19 fury warrior gear thread

necroaqua

necroaqua

Grandfathered
Cause throwing shade and random armories via status is surprisingly not the best way to discuss gear. Whats your opinions on things below (and why)?
  • Verse vs Haste vs Crit
  • str vs secondaries (do you need necks/rings with str on them? Executioner sword offhand vs something with secondaries)(rough napkin math says 1str is about the same damage as 2 verse as a place to start)(do you stack secondaries and rely on crusader?)
  • Movespeed (10% with boar speed vs 12% with minor speed and gift to cloak)
  • How important is weapon damage? Emil's Brand (32) > BG Crate > Executioner > Heirloom/dungeon
  • Where should you be on the scale from glass cannon to tank? Which gear/chants should have stam?

Heres a base set of gear from the quick start guide.

Gear
Head: Master Engineer’s Goggles, Any
Neck: Heirloom
Shoulders: Heirloom
Back: Any
Chest: BG Crate, Any
Bracers: BG Crate, Any
Gloves: BoE, Any
Belt: Any
Legs: BoE, Heirloom
Boots: BG Crate, Any
Rings: Demon Band x2, BG Crate, Dungeon Satchel, Any
Trinkets: Returning/Defending Champion, Touch of the Void, Inherited Insignia, Any
Weapons: Executioner’s Sword, BG Crate, Any

Enchants - See here for specific enchants.
Neck: Mark of the Hidden Satyr
Shoulders: Any 2 str shoulder enchant
Back: Gift of X, Any +1 Str enchant, +3 Stam
Chest: Glorious Stats
Bracers: Any +3 Str enchant, stats
Gloves: Glove Reinforcements, Any +4 Str enchant
Legs: Angerhide Leg Armor
Boots: Minor Speed, Any hybrid 2stam+speed enchant
Rings: Any +1 Secondary enchants
Weapons: Crusader
Click to expand...


Discuss
@Enjoi @Chainz @THORIN
 
I’ll take a swing at your questions. I’ve played around a bit with gear on my warrior: https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/character/bleeding-hollow/Phyter

As someone who enjoys tanking dungeons as a twink, I’ve had lots of different gear to play around with. I used dummies and duels (some skilled, some not) mostly to check performance. I play objectives, so bgs were too situational for my outputs.

Verse is second only to strength when it comes to damage. I’m seeing just over 2 for strength to verse, so 2:1 is a good ratio to use. After verse, I’ve been balancing haste and crit based of which ever has the stat to add. Going haste heavy, I noticed a bit more rage buildup on fights over 20 seconds. This could be useful for beating on a healer, but not too great for a burst meta. 10-12% feels pretty good. Crit is 150% in bgs, so I wouldn’t stack it intentionally until after I hit the haste range.

I don’t have emil’s or a bg axe yet, but I’ve noticed my executioner outperforms the boE blues and BoAs. I do know that emil’s hits me like a train! With that said, 2x executioners is the current way to go until you get bgs to bless you. Crusader is beast mode, but you have to play as if it won’t happen. You need that strength to maintain dps during non-crusader phases.

I went with the strength enchant on my cloak. I don’t notice the 2% speed buff, considering warriors mobility, and strength>verse. That said, I do rotate which cloak I use, lambent when I have a good healer vs heirloom when I don’t. I went with 2x Demon Bands and noticed a difference over the secondary only dungeon rings immediately. It was huge. As far as other enchants, strength all the way for me!
 
Deumadora said:
I’ll take a swing at your questions. I’ve played around a bit with gear on my warrior: https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/character/bleeding-hollow/Phyter

As someone who enjoys tanking dungeons as a twink, I’ve had lots of different gear to play around with. I used dummies and duels (some skilled, some not) mostly to check performance. I play objectives, so bgs were too situational for my outputs.

Verse is second only to strength when it comes to damage. I’m seeing just over 2 for strength to verse, so 2:1 is a good ratio to use. After verse, I’ve been balancing haste and crit based of which ever has the stat to add. Going haste heavy, I noticed a bit more rage buildup on fights over 20 seconds. This could be useful for beating on a healer, but not too great for a burst meta. 10-12% feels pretty good. Crit is 150% in bgs, so I wouldn’t stack it intentionally until after I hit the haste range.

I don’t have emil’s or a bg axe yet, but I’ve noticed my executioner outperforms the boE blues and BoAs. I do know that emil’s hits me like a train! With that said, 2x executioners is the current way to go until you get bgs to bless you. Crusader is beast mode, but you have to play as if it won’t happen. You need that strength to maintain dps during non-crusader phases.

I went with the strength enchant on my cloak. I don’t notice the 2% speed buff, considering warriors mobility, and strength>verse. That said, I do rotate which cloak I use, lambent when I have a good healer vs heirloom when I don’t. I went with 2x Demon Bands and noticed a difference over the secondary only dungeon rings immediately. It was huge. As far as other enchants, strength all the way for me!
Click to expand...
Where did your information that crit is 150% in BGs come from?
 
