[19 - Cataclysm/Patch 4.0] Class/Specc viability

[lindenkron]

Cataclysm/Patch 4.0 Viabilities

This is a subjective point of view, and needs to be taken with the criticism that comes with it. All the information below is from my own personal experience, playing the PTR with almost every class of twink.

Note: Arena is added in case we're lucky enough to get it back.



Opinion on classes as of 27th of September 2010.



Bad - Decent - Good - Incredible



Warrior: Avg: Bad+

Arms: WSG - DUEL - ARENA

Lack of ToT, CC and Burst.

Fury: WSG - DUEL - ARENA

Have potential CC at the expense of DMG. Burst is half decent, but not enough to carry anything.

Protection: WSG - DUEL - ARENA

Lack of ToT. No CC, but quite an alright burst if loaded with rage and manage to get near target. Needs healer carrying though



Warlock: Avg: Decent+

Affliction: WSG - DUEL - ARENA

This specc can do it all, but loses it viability due to priests no longer having a defensive dispel to dispel Unstable Affliction. Only + in the specc is +25% shadow dmg to the 2 instant dots.

Demonology: WSG - DUEL - ARENA

This specc can do it all, but it's not really valid picking it over affliction or destruction. The Felguard have been greatly nerfed lately, losing abilities and such. Also this talent tree lost Soul Link a while ago.

Destruction: WSG - DUEL - ARENA

This specc is currently the over-all best way out for a warlock. It gives extra fire dmg to immolate and conflagrate. Rain of fire as well. It supplies the warlock with burst, (300~ non crit conflagrate in decent gear) which is a strength.



Rogue: Avg: Incredible

Assassination: WSG - DUEL - ARENA

The constant damage is quite nice. With 120 energy you can get 2x Mutilate off, with poisons hitting +50% chance. After that, u can with an improved evis crit some quite high numbers and drop enemies. There's still a ToT issue though, due to loss of shadowstep.

Combat: WSG - DUEL - ARENA

This specc deals a lot of constant damage. It is the most reliable specc if you wish to kill someone with constant damage. Such as PvE(possible FC?). There's still a ToT issue though, due to loss of shadowstep, so you'll need something with a slow to keep your close.

Subtlety: WSG - DUEL - ARENA

This spec is explicit. A fully geared rogue will be able to take out basically anyone in less than a few seconds, with Ambushes critting (90% crit chance) 1-1.2k.



Hunter: Avg: Incredible

Beast Mastery: WSG - DUEL - ARENA

Spec doesn't mean a hole lot to a hunter. They have what they need to rip it up against anything but a rogue really. Arcane shots will take out anyone in a matter of seconds, and beast master stun adds a really strong ability to doing so.

Marksmanship: WSG - DUEL - ARENA

As previous, hunters are generally very strong. But in duels, having a 3.5 second cast will rarely get used in these fast pasted matches. Tops, it's a good murder ability in Warsong.

Survival: WSG - DUEL - ARENA

For a 19 hunter, Explosive shot is not worth any of the talent points its taking up. You're better off in other trees, if it's damage you want.



Mage: Avg: Good

Arcane: WSG - DUEL - ARENA

This specc is good for doing damage on the move. It's lacking a bit of CC abilities but the improved counter spell makes it an ideal specc for 'small crowds'.

Fire: WSG - DUEL - ARENA

This specc was quite strange. I'd not take it over frost or arcane at any time and point, but I guess having fun with Pyroblast isn't too shabby.

Frost: WSG - DUEL - ARENA

An excellent specc for both arena CCing, damaging. Warsong CCing people in place, taking care of every melee class and bursting people down. For duelling it, it basically ensures victory against various classes, mostly melees.



Druid: Avg: Good+

Balance: WSG - DUEL - ARENA

This is definitely a warsong spec. It's ideal for bursting down EFCs and getting assited by CC classes. Unfortunately, a boomkin dies a bit fast, hence why said above.

Feral: WSG - DUEL - ARENA

Feral is looking rather good. The damage is consistent, the CC(slow) is proccing rather well. Only issue is survival. How-ever, it has come to my attention that if nuked going into bear and being rage fed will provide you with the opportunity to 2-3 hit almost anyone. 600 Mangle Crits in bear form.

