges head in 1v5 / 2v5, or in situations where you can get instantly turned on and blown up. If this happens, it's because you put yourself in that position, and not because of rogues being inferior. You have tons of ways to deal with a hectic fight. Do you have any idea how huge x2 shadowstep is? For starters, you can shadowstep the fuck out, stepping to a back-lining teammate. Or put up Archmage Vargoth and step to him. You can pretty much step to a lot of places during the fight to strengthen your advantage. If you want, you can step in to secure a stun and a kill for your team on whatever target they focus, and step the fuck out again. There, done deal, you've done your job.

However, your main role as a rogue is not being an outright killing machine. You're not a warrior, and this isn't vanilla anymore with 80% dodge or whatever the fuck and 2 shot mechanics. Think about your plays and how you can utilize the situation. You expressed your concerns towards my examples as being some sort of niche, when they're really not. You have stealth dude, you put yourself in the situations you happen to be in. So if you open someone and get blown the fuck up, it's because you made a tactical error. You shouldn't have opened (but that really depends on the situation, you could have had a healer or whatever nearby, and you assessed the situation accordingly, and your healer or whoever happened to be there was just not awake or whatever, but you get the general idea).

What you should be focusing on is putting yourself in those situations around the map where rogue's strengths thrive. Those situations are objective plays, such as delaying a healer rejoining a fight after he dies if possible (on wsg for example), maybe even kill him if you can isolate him). Delaying/Killing EFC, isolating and killing targets that has been separated from the group in attempts to make objective plays of their own, ninja bases, etc. etc. A lot of the times you will then be finding yourself in a 1v1/1v2 (only attempt 1v2's when absolutely necessary, or remotely winable)/2v2/3v3. Your time will then be 1/10th of a clown fiesta mid jaja fight than what it usually is on other classes. I'm not saying avoid mid at all cost. Do some plays mid when needed, assess the situation and play around it (i.e. again, shadowstep in or out of the fight when needed etc.). Sap some targets.

As you can see, you have plenty of roles to fill out, and your class is amazing at it. And as for the damage being bad, that's straight up just not true. In decent gear (and using Jagged Wing Slasher - 2.60 speed quest dagger), you should do 2k to 2k+ gloomblades depending on target. When I pop Orc racial for example, I average 2.3k-2.5k gloomblades, and around the previous mentioned numbers outside of that.

It seems like you haven't played a level 29 rogue much, or at all this patch.

 

[Iild]

It seems like you haven't played a level 29 rogue much, or at all.

he's probably the oldest 29 twink here with 100% of that played on rogue

thats mad awkward kev

 

[Bestworld]

he's probably the oldest 29 twink here with 100% of that played on rogue

thats mad awkward kev

Sure as hell hasn't been playing recently, or been playing it as an 8-yr-old backpeddler, idk.

Edit: I hate when people downtalk certain classes when they are literally in a pretty good shape. 29 rogue is pretty fucking good.

 

[Achmed]

Ok since you've provided a constructive post well written and full of decency, i'm gonna reply to you.

Now, every aspect you've covered there i'm aware of. This can be clearly seen on my youtube channel that contain alot of rogue footage from the start of F2P few years ago upto endgame rogue pvp.

Again, you've got the wrong idea. I didn't say rogue has no tools, i said everything is very situational and you can't actually win games by yourself when most of your team is shit because... reasons stated above. This i've managed to do back in the day, this class allowed me, had the necessary tools and also the required pressure.

This expac i havent played rogue at 29 indeed even tho i have like 3 of them (oldschool ones like the above poster said). I've played only lvl20 tried all specs and settled to the former combat because it seemed the most decent between the 3 of them.

Now at 29 things change a bit indeed, cuz sub becomes acually viable. Thing is, even so, for me, the rogue in the current state at 20-29 at least, isn't what it used to be and old rogue players can support that.

You could do so much more in a short period of time back in a day that could lead to winning. And i tell u that because i was a teamplayer that didn't like to lose bg's at all.

Now, even if i havent played 29 this expac, i've seen so many lvl29 rogues in my bg's and they havent managed to actually strive the way you're describing the 29 rogue. They were as squishy as me, as fucked up when about to stay on target as me, etc, no actual WOW factor.

Now, don't tell me they were all shit. Really? Then where do all the 29 rogue gods hide?

My point is, compared to other classes, rogue today feels empty...

Take for example warrs, paladins, i'm not even going into warlocks or hunters..

Now gonna stop, typing so much on phone isnt that fun lols


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[Achmed]

he's probably the oldest 29 twink here with 100% of that played on rogue

thats mad awkward kev

Why is that awkard mate? What's wrong with actual love for a single class in PVP no matter of nerfs/buffs, being fotm/notfotm.

Just asking.


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[Iild]

Why is that awkard mate? What's wrong with actual love for a single class in PVP no matter of nerfs/buffs, being fotm/notfotm.

Just asking.


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i mean its awkward that kev said you've not played 29 rogue for long when that's all you've done

 

[Achmed]

Nvm then misunderstood, sorry.

One thing tho, stop trolling me, i'm not a top rogue


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[Bestworld]

Ok since you've provided a constructive post well written and full of decency, i'm gonna reply to you.

Now, every aspect you've covered there i'm aware of. This can be clearly seen on my youtube channel that contain alot of rogue footage from the start of F2P few years ago upto endgame rogue pvp.

Again, you've got the wrong idea. I didn't say rogue has no tools, i said everything is very situational and you can't actually win games by yourself when most of your team is shit because... reasons stated above. This i've managed to do back in the day, this class allowed me, had the necessary tools and also the required pressure.

This expac i havent played rogue at 29 indeed even tho i have like 3 of them (oldschool ones like the above poster said). I've played only lvl20 tried all specs and settled to the former combat because it seemed the most decent between the 3 of them.

Now at 29 things change a bit indeed, cuz sub becomes acually viable. Thing is, even so, for me, the rogue in the current state at 20-29 at least, isn't what it used to be and old rogue players can support that.

You could do so much more in a short period of time back in a day that could lead to winning. And i tell u that because i was a teamplayer that didn't like to lose bg's at all.

Now, even if i havent played 29 this expac, i've seen so many lvl29 rogues in my bg's and they havent managed to actually strive the way you're describing the 29 rogue. They were as squishy as me, as fucked up when about to stay on target as me, etc, no actual WOW factor.

Now, don't tell me they were all shit. Really? Then where do all the 29 rogue gods hide?

My point is, compared to other classes, rogue today feels empty...

Take for example warrs, paladins, i'm not even going into warlocks or hunters..

Now gonna stop, typing so much on phone isnt that fun lols


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Yeah, I know that rogues have been doing a lot better in earlier expansions, but you still have an impact on games. No, you can't necessarily solo carry 100%, you're not a balance druid. But that goes for a lot of other classes as well. Point is, rogue is still in a good state looking at the current state of the game. Comparing rogue to its former self is like comparing mage to when it had block (healed with glyph), blazing speed, 2 blinks (glyph), CS, (pet nova if frost) etc. Mages were gods, but it doesn't mean they are bad now either. Same goes for rogue. They lost a lot, but their toolset is still really strong, comparing classes, and again, the overall state of the game. Fotm classes and specs come and go, and level 29 rogue still remain high tier in the 29 bracket. Level 20 rogue however, yes, that's completely dogshit.