[19 - Cataclysm/Patch 4.0] Class/Specc viability

Kore nametooshort said:
It might be less efficient than other healers, due to no nourish, but is that a problem? Its still pretty effeicient with good mana return as far as i can tell. Does the druid's mobility and defensive utility not make up for this?
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The "Defensive utilities" that you're referring to, is in this case 1. Cat form + Prowl. 2. Travel Form. 3. Roots.



The games are going to be fast paced in cataclysm, and it's so easy to interrupt roots etc. now, that when facing some of the hardcore classes, you're not going to have the greatest use of that. Against some stuff like a warrior.. maybe.. then again, warriors are horrible right now, so might as well just smack him one.



Rogues will just shadowstep / kick you.. gouge you..

Hunters don't really care, if you start casting roots you get a 3 sec root cast because of knockback, resulting in your death.

If you try to do it on Mages you'll have to fake cast, or counterspelled.. on top of that they just blink out if in trouble, so it's quite useless.

Ret Paladins will most likely trinket / stun you as you cast it, and burn you down in a matter of seconds if you're not in bear form (Which you will be).

Shamans have interrupt still, and if elemental, roots is not something you wanna waste your time on. You'll just get thunder stormed or shocked. Enhancement same, and resto doesn't really care about your roots.

Holy paladins will be shagging pillars and instant healing while jumping around going "lululuul I got 50% physical dmg reduction hence im the best and only healer" while you catform case him and slow him with your slow feral thing. No roots.

What am I missing.. hmm.. other druids, well I shouldn't need to explain that...

Priests, possible a use, but I don't see it. Rather spend the time nuking him, instead of rooting him. Priests are like rock if you don't have interrupt (druids don't, they lost stun in bear form), so you'd prolly wanna rely on your team mate.

Warlocks... could be, but you'd prolly get feared if u start casting roots, so it's all the same really.



Travel form is good for running away and healing. Prowl is nice for opener, and if you can get out of combat for a prowl + bandage.



I think that was it ? :D
 
lindenkron said:
The "Defensive utilities" that you're referring to, is in this case 1. Cat form + Prowl. 2. Travel Form. 3. Roots.



The games are going to be fast paced in cataclysm, and it's so easy to interrupt roots etc. now, that when facing some of the hardcore classes, you're not going to have the greatest use of that. Against some stuff like a warrior.. maybe.. then again, warriors are horrible right now, so might as well just smack him one.



Rogues will just shadowstep / kick you.. gouge you..

Hunters don't really care, if you start casting roots you get a 3 sec root cast because of knockback, resulting in your death.

If you try to do it on Mages you'll have to fake cast, or counterspelled.. on top of that they just blink out if in trouble, so it's quite useless.

Ret Paladins will most likely trinket / stun you as you cast it, and burn you down in a matter of seconds if you're not in bear form (Which you will be).

Shamans have interrupt still, and if elemental, roots is not something you wanna waste your time on. You'll just get thunder stormed or shocked. Enhancement same, and resto doesn't really care about your roots.

Holy paladins will be shagging pillars and instant healing while jumping around going "lululuul I got 50% physical dmg reduction hence im the best and only healer" while you catform case him and slow him with your slow feral thing. No roots.

What am I missing.. hmm.. other druids, well I shouldn't need to explain that...

Priests, possible a use, but I don't see it. Rather spend the time nuking him, instead of rooting him. Priests are like rock if you don't have interrupt (druids don't, they lost stun in bear form), so you'd prolly wanna rely on your team mate.

Warlocks... could be, but you'd prolly get feared if u start casting roots, so it's all the same really.



Travel form is good for running away and healing. Prowl is nice for opener, and if you can get out of combat for a prowl + bandage.



I think that was it ? :D
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you missed that druids are sheepable in caster form and can't break it by shifting into other forms. Note they are immune in forms but if you catch them in caster they are screwed
 
lindenkron said:
Indeed I can and I did :) - A dead enemy isn't any good to anyone!



Offence is the best defence in some cases :)
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But not as a Priest, Disc. have 2 amazing things, Penance (mostly use Off.) and 15% more Intellect.

Holy have 15% more healing effect and the Stun.



Now tell me who have more survival abilitys ?^^

For sure the Holy, when a Rogue is picking on you, you have a BIG BIG Problem as a Disc. as a Holy you can /lol him, because you kick her ass =D
 
maaaaan, disc used to be the hip, edgy spec to play cuz everyone thought it was gimp. Now EVERYONE is gonna want to play it, guess i gotta go shadow :/
 
Grunge said:
maaaaan, disc used to be the hip, edgy spec to play cuz everyone thought it was gimp. Now EVERYONE is gonna want to play it, guess i gotta go shadow :/
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If you want a more Off. Priest than a Def. Priest, spec Disc. Otherwise Holy will be better forever :)
 
Kyiolol said:
But not as a Priest, Disc. have 2 amazing things, Penance (mostly use Off.) and 15% more Intellect.