I don’t think anyone was throwing “shade”, as far as I know, @Chainz and I are cool as hell. People can banter and not dislike each other lol.

In response to the thread, @THORIN asked for BiS, I gave him an armory link to a route he could take that isn’t cookie cutter strength stacking.

  • I prefer to haste stack specifically for Fury. Followed by Crit and then Vers. This may be different for others as we may have different play styles.
- I tend to play mid aggressively, my play style is in your face and right up front.. I leap in without a care and smack shit hard. With this comes the reason I prefer haste and Crit over vers.. the haste gives my slow weapons a bit of a reasonable kick to land hits on my target more quickly, more hits per minute is more DMG done. Since warriors are pretty limited at 19 and general fights in this bracket don’t last longer than a minute.. I like being able to hit more frequently in that allotted time constraint as it also allows for quicker rage gains to keep hits coming on certain classes instead of staying stagnant with auto attacks. This creates massive pressure in mid fights as I’m able to keep abilities flowing.
- I like the Crit because it allows for more big severe hits that sometimes cause fatal blows with the big plays. Vs having the vers stack to do a few more points of DMG per main ability.

- I like elemental force on with black malice because of the obvious insane proc rate and with black malice, the effect proc on the weapon allows for elemental force to proc more often giving my warrior more bursty DMG. I toss crusader on the executioner.

  • Movement speed and mobility is something warriors just don’t have.. especially even more so at 19. I’ll gladly take the extra 2% speed increase over a literal 1 more DMG on my main abilities from the strength. The 2 stam isn’t going to be significant either over extra mobility. Anything I can have an edge on for movement, I’m all for. If I’m theory crafting with a full glass cannon strength build, I’d go the 2 extra strength. This all my personal preference, this may be different for others.

  • Weapon damage is crucial just like with any other melee class it can be deciding factor in a win or lose. If you’re alliance and have Emil’s brand then I’d rock that all day. But executioners/BG and some scaled 19’s boe’s are great and do the job.

  • Enchants are personal preference to your play style and what you’d prefer. Are you trying to go hybrid and with some survivability in your step? Then definitely toss some stam chants on, my ideal spot(s) would be bracers/boots to not sacrifice the strength you can get from a gloves/hand enchant. In a perfect world you’d want to stick with pure DMG out put and not really try and dedicate anything to stam as you should already be 1400++HP easy off the bat.

Again, this is solely opinionated to my personal desires while playing.
 
Opek2 said:
Where did your information that crit is 150% in BGs come from?
Click to expand...

Its been that way for a couple of xpacs now. I know it was re-verified in the BfA pre-patch. Should be pretty easy to verify personally by going into a BG with recount/skada and recording the session. See what various things are hitting/critting for. Elemental force is an easy one to look at since its only verse, which generally stays static. Looking at bloodthirst for example can give some interesting results depending on whether or not you have 0, 1, or 2 crusader procs.
[doublepost=1536089733,1536089655][/doublepost]
Deumadora said:
I’ll take a swing at your questions. I’ve played around a bit with gear on my warrior: https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/character/bleeding-hollow/Phyter

As someone who enjoys tanking dungeons as a twink, I’ve had lots of different gear to play around with. I used dummies and duels (some skilled, some not) mostly to check performance. I play objectives, so bgs were too situational for my outputs.

Verse is second only to strength when it comes to damage. I’m seeing just over 2 for strength to verse, so 2:1 is a good ratio to use. After verse, I’ve been balancing haste and crit based of which ever has the stat to add. Going haste heavy, I noticed a bit more rage buildup on fights over 20 seconds. This could be useful for beating on a healer, but not too great for a burst meta. 10-12% feels pretty good. Crit is 150% in bgs, so I wouldn’t stack it intentionally until after I hit the haste range.

I don’t have emil’s or a bg axe yet, but I’ve noticed my executioner outperforms the boE blues and BoAs. I do know that emil’s hits me like a train! With that said, 2x executioners is the current way to go until you get bgs to bless you. Crusader is beast mode, but you have to play as if it won’t happen. You need that strength to maintain dps during non-crusader phases.

I went with the strength enchant on my cloak. I don’t notice the 2% speed buff, considering warriors mobility, and strength>verse. That said, I do rotate which cloak I use, lambent when I have a good healer vs heirloom when I don’t. I went with 2x Demon Bands and noticed a difference over the secondary only dungeon rings immediately. It was huge. As far as other enchants, strength all the way for me!
Click to expand...

Good stuff. I'll note that Emil's (ilvl 32) is grandfathered, so if you don't have it - BG crate is the highest you can go.
 
Enjoi said:
I don’t think anyone was throwing “shade”, as far as I know, @Chainz and I are cool as hell. People can banter and not dislike each other lol.

In response to the thread, @THORIN asked for BiS, I gave him an armory link to a route he could take that isn’t cookie cutter strength stacking.

