39 BiS Standards (All Classes) Updated for Phase 5!

[Nicozy]

holy pally talents? severe lack of ally heals on Ashkandi wsg's....getting ripped by hordies. ggs though

I play 18/12, never have issue healing thru dmg , its all about providing utility with freedoms n bops and improving my mp5.
https://classic.wowhead.com/talent-calc/paladin/0550310202-05023101 but u can place points where u like, I think going without guardians favor is silly tho.

 

[Outofspace]

Def a good build also, I wouldn't say it's silly to go pure Holy for the extremely good synergy offered by mid and late tier talents, but Gaurdian's Favor is pretty amazing. Kings is the other bonus you get for dipping into Prot but I wouldn't take Imp Wisdom at the same time, just focus on one blessing.

 

[Nicozy]

Def a good build also, I wouldn't say it's silly to go pure Holy for the extremely good synergy offered by mid and late tier talents, but Gaurdian's Favor is pretty amazing. Kings is the other bonus you get for dipping into Prot but I wouldn't take Imp Wisdom at the same time, just focus on one blessing.

Don't think you can get enough spell crit for the synergy to warrant putting that many points into it while losing out on all the prot goodies. Divine favor is nice for sure tho.

You get kings for others and yourself when u need to fc( a lot of games unless ur team has druid, prot talents also help with that) And imp wisdom is a must have from my experience in games, will be one of the spells u spam the most. You will go oom no matter what in games so having mp5 is much needed, you will be using wisdom 95% of times so might as well make it better. Your entire hpala build is focused on max healing pieces so u can spam flash of light rank 1 for 35 mana.

 

[Outofspace]

Yeah I hear ya, and agree Rank 1 Flash is what it's all about. I've played both setups and liked both, thanks for your take on things.

 

[Medan]

Thank you. Thought so. What about the enchants question?

Lifestealing MH, 15agi/weapon chain offhand.

https://rogerkarlsson.com/blogs/wow/crusader/
https://rogerkarlsson.com/blogs/wow/lifestealing/
^-Those are on the low side of acceptable hits IMO, but still some research.

https://wowwiki.fandom.com/wiki/Enchant_Weapon_-_Lifestealing
https://wowwiki.fandom.com/wiki/Crusader
https://wowwiki.fandom.com/wiki/Enchant_Weapon_-_Fiery_Weapon

LS has 6PPM , Crusader 1PPM (actually thought it was 2)
LS Deals 30 and heals for 30 (shielded target=no heal), can miss and be resisted.
Crusader gives 100 AP (for rogues) and average 100 health

In a more.. visual way, what does 100 ap really give us: I removed 99 AP from my gear and my Hand of Righteousness lost 19 low end and 19 high end damage (so your average hemo gains 19 damage BEFORE armor is calculated) 100 AP is about 7.1 dps mainhand (you also get some from offhand)

If I could start a fight with Crusader proc for 15 sec I might chose that over the 180+180 from lifestealing, but its hard to get full value out of crusader, a new C proc only refresh buff (they dont stack up).

(With LS at 6PPM and Crusader at 1PPM) As a rogue I prefer to deal 30x6=180 dmg and heal for 30x6=180 instead of getting 100 AP for 15 sec and heal for average 100. Id still use LS instead of Crusader even if Crusader had 2PPM.

Pick what you prefer.
Fiery has 6PPM, and does 40 damage (this is the highest damage enchant for rogues, but does not heal. If you are a AP and crit heavy rogue, by your own logic you should go fiery)

 

[poppabear]

best MM hunter spec? been having fun as surv, but thinking more pewpew dps with MM.

 

[Outofspace]

Very straightforward 27 in MM will get it done (3 in SV for Humanoid Slaying which beats Ranged Spec), although I really don't think you're going to like it as much. Specially without trap talents your impact on the BG will go from huge utility and DPS to just DPS (but with less hit chance), and if the enemy decides to focus you... It'll be nap time.
[doublepost=1577825694,1577822746][/doublepost]

Lifestealing MH, 15agi/weapon chain offhand.

https://rogerkarlsson.com/blogs/wow/crusader/
https://rogerkarlsson.com/blogs/wow/lifestealing/
^-Those are on the low side of acceptable hits IMO, but still some research.

https://wowwiki.fandom.com/wiki/Enchant_Weapon_-_Lifestealing
https://wowwiki.fandom.com/wiki/Crusader
https://wowwiki.fandom.com/wiki/Enchant_Weapon_-_Fiery_Weapon