Restoration: WSG - DUEL - ARENA

This is an obvious solution for you, if you wish to do arena and have strong heals. The new regrowth is fast like a Flash of Light, and swiftmend provides a good 'holy shit' ability for when you get in trouble. Unfortunately, there's still mana issues compared to other classes. Hence the score.



Priest: Avg: Good

Disciplin: WSG - DUEL - ARENA

This is a sublime specc for being an offensive healer. Penance doesn't heal that much as a defensive spell, but rips almost anyone as an offensive spell; doing 150~ each tick.

Holy: WSG - DUEL - ARENA

This is a rather good specc if you're not against too many people. The ability gained in the holy tree supplies any possible team with a bit of extra CC

Shadow: WSG - DUEL - ARENA

This specc does not currently supply enough damage to either out-damage, or survive + dmg anyone down in a duel. I've yet to do 2x with a shadowpriest, but some combos might work. Steady DPS.



Paladin: Avg: Good

Holy: WSG - DUEL - ARENA

With the newest introductions, holy paladins are the new thing. Instant Holy shock & Word of Glory basically keeps the paladin on constant move, without ever ooming him. If shit should hit the fan, there's a 10 seconds Hand of Protection, and Judgement of the wise + lifeblood provides less than 1 second fast heals. The 6 second stun also makes it a very viable partner for a strong DPS such as rogue.

Protection: WSG - DUEL - ARENA

As predicted, prot paladins since they lost daze on Avenger shield have issues with ToT. However, if not nuked by multiply people it can be hard to kill a prot paladin healing with Word of Glory. Strong in duels against physical enemies.

Retribution: WSG - DUEL - ARENA

The burst of this specc is nice with templars verdict, however ToT is such a major issue that unless against something like a warlock, paladins will have issues killing anything with a slow / cc effect. I don't see them making a come-back unless they get some more survival/anti CC abilities.



Shaman: Avg: Decent+

Elemental: WSG - DUEL - ARENA

Elemental shamans do hell of a lot of damage with Lightning Bolt. If allowed to cast. If not, they're basically sitting meat at a higher extend than Balance druids.

Enhancement: WSG - DUEL - ARENA

Damage when getting ToT isn't the best, but it's quite good. Interruptions and purge makes it a strong class but any class with a slow will make it hard for the shaman. Untested in a lot of scenarios so take this with a pinch of salt.

Restoration: WSG - DUEL - ARENA

Resto Shamans have a huge chance of dying in a duel if they get kicked/silenced just once. However, if they don't, their heals are strong and sustainable. They do a fair amount of damage with flame totem and flame shock, and will wear down most non-interrupting classes.





Videos of PTR:

http://www.twinkinfo.com/forums/vid...-cataclysm-ptr-videos-all-one.html#post192596



That was all I had for this time. Hope anyone finds this useful, sure took some time to make!



Best regards,

 

[Detroit]

Please hide this (fantastic) thread in fear of Blizz dev's seeing it -_-



/dontnerfrogueb4cata

 

[examinerEU]

You put warriors first....just so you knew i wouldnt read to the bottom!

 

[Grabco]

Good read and analysis thanks for putting this together. Seems like the averages are from an overall class point of view, if you were to take the canonical WSG-Arena specs I think mages would rank a bit higher and rogues after testing the other specs would rank a bit lower.

 

[Firetruckk]

I definitely agree'd with you on the mage part for sure. Right now, I'm Arcane on the PTR and I don't find, IMO, any other spec better for arena/duels.



-Going Arcane, you can really do some damage, as well as lock someone down for a good while and have awesome mobility. The spec I like to to go when I'm Arcane, to help benefit the most for duels and arenas ( hoping so, because the damn ptr doesnt offer it . ), is 2/2 Imp Counterspell which in addition to stopping any spell casted in a particular school for 8 seconds, also silences the target for 4 seconds (durations over lap). 3/3 into Netherwind Presence which increases spell haste by 3%, which IMO is awesome! and then finally for the added mobility and awesomeness of escaping a situation with more ease, is 1/2 Imp Blink, which adds an additional 35% run speed for 3 seconds after casting blink.

Playing with Nova and Blink during duels is such an awesome way to keep someone distanced for a very, very long time. Learning how to time to the two can keep you and your opponent away for a good while.