  • I prefer to haste stack specifically for Fury. Followed by Crit and then Vers. This may be different for others as we may have different play styles.
- I tend to play mid aggressively, my play style is in your face and right up front.. I leap in without a care and smack shit hard. With this comes the reason I prefer haste and Crit over vers.. the haste gives my slow weapons a bit of a reasonable kick to land hits on my target more quickly, more hits per minute is more DMG done. Since warriors are pretty limited at 19 and general fights in this bracket don’t last longer than a minute.. I like being able to hit more frequently in that allotted time constraint as it also allows for quicker rage gains to keep hits coming on certain classes instead of staying stagnant with auto attacks. This creates massive pressure in mid fights as I’m able to keep abilities flowing.
- I like the Crit because it allows for more big severe hits that sometimes cause fatal blows with the big plays. Vs having the vers stack to do a few more points of DMG per main ability.

- I like elemental force on with black malice because of the obvious insane proc rate and with black malice, the effect proc on the weapon allows for elemental force to proc more often giving my warrior more bursty DMG. I toss crusader on the executioner.

  • Movement speed and mobility is something warriors just don’t have.. especially even more so at 19. I’ll gladly take the extra 2% speed increase over a literal 1 more DMG on my main abilities from the strength. The 2 stam isn’t going to be significant either over extra mobility. Anything I can have an edge on for movement, I’m all for. If I’m theory crafting with a full glass cannon strength build, I’d go the 2 extra strength. This all my personal preference, this may be different for others.

  • Weapon damage is crucial just like with any other melee class it can be deciding factor in a win or lose. If you’re alliance then Emil’s brand all day, unless you’re up for faction changing If horde to get it. But executioners/BG and some scaled 19’s boe’s are great and do the job.

  • Enchants are personal preference to your play style and what you’d prefer. Are you trying to go hybrid and with some survivability in your step? Then definitely toss some stam chants on, my ideal spot(s) would be bracers/boots to not sacrifice the strength you can get from a gloves/hand enchant. In a perfect world you’d want to stick with pure DMG out put and not really try and dedicate anything to stam as you should already be 1400++HP easy off the bat.

Again, this is solely opinionated to my personal desires while playing.
Click to expand...
Look I'm not gonna sit here and act like I'm a warrior expert, but the guy asked for a "BiS" fury warr armory and I know just enough about warrs to know your char isn't "BiS". If it's fine for your playstyle then go for it I guess.
 
Enjoi said:
I don’t think anyone was throwing “shade”, as far as I know, @Chainz and I are cool as hell. People can banter and not dislike each other lol.

In response to the thread, @THORIN asked for BiS, I gave him an armory link to a route he could take that isn’t cookie cutter strength stacking.

  • I prefer to haste stack specifically for Fury. Followed by Crit and then Vers. This may be different for others as we may have different play styles.
- I tend to play mid aggressively, my play style is in your face and right up front.. I leap in without a care and smack shit hard. With this comes the reason I prefer haste and Crit over vers.. the haste gives my slow weapons a bit of a reasonable kick to land hits on my target more quickly, more hits per minute is more DMG done. Since warriors are pretty limited at 19 and general fights in this bracket don’t last longer than a minute.. I like being able to hit more frequently in that allotted time constraint as it also allows for quicker rage gains to keep hits coming on certain classes instead of staying stagnant with auto attacks. This creates massive pressure in mid fights as I’m able to keep abilities flowing.
- I like the Crit because it allows for more big severe hits that sometimes cause fatal blows with the big plays. Vs having the vers stack to do a few more points of DMG per main ability.

- I like elemental force on with black malice because of the obvious insane proc rate and with black malice, the effect proc on the weapon allows for elemental force to proc more often giving my warrior more bursty DMG. I toss crusader on the executioner.

  • Movement speed and mobility is something warriors just don’t have.. especially even more so at 19. I’ll gladly take the extra 2% speed increase over a literal 1 more DMG on my main abilities from the strength. The 2 stam isn’t going to be significant either over extra mobility. Anything I can have an edge on for movement, I’m all for. If I’m theory crafting with a full glass cannon strength build, I’d go the 2 extra strength. This all my personal preference, this may be different for others.

  • Weapon damage is crucial just like with any other melee class it can be deciding factor in a win or lose. If you’re alliance then Emil’s brand all day, unless you’re up for faction changing If horde to get it. But executioners/BG and some scaled 19’s boe’s are great and do the job.

  • Enchants are personal preference to your play style and what you’d prefer. Are you trying to go hybrid and with some survivability in your step? Then definitely toss some stam chants on, my ideal spot(s) would be bracers/boots to not sacrifice the strength you can get from a gloves/hand enchant. In a perfect world you’d want to stick with pure DMG out put and not really try and dedicate anything to stam as you should already be 1400++HP easy off the bat.

Again, this is solely opinionated to my personal desires while playing.
Click to expand...


Throwing light shade definitely falls under friendly banter - not accusing you guys of toxic hate or anything. Just pointing out its hard to really have a nuanced discussion over status. And that its probably somewhat hard for a new player looking for BiS to understand when thrown 4 different armories with little explanation of what goes into those builds.