Holy have 15% more healing effect and the Stun.



Now tell me who have more survival abilitys ?^^

For sure the Holy, when a Rogue is picking on you, you have a BIG BIG Problem as a Disc. as a Holy you can /lol him, because you kick her ass =D
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I don't think you understood me. :p

You won't role holy, I've seen a holy priest get murked off by a rogue in 3 seconds so I'm not sure your statement holds water.



If the enemy is dead, you don't need to be 15% more healing and a 3 sec stun better in survival. That's what I'm saying :).



If you want a pure healer, I wouldn't go with priest. I'd go with Hpala, maybe to some extend a Druid :)
 
lindenkron said:
I don't think you understood me. :p

You won't role holy, I've seen a holy priest get murked off by a rogue in 3 seconds so I'm not sure your statement holds water.



If the enemy is dead, you don't need to be 15% more healing and a 3 sec stun better in survival. That's what I'm saying :).



If you want a pure healer, I wouldn't go with priest. I'd go with Hpala, maybe to some extend a Druid :)
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Dont know what a Priest you seen, i dueled Rogues on PTR as a Holy, sure Ambush Crit and i loose more than 50% Health, who cares ?^^

on PTR i won against Rogues every Duel.



I dont want to reroll a Hpala :p because my Main is Pala, i think that could be boring after 1-2 Months

Druid is Booooooooring :p

My first Twink was a Priest and my Maintwink will be a Priest till i Quit wow ;)
 
There's currently 600 ms+ on PTR, meaning after initial hit, it's terribly hard / impossible to hit anyone as a melee. Wait for live :)
 
Scrounger said:
FYI, I classify Druid and Shamans as hybrid classes and Warriors, DKs, Priests, and Pallys as multi-roll classes since these latter classes can fulfill more than 1 PvE roll (DPS, heals, tank).
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I guess you don't play 80 do you? Druids and Paladins are the ONLY multi-roll classes. Meaning they can fulfill all 3 roles in PvE (DPS, Heals, Tank). Warriors, DKs, Priests are considered hybrids because they can fulfill 1 more role than pures can (DPS, Tank or Heal). Mages, Locks, Hunters, and Rogues should all be doing more damage than other classes no matter what level simply because they can only fulfill one role (DPS). It's how Blizzard has claimed and tried to model since Vanilla WoW. It might not be true all the time, which is why you will see many Hybrid nerfs or Pure buffs.
 
RizenPhoenix said:
I guess you don't play 80 do you? Druids and Paladins are the ONLY multi-roll classes. Meaning they can fulfill all 3 roles in PvE (DPS, Heals, Tank). Warriors, DKs, Priests are considered hybrids because they can fulfill 1 more role than pures can (DPS, Tank or Heal). Mages, Locks, Hunters, and Rogues should all be doing more damage than other classes no matter what level simply because they can only fulfill one role (DPS). It's how Blizzard has claimed and tried to model since Vanilla WoW. It might not be true all the time, which is why you will see many Hybrid nerfs or Pure buffs.
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In cataclysm, that will be 3 classes. Shaman, Paladin, Warrior.

Allow me to introduce the awesome dev team at blizzards newest idea: Rockbiter Weapon - Spell - World of Warcraft (2x weapon). 60% threat, -10% dmg. I thought this was common knowledge to people? :eek:
 
Rockbiter was designed for a shaman to pick up adds if they needed to, not to be a permanent tank. sorta like saying a hunter is a tank because their pets can generate high aggro, and turtles have good armor. A shaman cant really tank with 2 one handers they will die to fast, but they can pick up aggro for a little while to save a group.



I would say for anyone stuck on playing one class, at the time you chose to pick that class it was what it still is. But when cata hits a lot of things will be changing and you might want to re-evaluate where everything is at. Like a rogue today could not claim to be good as rogues once were, most classes and even the dynamic of the entire bracket has shifted. It would be a good idea to wait one month after cata hits play your class a bunch, decide if its good, and if not find the class that most closely resembles the style you used to play. Also its a good idea to pick a semi decent class, no one I know enjoys sitting in the graveyard waiting to come back because you get killed so easily.



Druids will be good as feral anyway, being able to shift out of snares is huge, and the movement advantage while being able to do damage is very nice for killing anyone. Being able to heal yourself is good utility, and being able to roots if you have to is very good as well. I would not count druids out by a long shot. People have always liked feral druids and now that they are viable, if not good, then they will become much more popular then they are today.
 
How can you say Shamans are only decent and shit with duels?



Purging AGM and being the only dispell able to do so in the bracket = GG?



Also I think shamans will be a lot more viable than you give them credit for.
 