-Frost is awesome when it comes to snares/cc. The extra nova (with an AMAZING range) on the water ele is awesome, not to mention the extra damage it helps in doing. Also, a good way to spec for Frost in premades (D) would be to spec 3/3 into Early frost, 2/2 into Shatter, and 1 point into Improve cone of cold to obtain the most and best benefits of playing a frost mage on D.



-And as for the fire, right in the same boat with you on that one as well.

 

[Rámbó]

he doesnt need tot est the other specs for rouge because sublety will be the only spec any rouge uses couse its so OP

 

[lindenkron]

he doesnt need tot est the other specs for rouge because sublety will be the only spec any rouge uses couse its so OP

I'm still going to add at least Mutilate(Assassins). We know very well that combat is most likely bad, so we won't spent much time on it.



Mutilate offers quite an interesting deal though.

+50% chance to apply poisons, +100~ dmg. 4 attacks, can possibly be +200 dmg at max (Will explain why further down).

+15% dmg (with 2 weapons, is quite nice).

+20 Maximum energy (120 energy in total).

Mutilate being 60 enery, you could use this twice rapidly after one another, dealing(We're assuming) a great amount of damage.



If it crits, the talent will increase damage by 30%, and since you attack with 2 weapons, 2 times (2x2 = 4) and the average rogue have 30% crit chance, there's an alright chance of a crit on that. Also, you get +14% dmg on Eviscerate.



Now, using 2x Mutilate, will leave you with 4 points after 3 seconds, and that loads of for a nice eviscerate blow.



As you can see, I don't know any of this for sure, but will try to have it tested as soon as possible. Only thing left out of this, is the ability to shadow step every 20 sec (avoiding slows and immobilising effects)



Best regards,

 

[Khanodruid]

I've seen something like this, but it didn't come anywhere to close to this one. A great in-depth analysis of almost every aspect of 19 PvP, and it is greatly appreciated. Only thing that suprised me was when you said Balance Druids die a bit fast. I assumed Druids would now be a huge threat at 19 because they can finally do consistent damage and also keep themselves alive with their three healing spells and travel form.

 

[Scrounger]

Thank you for the post. I enjoyed reading it.



I tend to focus on 19 WSG, so I am curious about FC and other WSG roles, which I understand is a bit beyond the scope of the original post.



And pardon my ignorance, but what the heck does ToT stand for?

(twink on twink, time on target, ???)

 

[lindenkron]

Thank you for the post. I enjoyed reading it.



I tend to focus on 19 WSG, so I am curious about FC and other WSG roles, which I understand is a bit beyond the scope of the original post.



And pardon my ignorance, but what the heck does ToT stand for?

We have not tested Flag Carriers out, for one simple reason: Not enough decent twinks on opposing/own team to actually get a viable estimate.



ToT standards for Time on Target (Hamstringing someone, sticks you too them)

 

[Missboom]

Hunters and rogues doing the most damage at low levels... AGAIN?!? It's been like this since classic. Really blizz, why can't these agility users scale correctly with everyone else?



I like that classes/specs that were horribad or just non-existant in dps are now getting that viability, but damn.

 

[Kushington]

Thanks lindenkron, extremely helpful post!

 

[Scrounger]

Last I checked, Rogues and Hunters were top DPS classes in PvE also. Blizz said a while back that pure DPS classes (mage, lock, rogue, and hunter) should be able to out DPS hybrid / multi-role classes, so not much of a surprise. The idea is that the pure DPS classes have no other role, while the others have more choices and therefore utility.



I think most will agree that melee DPS is harder, in general, than ranged DPS. So, if you buy that whole argument, then rogues should be the highest overall DPS class. The aberration, IMHO, is that hunters have pwned for so long in WSG. They should be up there with locks and mages and rogues just a tad above the other three.



FYI, I classify Druid and Shamans as hybrid classes and Warriors, DKs, Priests, and Pallys as multi-roll classes since these latter classes can fulfill more than 1 PvE roll (DPS, heals, tank).

 

[Kyiolol]

Nice Thread Lindenkron



but i have to say, in Duels, Holypriest is ways better than Disc. same like Arena (i think) because the cc is to op vs. penance, and you dont need penance, because Priestheal is op enough to spam heal a long Time with big heals.