I haven't tried a full haste build yet, but theres been a few people who build full haste over verse/crit and really like it. Though the same can be said for those going full crit.

Elemental Force is always an option for one weapon (or with weapon-swapping, though its somewhat hard to track with dual wielding). However the way RPPM works, the black malice proc won't get you any additional elemental force procs - it might make the first or second proc come slightly sooner at the cost of lowering the chance of later procs. Its somewhat unintuitive - but more events that can proc elemental force, do not actually change the actual procs per minute. Though I'll note that haste does increase the procs per min.

And RIP GF'd Emils.
[doublepost=1536090566,1536090180][/doublepost]
Enjoi said:
https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/character/dalaran/Kekekekekek
Click to expand...

Looking at specific things from your armory:

  • You've already mentioned testing double truesilver for the haste. With executioner's sword and (scaled) black malice as your usual weapons.
  • Neck - Is your neck part of the haste test? Do you normally use an heirloom that has str on it?
  • Same question for the lavishly jeweled ring instead of demon band or BG crate ring or shipyard heirloom ring.
  • Trinkets - do you normally run with double haste? Or mix it up with insignia (2 min CD instead of the usual 3, and 7 stam) or one of the other stam/verse options?
  • Shoulders. Dungeon shoulders vs BoAs with a 2str/1crit enchant?
 
necroaqua said:
Looking at specific things from your armory:

  • You've already mentioned testing double truesilver for the haste. With executioner's sword and (scaled) black malice as your usual weapons.
  • Neck - Is your neck part of the haste test? Do you normally use an heirloom that has str on it?
  • Same question for the lavishly jeweled ring instead of demon band or BG crate ring or shipyard heirloom ring.
  • Trinkets - do you normally run with double haste? Or mix it up with insignia (2 min CD instead of the usual 3, and 7 stam) or one of the other stam/verse options?
  • Shoulders. Dungeon shoulders vs BoAs with a 2str/1crit enchant?
Click to expand...

Pretty much everything you mentioned I have as another set. I have 3 different sets I play with with tons of variants. This was a stacking haste as much as I could play around.
Aside from demon bands, have yet to snag any on my server and haven’t xfer’d the ones I have from another yet.
 
Enjoi said:
Pretty much everything you mentioned I have as another set. I have 3 different sets I play with with tons of variants. This was a stacking haste as much as I could play around.
Aside from demon bands, have yet to snag any on my server and haven’t xfer’d the ones I have from another yet.
Click to expand...

Mind laying out those sets? Really interested to see what people are trying out.
 
necroaqua said:
Its been that way for a couple of xpacs now. I know it was re-verified in the BfA pre-patch. Should be pretty easy to verify personally by going into a BG with recount/skada and recording the session. See what various things are hitting/critting for. Elemental force is an easy one to look at since its only verse, which generally stays static. Looking at bloodthirst for example can give some interesting results depending on whether or not you have 0, 1, or 2 crusader procs.
[doublepost=1536089733,1536089655][/doublepost]

Good stuff. I'll note that Emil's (ilvl 32) is grandfathered, so if you don't have it - BG crate is the highest you can go.
Click to expand...
Is the crit that way for all classes or only warrior? I maind a 60 war in legion and didn’t notice any abnormal crit chances
 
Opek2 said:
Is the crit that way for all classes or only warrior? I maind a 60 war in legion and didn’t notice any abnormal crit chances
Click to expand...

Everything. Implemented in WoD. The 6.0.2 patchnotes have "Critical Damage and Critical Heals in PvP combat now deal 150% of the normal spell/ability effects (down from 200%)."

Basically in PvP, crits do 150% damage, while in PvE they do 200% damage. Its still bursty and is important for people who need to do burst damage. Its just not as much damage. It means that your secondaries are a choice rather than every class and spec go 100% crit.
 
necroaqua said:
Everything. Implemented in WoD. The 6.0.2 patchnotes have "Critical Damage and Critical Heals in PvP combat now deal 150% of the normal spell/ability effects (down from 200%)."

Basically in PvP, crits do 150% damage, while in PvE they do 200% damage. Its still bursty and is important for people who need to do burst damage. Its just not as much damage. It means that your secondaries are a choice rather than every class and spec go 100% crit.
Click to expand...
I was under the impression that he meant 150% crit chance, DMG makes a lot more sense. Thanks for clearing that up
 
Enjoi said:
I don’t think anyone was throwing “shade”, as far as I know, @Chainz and I are cool as hell. People can banter and not dislike each other lol.

In response to the thread, @THORIN asked for BiS, I gave him an armory link to a route he could take that isn’t cookie cutter strength stacking.