LS has 6PPM , Crusader 1PPM (actually thought it was 2)
LS Deals 30 and heals for 30 (shielded target=no heal), can miss and be resisted.
Crusader gives 100 AP (for rogues) and average 100 health

In a more.. visual way, what does 100 ap really give us: I removed 99 AP from my gear and my Hand of Righteousness lost 19 low end and 19 high end damage (so your average hemo gains 19 damage BEFORE armor is calculated) 100 AP is about 7.1 dps mainhand (you also get some from offhand)

If I could start a fight with Crusader proc for 15 sec I might chose that over the 180+180 from lifestealing, but its hard to get full value out of crusader, a new C proc only refresh buff (they dont stack up).

(With LS at 6PPM and Crusader at 1PPM) As a rogue I prefer to deal 30x6=180 dmg and heal for 30x6=180 instead of getting 100 AP for 15 sec and heal for average 100. Id still use LS instead of Crusader even if Crusader had 2PPM.

Pick what you prefer.
Fiery has 6PPM, and does 40 damage (this is the highest damage enchant for rogues, but does not heal. If you are a AP and crit heavy rogue, by your own logic you should go fiery)

Thanks for the in depth analysis of auto-attacks and procs. I don't agree with your conclusion, but it's good to have the numbers compiled in one place. PvP has many factors influencing the usefulness of each enchant which aren't really covered with an X vs Y damage/healing over time comparison.

For me, little pings from LS throughout a fight are basically insignificant - even at level 19, whereas Crusader supplies a palpable steroid which I can actually react to and leverage strategically. When every strike for 15s has a damage boost you can pop cooldowns or finishers or a Thistle Tea to maximize your burst window, and burst is king in PvP.

Also of note, only Crusader receives weird nerfs in retail based on character level, which suggests to me that it outperforms most options.

 

[Outofspace]

So I've updated the OP to include talents... I'm hoping experts can chime in on anything they find out of place because I don't have first hand experience with every spec for every class. I'm also up for adding any other builds people think are noteworthy, the more the merrier - I just did a spread of what I think are the strongest and some bonus ones that people have asked about.

 

[Riddle]

Thank you for the list! Thinking about trying out twink pvp again. Its been probably 10 years since I last played with some of you.

-Riddle

 

[Androlleck]

Thank you for the list! Thinking about trying out twink pvp again. Its been probably 10 years since I last played with some of you.

-Riddle

Sounds Awesome! would love to have you on Skeram alliance if you're ever interested in playing priest again.

 

[Hauntz]

I have to say with the warlock spec I dissaprove of 5/5 fel concentration. Warlock is 100% a utility and kiting class. without improved CoE you have nothing to slow your enemies with. Personally I go 3/4 improved CoE and 2/5 fel concentration. If you're taking pushback while channeling drainlife its spammable anyways, having the ability to peel for yourself and get the melee off of you is much more important. Just from my perspective though, great thread btw!

 

[poppabear]

I have to say with the warlock spec I dissaprove of 5/5 fel concentration. Warlock is 100% a utility and kiting class. without improved CoE you have nothing to slow your enemies with. Personally I go 3/4 improved CoE and 2/5 fel concentration. If you're taking pushback while channeling drainlife its spammable anyways, having the ability to peel for yourself and get the melee off of you is much more important. Just from my perspective though, great thread btw!

if youre the 39 horde twink "haunts" i approve....that lock is a beast to play vs. ggs

 

[Hauntz]

if youre the 39 horde twink "haunts" i approve....that lock is a beast to play vs. ggs

Haha thankyou man the bois and I on incendius are up and coming, we still have people trying to level their twinks and get full Bis. You'l be seeing more of us and the 5man's coming here very soon oh btw it's Hauntz*

 

[poppabear]

Haha thankyou man the bois and I on incendius are up and coming, we still have people trying to level their twinks and get full Bis. You'l be seeing more of us and the 5man's coming here very soon oh btw it's Hauntz*

yeah, you and another lock were eating my lunch the other day, poppapally/popshunter. Trying to build a group on Ashkandi, but is slow going, bunch of irl guys and girls i know just now getting to mid 30s and I have to still teach them positioning/strategy etc. Fun times though, will be nice when we can vs yall with full twinks both sides! see ya in game!

