[19 - Cataclysm/Patch 4.0] Class/Specc viability

I'm surprised nobody has brought up the "Deadly Momentum" talent in the rogue's Assassination talent tree, I think that will be the talent that puts Mutilate on par, or even better, with Sub/BS spec in WSG.
 
Khanodruid said:
[video=youtube;pJ-rgQupfGs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJ-rgQupfGs[/video]



Thought this might help... Shaman tanking = viable?
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Rogues have solod stuff in naxx, so I dont think he was going to call into question if they could tank or not. The point is that they are not equipped to deal with it as well as any other tanking class, like we both pointed out it appears like they were designed to offtank or kite stuff when called upon. Impossible to prove besides what has already been shown, guess all we can do is wait and see.



One last point though, in a premade would you not run a druid or shaman flag runner "because you could", or go with a logical and better suited class for the job? Shamans could tank but armor mitigation and tanking spec with cooldowns are important for most groups.
 
Fernald said:
I'm surprised nobody has brought up the "Deadly Momentum" talent in the rogue's Assassination talent tree, I think that will be the talent that puts Mutilate on par, or even better, with Sub/BS spec in WSG.
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I think if it works it works, but shadow step and 90% ambush crit with the slow make sub hard for most rogues to pass up.
 
Fernald said:
I'm surprised nobody has brought up the "Deadly Momentum" talent in the rogue's Assassination talent tree, I think that will be the talent that puts Mutilate on par, or even better, with Sub/BS spec in WSG.
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It wont have the same ToT benefits that ShS and waylay have, and Deadly momentum seems to put you quite at the mercy of the RNG gods. Also, iirc, talents with wording similar to that tend to require you to get the KB, rather than HK, so the up time might be less than optimal.
 
Vaught said:
cannot specify another post as invalid if you claim what you say to be subjective...



also you are wrong about the shaman tank thing.



they do not possess any defensive capability at all except the ability to use a shield, so dual wielding rockbiters is out of the question should your bizarre theorycrafting every come to fruition.



Besides, had you looked further into it you would have noticed a few other updates.



Frost shock snares enemies, it has recently been given a "causes high threat" variable in addition to the slow, so primarily it would be used for kiting pve adds around a room.



Rockbiter weapon has a 30% additional threat modifier as well as a 5% buff to reduced damage taken. (clueless myself as to why they felt the 5% was needed, its too small to make any difference but truth is if you are on kite duty you shouldnt be hit anyway...) This threat modifier is too small to snap aggro off anything too quickly especially if its going to be burned, but coupled with frost shock on a 5 second cooldown and you can stack threat rate high in a short time.



Unleash Weapon is a new lvl 81 learned ability for shamans which unleashes the current weapon enchant in use. Rockbiters version is a TAUNT. -->this<-- is the threat clincher, so all its for is picking up adds and kiting them waiting in turn for the dps to nuke it down.



they will never bring back shaman tanks.
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"As written at the top, this is a SUBJECTIVE opinion. " wasn't regarding my post. But regarding the OP (my thread), and the level 19s. It was as you can see if you bother looking, a reply to a different quote.



I fail to see how Rockbiter is in any way a 'TAUNT'. It's a static enchant, that generates threat over time. Not a taunt.

However, "Unleash Elements" which changes its ability according to the weapon enchant, is a taunt. Also, Frost Shock (as you mentioned) now generates high threat. Hmm, it looks more and more to me, as if they're beginning to introduce shaman tanks. If not 100% tanks, then off-tanks.



They got high threat generation.

They got a taunt.

They got extra threat generating abilities...



I see where this is going... And as Khano linked, you could even do it prior to these new moves. I rest my case.



Kore nametooshort said:
It wont have the same ToT benefits that ShS and waylay have, and Deadly momentum seems to put you quite at the mercy of the RNG gods. Also, iirc, talents with wording similar to that tend to require you to get the KB, rather than HK, so the up time might be less than optimal.
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Exactly. You need to get the kill, not the HK.

Deadly Momentum - Rank 2

"After killing an opponent that yields experience or honor, the critical strike chance of your next attack within 10 sec is increased by 40% and your Slice and Dice and Recuperate abilities are refreshed to their original duration."
 
lindenkron said:
"As written at the top, this is a SUBJECTIVE opinion. " wasn't regarding my post. But regarding the OP (my thread), and the level 19s. It was as you can see if you bother looking, a reply to a different quote.



I fail to see how Rockbiter is in any way a 'TAUNT'. It's a static enchant, that generates threat over time. Not a taunt.

However, "Unleash Elements" which changes its ability according to the weapon enchant, is a taunt. Also, Frost Shock (as you mentioned) now generates high threat. Hmm, it looks more and more to me, as if they're beginning to introduce shaman tanks. If not 100% tanks, then off-tanks.



They got high threat generation.

They got a taunt.

They got extra threat generating abilities...



I see where this is going... And as Khano linked, you could even do it prior to these new moves. I rest my case.







Exactly. You need to get the kill, not the HK.

Deadly Momentum - Rank 2

"After killing an opponent that yields experience or honor, the critical strike chance of your next attack within 10 sec is increased by 40% and your Slice and Dice and Recuperate abilities are refreshed to their original duration."
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how can you rest your case? lol^^ read up, i never stated rockbiter was a taunt i said the rockbiter VERSION of UE was a taunt.



but tanking is more than just threat and a taunt, but i guess you know that.



how do we suppose they will take any hits? how will they tank more than one mob? magma totem?^^



they have zero defensive cooldowns and mitigation talents outside of a dodgy battlemasters in resto and 12% magic reduction in ele.



they have tools specified strictly for caster kiting, think big oozes in icc
 
RizenPhoenix said:
I guess you don't play 80 do you? Druids and Paladins are the ONLY multi-roll classes. Meaning they can fulfill all 3 roles in PvE (DPS, Heals, Tank). Warriors, DKs, Priests are considered hybrids because they can fulfill 1 more role than pures can (DPS, Tank or Heal). Mages, Locks, Hunters, and Rogues should all be doing more damage than other classes no matter what level simply because they can only fulfill one role (DPS). It's how Blizzard has claimed and tried to model since Vanilla WoW. It might not be true all the time, which is why you will see many Hybrid nerfs or Pure buffs.
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This is a repeat of my earlier post with essentially no new content other than you caught my mistake - in that I switched Pallys and Shammies. Thank you for catching that. A simple note would have sufficed. Learning not to be a jerk about it will pay off in real life.



The part about Shammies is correct from a historical perspective in that they were originally intended to also be able to tank. In closing, I do play 80s and probably have more than you - not that it matters.
 
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