  • I prefer to haste stack specifically for Fury. Followed by Crit and then Vers. This may be different for others as we may have different play styles.
- I tend to play mid aggressively, my play style is in your face and right up front.. I leap in without a care and smack shit hard. With this comes the reason I prefer haste and Crit over vers.. the haste gives my slow weapons a bit of a reasonable kick to land hits on my target more quickly, more hits per minute is more DMG done. Since warriors are pretty limited at 19 and general fights in this bracket don’t last longer than a minute.. I like being able to hit more frequently in that allotted time constraint as it also allows for quicker rage gains to keep hits coming on certain classes instead of staying stagnant with auto attacks. This creates massive pressure in mid fights as I’m able to keep abilities flowing.
- I like the Crit because it allows for more big severe hits that sometimes cause fatal blows with the big plays. Vs having the vers stack to do a few more points of DMG per main ability.

- I like elemental force on with black malice because of the obvious insane proc rate and with black malice, the effect proc on the weapon allows for elemental force to proc more often giving my warrior more bursty DMG. I toss crusader on the executioner.

  • Movement speed and mobility is something warriors just don’t have.. especially even more so at 19. I’ll gladly take the extra 2% speed increase over a literal 1 more DMG on my main abilities from the strength. The 2 stam isn’t going to be significant either over extra mobility. Anything I can have an edge on for movement, I’m all for. If I’m theory crafting with a full glass cannon strength build, I’d go the 2 extra strength. This all my personal preference, this may be different for others.

  • Weapon damage is crucial just like with any other melee class it can be deciding factor in a win or lose. If you’re alliance and have Emil’s brand then I’d rock that all day. But executioners/BG and some scaled 19’s boe’s are great and do the job.

  • Enchants are personal preference to your play style and what you’d prefer. Are you trying to go hybrid and with some survivability in your step? Then definitely toss some stam chants on, my ideal spot(s) would be bracers/boots to not sacrifice the strength you can get from a gloves/hand enchant. In a perfect world you’d want to stick with pure DMG out put and not really try and dedicate anything to stam as you should already be 1400++HP easy off the bat.

Again, this is solely opinionated to my personal desires while playing.
Click to expand...

A few comments and questions... how many more attacks are you getting in a 10 second window with being haste stacked? In a 20 second window? I very rarely have a fight go a solid minute. You don’t wanna play for the distance if we’re in a burst meta.

Unless you’re seeing more attacks in your typical fight length with haste %, how can you justify it over 1 verse %? 1% verse is literally equal to 1% more damage done and .5% less damage taken. 10% verse is an easy number to hit. That’s 10% more damage and 5% less damage taken. That’s pretty significant.

As a strength user, saying elemental force proccing once (maybe twice) per minute is more dps than 100 strength stacked on another 100 strength is just silly. Crusader procs str consistently and heals... nuff said on the matter...

If you think charge and leap aren’t huge mobility abilities, I’m not sure what to say. You could say warriors lack cc, but mobility isn’t much of an issue unless you’re comparing to druids or shamans.
 
Deumadora said:
A few comments and questions... how many more attacks are you getting in a 10 second window with being haste stacked? In a 20 second window? I very rarely have a fight go a solid minute. You don’t wanna play for the distance if we’re in a burst meta.

Unless you’re seeing more attacks in your typical fight length with haste %, how can you justify it over 1 verse %? 1% verse is literally equal to 1% more damage done and .5% less damage taken. 10% verse is an easy number to hit. That’s 10% more damage and 5% less damage taken. That’s pretty significant.

As a strength user, saying elemental force proccing once (maybe twice) per minute is more dps than 100 strength stacked on another 100 strength is just silly. Crusader procs str consistently and heals... nuff said on the matter...

If you think charge and leap aren’t huge mobility abilities, I’m not sure what to say. You could say warriors lack cc, but mobility isn’t much of an issue unless you’re comparing to druids or shamans.
Click to expand...
Crusader gives 33 str at 19, or at least it does at 20. Leap isn’t available at 19.
[doublepost=1536100894,1536100798][/doublepost]However I agree that stacking haste is pointless as a war considering all you need to do is charge and spam rampage, Str>Vers=crit>haste
[doublepost=1536100973][/doublepost]
Opek2 said:
Crusader gives 33 str at 19, or at least it does at 20. Leap isn’t available at 19.
[doublepost=1536100894,1536100798][/doublepost]However I agree that stacking haste is pointless as a war considering all you need to do is charge and spam rampage, Str>Vers=crit>haste
Click to expand...
I also agree that crusader is 100x better then EF even with the nerf/procs on top of wep procs
 
Deumadora said:
A few comments and questions... how many more attacks are you getting in a 10 second window with being haste stacked? In a 20 second window? I very rarely have a fight go a solid minute. You don’t wanna play for the distance if we’re in a burst meta.

Unless you’re seeing more attacks in your typical fight length with haste %, how can you justify it over 1 verse %? 1% verse is literally equal to 1% more damage done and .5% less damage taken. 10% verse is an easy number to hit. That’s 10% more damage and 5% less damage taken. That’s pretty significant.

As a strength user, saying elemental force proccing once (maybe twice) per minute is more dps than 100 strength stacked on another 100 strength is just silly. Crusader procs str consistently and heals... nuff said on the matter...