@Pilgrim

I believe your argument is invalid. To get the effect of rockbiter, you would have to put it on weapon. That's 2x GCD, 3 seconds. Now, take in account you having to notice someone got agro. That's 1-2 seconds, depending on reaction time, camera view etc. Now, if it's a large area, you have to run there as well. That's an extra 2-5 seconds. That leaves us with a 10~ sec time just to get there with the weapons enchanted (Theory). Also, you have to nuke the target enough to take threat over a possible DPS that has it. There's no taunts for shamans (As of yet, to my knowledge). How do you see this as being a "Take agro from someone that's not supposed to have it"? - All I can see it as being, is a TPS threat build ability. It nerfs damage due to missing weapon enchantments (WF etc.) but still leaves the shaman with extra TPS (for tanking).



To sum up: The target with agro would be dead by the time the shaman can do anything about it. :)



An idea I had though, that crossed my mind. Anyone remember the bosses in TBC where mages had to tank. Warlocks had to tank.. in Vanilla as well, warlock tanks and so forth? I was thinking this might be an "off mob tank" ability, in larger (25) man raids. Just a thought.



SSB64 said:
How can you say Shamans are only decent and shit with duels?



Purging AGM and being the only dispell able to do so in the bracket = GG?



Also I think shamans will be a lot more viable than you give them credit for.
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In a bracket/a game where most classes are critting 600-1200, a 750-1250 AGM is not that game breaking. I thought so at first as well.



You guys been on the PTR? Experienced it? If not, get on, on a geared twink. Fight other twinks, and from there speak of your experience.



As written at the top, this is a SUBJECTIVE opinion. :)



Best regards,
 
Kore nametooshort said:
Where you at? Brill or Naralex?
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Both mate. There was a bug a few days ago, that allowed you to move unlimited amount of character. So I just mass transfered characters over. Some of them failed unfortunately though :( - Where are you?
 
just started xferring my druid over to brill. Might move my sham and warrior as well.



Edit: Just started copying my other twinks over, and my druid to naralex too. It seems like i might have unlimited copies too, since apparently i still have 4 copies available, despite having done 4 already.
 
lindenkron said:
@Pilgrim

I believe your argument is invalid. To get the effect of rockbiter, you would have to put it on weapon. That's 2x GCD, 3 seconds. Now, take in account you having to notice someone got agro. That's 1-2 seconds, depending on reaction time, camera view etc. Now, if it's a large area, you have to run there as well. That's an extra 2-5 seconds. That leaves us with a 10~ sec time just to get there with the weapons enchanted (Theory). Also, you have to nuke the target enough to take threat over a possible DPS that has it. There's no taunts for shamans (As of yet, to my knowledge). How do you see this as being a "Take agro from someone that's not supposed to have it"? - All I can see it as being, is a TPS threat build ability. It nerfs damage due to missing weapon enchantments (WF etc.) but still leaves the shaman with extra TPS (for tanking).



To sum up: The target with agro would be dead by the time the shaman can do anything about it. :)



An idea I had though, that crossed my mind. Anyone remember the bosses in TBC where mages had to tank. Warlocks had to tank.. in Vanilla as well, warlock tanks and so forth? I was thinking this might be an "off mob tank" ability, in larger (25) man raids. Just a thought.





In a bracket/a game where most classes are critting 600-1200, a 750-1250 AGM is not that game breaking. I thought so at first as well.



You guys been on the PTR? Experienced it? If not, get on, on a geared twink. Fight other twinks, and from there speak of your experience.



As written at the top, this is a SUBJECTIVE opinion. :)



Best regards,
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cannot specify another post as invalid if you claim what you say to be subjective...



also you are wrong about the shaman tank thing.



they do not possess any defensive capability at all except the ability to use a shield, so dual wielding rockbiters is out of the question should your bizarre theorycrafting every come to fruition.



Besides, had you looked further into it you would have noticed a few other updates.



Frost shock snares enemies, it has recently been given a "causes high threat" variable in addition to the slow, so primarily it would be used for kiting pve adds around a room.



Rockbiter weapon has a 30% additional threat modifier as well as a 5% buff to reduced damage taken. (clueless myself as to why they felt the 5% was needed, its too small to make any difference but truth is if you are on kite duty you shouldnt be hit anyway...) This threat modifier is too small to snap aggro off anything too quickly especially if its going to be burned, but coupled with frost shock on a 5 second cooldown and you can stack threat rate high in a short time.



Unleash Weapon is a new lvl 81 learned ability for shamans which unleashes the current weapon enchant in use. Rockbiters version is a TAUNT. -->this<-- is the threat clincher, so all its for is picking up adds and kiting them waiting in turn for the dps to nuke it down.



they will never bring back shaman tanks.
 
[video=youtube;pJ-rgQupfGs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJ-rgQupfGs[/video]



Thought this might help... Shaman tanking = viable?
 
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