 

[Outofspace]

I have to say with the warlock spec I dissaprove of 5/5 fel concentration. Warlock is 100% a utility and kiting class. without improved CoE you have nothing to slow your enemies with. Personally I go 3/4 improved CoE and 2/5 fel concentration. If you're taking pushback while channeling drainlife its spammable anyways, having the ability to peel for yourself and get the melee off of you is much more important. Just from my perspective though, great thread btw!

Very true. I have been waiting for someone to speak up about CoE talents. I updated that spec, thanks!

 

[Lrh]

Mage Gear - Fire / Talents - Fire
Mage Gear - Frost Utility / Talents - Frost

Fire/Frost mage sets looks good, just make sure all eagle and of fiery/frozen wrath are the level 39 versions, slightly better.

For fire talents, take away Fire power and put 3 into elemental precision and incinerate. Resists can be killer and crits can swing a fight. https://classic.wowhead.com/talent-calc/mage/--050532301020513

For frost talents, take out frost warding and frost channeling and put into Ice Shards. Take 5 out of winter's chill and put into Imp Cone of Cold and Frostbite. Shatter combo is huge utility, imp cone of cold amplifies that and frostbite proc stops enemies in their tracks. https://classic.wowhead.com/talent-calc/mage/--050532301020513

I appreciate you putting this together. It is thorough.

 

[Osop]

Fire/Frost mage sets looks good, just make sure all eagle and of fiery/frozen wrath are the level 39 versions, slightly better.

I appreciate you putting this together. It is thorough.

you seem to know your stuff.
do you suggest sixtyupgrades or wowhead for gear planning?

 

[Lrh]

you seem to know your stuff.
do you suggest sixtyupgrades or wowhead for gear planning?

Either works. I use Wowhead more because I am on the site. Sixtyupgrades is good.

 

[Outofspace]

Fire/Frost mage sets looks good, just make sure all eagle and of fiery/frozen wrath are the level 39 versions, slightly better.

For fire talents, take away Fire power and put 3 into elemental precision and incinerate. Resists can be killer and crits can swing a fight. https://classic.wowhead.com/talent-calc/mage/--050532301020513

For frost talents, take out frost warding and frost channeling and put into Ice Shards. Take 5 out of winter's chill and put into Imp Cone of Cold and Frostbite. Shatter combo is huge utility, imp cone of cold amplifies that and frostbite proc stops enemies in their tracks. https://classic.wowhead.com/talent-calc/mage/--050532301020513

I appreciate you putting this together. It is thorough.

Good points, that original Frost spec was actually a mistake looking at it, I had meant to max Frostbite ofc, and must be how I had extra points to toss into warding. This is my adjustment taking your feedback into account.

I can't agree with CoC points over Ice Shards (the trade in my build) and I think it's ok to go two in Precision, but can understand wanting to go over the cap.

Concerning Fire, I can definitely see going with the +hit and Incinerate over 10% Fire dmg, but the Ele Precision doesn't bother me as much on Fire, and it doesn't help the main thing I want to land - Sheep. Meanwhile 10% more fire damage is extremely well leveraged when you're gearing the way you do as Fire.

Thank you muchly for your input! Great feedback.

 

[Lrh]

Good points, that original Frost spec was actually a mistake looking at it, I had meant to max Frostbite ofc, and must be how I had extra points to toss into warding. This is my adjustment taking your feedback into account.

I can't agree with CoC points over Ice Shards (the trade in my build) and I think it's ok to go two in Precision, but can understand wanting to go over the cap.

Concerning Fire, I can definitely see going with the +hit and Incinerate over 10% Fire dmg, but the Ele Precision doesn't bother me as much on Fire, and it doesn't help the main thing I want to land - Sheep. Meanwhile 10% more fire damage is extremely well leveraged when you're gearing the way you do as Fire.

Thank you muchly for your input! Great feedback.

I put points in ice shards and imp CoC (max shatter damage). I like dropping a point into elemental precision and putting into permafrost as well. My link seems different from yesterday.

Great point about fire damage, I see what you are saying. I think it can go either way. A resist on a fire spell would negate any damage benefit that would be applied from the fire power points, I see why someone would go with firepower then. To negate that you can rotate your points into arcane tree for arcane resist.

It looks like my builds were changed from last night.https://classic.wowhead.com/talent-calc/mage/02-05523201230031-001 Is an adjusted fire build to account for arcane hit.

In depth response you legend. Much appreciated.