If you think charge and leap aren’t huge mobility abilities, I’m not sure what to say. You could say warriors lack cc, but mobility isn’t much of an issue unless you’re comparing to druids or shamans.
Click to expand...

I'll leave the questions on @Enjoi 's haste to him.

Elemental force has 10 RPPM. Its a significant and reliable damage boost as opposed to crusader's very random low chance but stupid amazing damage (3% IIRC?). I can definitely see crusader/elemental force or even double elemental force as viable. Advanced users can look into weapon swapping to elemental force once crusader procs, though its somewhat hard to manage with dual wielding.

And warriors do lack mobility at 19. You have Charge (20 sec CD) and maybe war machine 30% speed on kill. No leap. Nothing else really unless you're goblin for the racial - which is a long cooldown. No slow makes you VERY vulnerable to kiting. To the point where I've considered using icy or something to try and mitigate things.
[doublepost=1536102030,1536101459][/doublepost]
Opek2 said:
Crusader gives 33 str at 19, or at least it does at 20. Leap isn’t available at 19.
[doublepost=1536100894,1536100798][/doublepost]However I agree that stacking haste is pointless as a war considering all you need to do is charge and spam rampage, Str>Vers=crit>haste
[doublepost=1536100973][/doublepost]
I also agree that crusader is 100x better then EF even with the nerf/procs on top of wep procs
Click to expand...

Crusader gives 100 str at 19. I think it does at 20 as well. The tooltip for the actual enchant scroll may be wrong - but look at your char's str when it procs.


As for haste, theres definitely some synergy there with war machine. More haste means more autos, and you generate extra rage from autos. More rage means more rampage. It also means more events for crusader to proc from (crusader is NOT rppm, but a straight up %). And when you have 100 str from crusader, the verse means very little. Rampage for me goes from 309-> 480 -> 652 with crusader procs. Thats with 8% verse, so you could drop some verse for haste/crit and rely on crusader for the raw power.

All that being said - I don't know that haste is the right stat to stack. But if you're arguing for a stat priority, you need some more logic/proof behind it than "all you need to do is charge and spam rampage" to get str > verse = crit > haste.
 
necroaqua said:
I'll leave the questions on @Enjoi 's haste to him.

Elemental force has 10 RPPM. Its a significant and reliable damage boost as opposed to crusader's very random low chance but stupid amazing damage (3% IIRC?). I can definitely see crusader/elemental force or even double elemental force as viable. Advanced users can look into weapon swapping to elemental force once crusader procs, though its somewhat hard to manage with dual wielding.

And warriors do lack mobility at 19. You have Charge (20 sec CD) and maybe war machine 30% speed on kill. No leap. Nothing else really unless you're goblin for the racial - which is a long cooldown. No slow makes you VERY vulnerable to kiting. To the point where I've considered using icy or something to try and mitigate things.
[doublepost=1536102030,1536101459][/doublepost]

Crusader gives 100 str at 19. I think it does at 20 as well. The tooltip for the actual enchant scroll may be wrong - but look at your char's str when it procs.


As for haste, theres definitely some synergy there with war machine. More haste means more autos, and you generate extra rage from autos. More rage means more rampage. It also means more events for crusader to proc from (crusader is NOT rppm, but a straight up %). And when you have 100 str from crusader, the verse means very little. Rampage for me goes from 309-> 480 -> 652 with crusader procs. Thats with 8% verse, so you could drop some verse for haste/crit and rely on crusader for the raw power.

All that being said - I don't know that haste is the right stat to stack. But if you're arguing for a stat priority, you need some more logic/proof behind it than "all you need to do is charge and spam rampage" to get str > verse = crit > haste.
Click to expand...
This was a very good response! Thank you for the information to back your ideas.
I have a habit of forgetting that my 60 has leap, not my 19. Fortunately, lots of classes lack mobility. The point on CC is just as I was saying too. They have 0 at 19. I believe that is more the issue.
I don’t think you can stack enough haste at 19 to make a considerable difference in your dps in a shorter fight, but maybe I’m being stubborn. Let me step back for a second...
So, with haste, it increases attack speed, rage gain, and weapon procs... but at what percent do you need to be at to see these things noticeably? Would it be considerably higher than 10% to see it start to come to fruition? Is anyone doing any testing other than the typical “because I smash in bgs with my gear” testing?
 
Deumadora said:
This was a very good response! Thank you for the information to back your ideas.
I have a habit of forgetting that my 60 has leap, not my 19. Fortunately, lots of classes lack mobility. The point on CC is just as I was saying too. They have 0 at 19. I believe that is more the issue.
I don’t think you can stack enough haste at 19 to make a considerable difference in your dps in a shorter fight, but maybe I’m being stubborn. Let me step back for a second...
So, with haste, it increases attack speed, rage gain, and weapon procs... but at what percent do you need to be at to see these things noticeably? Would it be considerably higher than 10% to see it start to come to fruition? Is anyone doing any testing other than the typical “because I smash in bgs with my gear” testing?
Click to expand...