Shadow still sucks (in duels)



Best Specc in WSG + Arena + Duels is Holy (my point of view)



Skirmish is back? Or what you saying?

 

[Conrose]

Last I checked, Rogues and Hunters were top DPS classes in PvE also. Blizz said a while back that pure DPS classes (mage, lock, rogue, and hunter) should be able to out DPS hybrid / multi-role classes, so not much of a surprise. The idea is that the pure DPS classes have no other role, while the others have more choices and therefore utility.



I think most will agree that melee DPS is harder, in general, than ranged DPS. So, if you buy that whole argument, then rogues should be the highest overall DPS class. The aberration, IMHO, is that hunters have pwned for so long in WSG. They should be up there with locks and mages and rogues just a tad above the other three.



FYI, I classify Druid and Shamans as hybrid classes and Warriors, DKs, Priests, and Pallys as multi-roll classes since these latter classes can fulfill more than 1 PvE roll (DPS, heals, tank).

There are several factors that provide for the traditional strength that allow Rogues, Hunters and Warlocks to excel in Battlegrounds. First off, the Pure vs Hybrid balance gives them all an advantage at Damage Dealing. Second off, all three come with multiple CC Abilities, many of them instant cast. Third off, all three are fully capable of DPSing AND CCing while on the move thanks to alot of their key abilities being Instant cast. Hunter Snares/Roots/CC Allow them to kite a target all on a short cooldown, the Warlock's fear has no cooldown and can be used to juggle multiple targets, not exactly kiting, but it gets the job done. Rogues have long been the melee class with the best ToT, being nigh unkitable during BC thanks to Shadowstep. Rogues additional advantage is that they are a very cooldown reliant class which is traditionally stronger in PvP than weaker cooldowns on shorter cooldowns. Stealth plays a big role in the Rogue's BG dominance as well.



All in all, alot stack up in the favor of the Rogue, Hunter and Warlock that have allowed them to be a dominating presence in battlegrounds throughout the history of WoW, and in the majority of brackets.

 

[Grunge]

is shadow actually bad?



i mean, it looks like it should be decent. is it not doing enough damage? or is your healing to gimp compared to holy/disc players? are you using a spamable mindflay/assist macro(s)?



i always thought mindflay would be a godsend in this bracket for a priest wanting to dps..

 

[lindenkron]

@Grunge Shadow priests simply aren't doing enough dmg to be of any good (at least solo). It's not use that you're doing 100~ DPS every 1.5 sec if you're 1-hit by a rogue.. or hunter.. or mage... so forth.



Kyiolol, have you tried using penance offensively? It's a really bad healing spell, I'll give you that. Hence why I placed holy > disc in my original assessments. However, I met a disc priest in BG and tried feeling the opposite effect of it (I had not thought of that). At higher level penance is more of a defensive spell. However, @ 19 it does 150 dmg / per hit; adding up to 450~ non crit in 1.5 sec. It's amazingly OP at this current time in place, and can basically murder anyone with a half decent team mate. (Pray for nerf guys!)



I appreciate this many people enjoying my thread, makes me feel like it was worth spending 1+ hour on - Feel free to comment more! Thanks.



Best regards,

 

[Kyiolol]

[quote name='lindenkron']



Kyiolol, have you tried using penance offensively? It's a really bad healing spell, I'll give you that. Hence why I placed holy > disc in my original assessments. However, I met a disc priest in BG and tried feeling the opposite effect of it (I had not thought of that). At higher level penance is more of a defensive spell. However, @ 19 it does 150 dmg / per hit; adding up to 450~ non crit in 1.5 sec. It's amazingly OP at this current time in place, and can basically murder anyone with a half decent team mate. (Pray for nerf guys!)

/QUOTE]



Yeah, thats right, Penance is a very good Off Spell, anyways you cant say Disci is a better healing specc

 

[lindenkron]

Yeah, thats right, Penance is a very good Off Spell, anyways you cant say Disci is a better healing specc

Indeed I can and I did - A dead enemy isn't any good to anyone!



Offence is the best defence in some cases

 

[Kore nametooshort]

Unfortunately, there's still mana issues compared to other classes. Hence the score.

It might be less efficient than other healers, due to no nourish, but is that a problem? Its still pretty effeicient with good mana return as far as i can tell. Does the druid's mobility and defensive utility not make up for this?