Good question. The way haste works with autos is that your attack speed is original speed / 1 + haste. So for fury warrior, we have a 3.6 weapon and I switched a few pieces to get 15% haste pretty easily (could def go higher easily). So that gives 3.6/1.15 for an actual attack speed of 3.13. So thats already significant. In a 10 second fight, you get an extra white attack with each hand (and the extra rage that comes with it). Your GCD goes down from 1.5s to 1.3s.

Enrage increases your haste by 25%, but thats multiplicatively, which puts you at ~44% haste with the 15% base. So thats really fun with 3.6/1.44 = 2.5 attack speed. So now you're attack faster than a rogue....but with 2handers. So from a pure numbers standpoint, its looking pretty good. But lets throw in a typical scenario.

Scenario. You charge (20 range) an opponent. Bloodthirst on hit (8 rage) which has 30% chance to proc enrage. Your first 2 auto attacks bring you up to about 35 rage (from me doing this to a ?? target dummy). So in an instant, you're at 35 rage and enraged for 10% extra damage and 44% haste. I dunno exactly how rage gen from autos work, but between autos and another bloodthirst you should be pretty close to having rampage (which enrages you). Add in a crusader proc, and your basically a rogue with...3 times the damage?

Now, that assumes you get the procs. And theres definitely a bunch of dry spells as a warrior where you're gasping for rage or enrage or crusader or anything. Haste will help with that. I'm actually rethinking war marchine in favor of Fresh meat. 45% chance for bloodthirst to enrage is pretty good when you're looking at 10% damage and 44% haste.


The downside of all this is that its hard to compare to a verse/crit build. Verse is going to be less proc reliant but you'll also be less scary with procs (see elemental force, which no one seems to like). Crit is another % chance for good burst.

Honestly I'm leaning towards trying a full haste build (or rather a haste > verse > crit) just because the amount of crit and verse hardly do anything when crusader procs, you're pretty powerful. Haste is going to be the best thing for when crusader is up. Haste also helps you get crusader and enrage up faster.

Also haste reduces the cooldown of some of your abilities. Bloodthirst after an enrage is down to 3.2s. I think the base is 4s? So lower cooldowns on bloodthirst/execute. Haste just keeps playing off of everything for warriors.
[doublepost=1536116841,1536115655][/doublepost]Side note - can someone with tuskar's vitality/boar's speed or any other hybrid enchant check their movespeed when enrage or war machine is up using dejacharstats? I don't think the hybrid boot enchants stack, but I don't remember.
 
Full haste is a trap, you can get to about 30% your hits are tiny... you do alot of them,but versus anybody that can heal its just worthless.

Full Crit at around 38% is the best simply because you can just randomly kill ANYBODY (I don't care about any bad resto goblins or dirty priests, they can randomly take 3k and explode, happens all the time). The rotation with no haste is just fine and you are never relying on white damage ever regardless.

Haste is a trap, its a cool trap, but a trap none the less.

NOTES:

Dueling as fury versus fury = for morons, since its just simply based on who gets the most crusader procs, so don't worry about dueling as a build for anything. And in a BG you never know who randomly has drinks that can just let them beat you. So don't ever base your fury/any warrior build on how you do versus another warrior 1v1, since its random for anybody. I've won (and lost) duels in 2 seconds, both crusaders proc, and you get 3 crits, fight is over in honestly 1-2 seconds... don't let that judge your skill level, it will only hamper your play.

AND ALSO REMEMBER most fury that you see that look good, are just pocket healed turds that can't/won't play without their heal buddy.

38% Critical Strike Build for maximum fun:
Polished Helm of Valor

Hematite Tortoise Pendant
Mark of the Hidden Satyr

Polished Spaulders of Valor
+3 Strength and +1 Critical Strike

Glowing Lizardscale Cloak
+1 Critical Strike & +2% Speed

Polished Breastplate of Valor
+7 All Stats

Gray Woolen Shirt

Rift Bracers
+4 Strength

Algae Fists
+6 Strength

Captain Nials' Belt

Polished Legplates of Valor
+2 Strength and +1 Critical Strike

Defiler's Plate Greaves
+3 Stamina and Minor Movement Speed

Beastbinder Ring
+2 Critical Strike

Lavishly Jeweled Ring
+2 Critical Strike

Touch of the Void

Flashing Steel Talisman

Bloodied Arcanite Reaper
Crusader

Bloodied Arcanite Reaper
Crusader

1) You will do more damage/have more kills if you play the warrior right regardless of your build as well. Charge/Heroic leap are for living, not for killing, you will do more the longer you are not at the graveyard, so keep your escapes for when it matters.

2) Free Action Potion = the best thing in a Fury Warriro's entire life.
 
Last edited:
Roadwarrior said:
Full haste is a trap, you can get to about 30% your hits are tiny... you do alot of them,but versus anybody that can heal its just worthless.

Full Crit at around 38% is the best simply because you can just randomly kill ANYBODY (I don't care about any bad resto goblins or dirty priests, they can randomly take 3k and explode, happens all the time). The rotation with no haste is just fine and you are never relying on white damage ever regardless.

Haste is a trap, its a cool trap, but a trap none the less.

NOTES:

Dueling as fury versus fury = for morons, since its just simply based on who gets the most crusader procs, so don't worry about dueling as a build for anything. And in a BG you never know who randomly has drinks that can just let them beat you. So don't ever base your fury/any warrior build on how you do versus another warrior 1v1, since its random for anybody. I've won (and lost) duels in 2 seconds, both crusaders proc, and you get 3 crits, fight is over in honestly 1-2 seconds... don't let that judge your skill level, it will only hamper your play.

AND ALSO REMEMBER most fury that you see that look good, are just pocket healed turds that can't/won't play without their heal buddy.

38% Critical Strike Build for maximum fun:
Polished Helm of Valor

Hematite Tortoise Pendant
Mark of the Hidden Satyr

Polished Spaulders of Valor
+3 Strength and +1 Critical Strike

Glowing Lizardscale Cloak
+1 Critical Strike & +2% Speed

Polished Breastplate of Valor
+7 All Stats

Gray Woolen Shirt

Rift Bracers
+4 Strength

Algae Fists
+6 Strength

Captain Nials' Belt

Polished Legplates of Valor
+2 Strength and +1 Critical Strike

Defiler's Plate Greaves
+3 Stamina and Minor Movement Speed

Beastbinder Ring
+2 Critical Strike

Lavishly Jeweled Ring
+2 Critical Strike

Touch of the Void

Flashing Steel Talisman

Bloodied Arcanite Reaper
Crusader

Bloodied Arcanite Reaper
Crusader

1) You will do more damage/have more kills if you play the warrior right regardless of your build as well. Charge/Heroic leap are for living, not for killing, you will do more the longer you are not at the graveyard, so keep your escapes for when it matters.

2) Free Action Potion = the best thing in a Fury Warriro's entire life.
Click to expand...

Too bad this is a thread for lvl 19.
 
Roadwarrior said:
Full haste is a trap, you can get to about 30% your hits are tiny... you do alot of them,but versus anybody that can heal its just worthless.

Full Crit at around 38% is the best simply because you can just randomly kill ANYBODY (I don't care about any bad resto goblins or dirty priests, they can randomly take 3k and explode, happens all the time). The rotation with no haste is just fine and you are never relying on white damage ever regardless.

Haste is a trap, its a cool trap, but a trap none the less.

NOTES:

Dueling as fury versus fury = for morons, since its just simply based on who gets the most crusader procs, so don't worry about dueling as a build for anything. And in a BG you never know who randomly has drinks that can just let them beat you. So don't ever base your fury/any warrior build on how you do versus another warrior 1v1, since its random for anybody. I've won (and lost) duels in 2 seconds, both crusaders proc, and you get 3 crits, fight is over in honestly 1-2 seconds... don't let that judge your skill level, it will only hamper your play.

AND ALSO REMEMBER most fury that you see that look good, are just pocket healed turds that can't/won't play without their heal buddy.

38% Critical Strike Build for maximum fun:
Polished Helm of Valor

Hematite Tortoise Pendant
Mark of the Hidden Satyr

Polished Spaulders of Valor
+3 Strength and +1 Critical Strike

Glowing Lizardscale Cloak
+1 Critical Strike & +2% Speed

Polished Breastplate of Valor
+7 All Stats

Gray Woolen Shirt

Rift Bracers
+4 Strength

Algae Fists
+6 Strength

Captain Nials' Belt

Polished Legplates of Valor
+2 Strength and +1 Critical Strike

Defiler's Plate Greaves
+3 Stamina and Minor Movement Speed

Beastbinder Ring
+2 Critical Strike

Lavishly Jeweled Ring
+2 Critical Strike

Touch of the Void

Flashing Steel Talisman

Bloodied Arcanite Reaper
Crusader

Bloodied Arcanite Reaper
Crusader

1) You will do more damage/have more kills if you play the warrior right regardless of your build as well. Charge/Heroic leap are for living, not for killing, you will do more the longer you are not at the graveyard, so keep your escapes for when it matters.

2) Free Action Potion = the best thing in a Fury Warriro's entire life.
Click to expand...

So this is a 19 fury warrior discussion. From what I can tell, you're talking 29s. While 29 fury warriors are probably somewhat relevant to 19 fury warriors - its a bit different since you've got some key additional moves (raging blow). At 19 you have Bloodthirst, Execute, Rampage, and Victory Rush as your melee moves. You've also got charge and axe throw and growl. So at 19, no matter what spec you have, there IS pure white damage time. You charge in, you hit bloodthirst, and now you're at 35 rage. You've got ~4 seconds until bloodthirst is off cooldown. Another 50 rage before rampage. So unless you were able to get them down into execute range with that single bloodthirst - you've got white damage for a few seconds no matter if you built haste or crit or verse.

19s also don't have free action pots. Or Heroic Leap. Its a totally different beast.
 
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