I know alot of you are waiting for scaling.

[Upswag]

Don't argue with Willix. He's the village troll for 29s/39s etc. Look up Willy on any of those brackets and you'll see pages and pages and pages of people bitching at him. He's a nice person for sure, but his beliefs in twinking border somewhere between strange and fictional.

 

[Upswag]

This is the strangest thread ever. I don't even understand why there's an argument. I feel like there has never been a time in F2P history where we have had less to complain about than right now.

Some thoughts from Kincaide:

1) Neon does not speak for all F2Ps. I have not heard anyone but him claim that 29s need to gimp themselves in order to be respected as competitive. That's his view; please don't project it onto the rest of us. In fact, several people have already said that they don't agree with him, or that they think he's just baiting/trolling. The reality is, thanks to scaling, we're as close to on-par with the top of our bracket as we could hope to be given they pay and we don't. No complaints here. We scale beautifully in BGs and we will do so in arenas soon enough. Exercise some patience.

2) In my opinion I think it is inaccurate to say that P2Ps left other brackets for the purpose of being able to faceroll trials. That's a cynical world-view and I just don't think it's true. The vast, vast majority of us are just regular dudes coming home from our regular school or our regular job and wanting to get some pops. People go where the pops are. Blizzard made the 20-24 bracket far and away the most active bracket, and it was that activity--not the promise of easy wins--that I believe truly drew players from other brackets.

3) With the possible exception of Neon's intent, I don't see anyone trolling this thread, and I don't see anyone attacking someone else personally. People may disagree with each other's point of view, but that's why mankind invented language. (Not really, but you get my point). Thus for as long as no one is getting bullied and no one is personally insulting another person, I don't really see why anyone would call for this thread to be closed. One could make an argument that it belongs in the 20-29 forum because it's dealing with the whole bracket and not just F2P matters, but to close the thread entirely? I think that would be a mistake.

Carry on if y'all must, but please keep in mind that when one person gives their own opinion, you shouldn't extrapolate that opinion to the rest of the group that person is in. I have zero issues with our current situation as F2Ps, and I think we should be building bridges with the P2Ps, not continuing to pick at scabs that no longer apply.

Just a note on the P2Ps not coming here to grief thing - I disagree. Call my cynical if you want, but you're taking a viewpoint that those of us over the age of say 22 have. IE: We know that the world isn't a competition and that being an asshole gets you nothing. The children, and I do mean children in literally every sense of the word, that populate the vast majority of this game and forum simply will not and do not understand that. I didn't at that age - go back to my old, old posts on my old TI account and you will find posts that are probably JUST like the ones you see here. I would have rolled a 24 or 29 to faceroll F2Ps and talked shit the whole time when I was 12-16. That's what hormones and high school do to you no matter what social strata you are in.

At the end of the day, it always helps me to remember that I'm probably arguing with a 16 year old and to put that in perspective.

Also - until arenas are fixed, a lot of people on this forum are going to complain (and honestly have a right to). A lot of those players were holding out to play this game because of skirms. Those not being fixed while BGs are is honestly quite frustrating.
[MENTION=12370]willix[/MENTION] - I'll bite this one time, but I know you agree with me because you said as much in our third podcast - 29s would not exist without F2Ps. You can't really bitch at us/them because you wouldn't be playing any of your twinks and would still be on your 90 bored to tears if they didn't exist.

 

[Shaket]

Just a note on the P2Ps not coming here to grief thing - I disagree. Call my cynical if you want, but you're taking a viewpoint that those of us over the age of say 22 have. IE: We know that the world isn't a competition and that being an asshole gets you nothing. The children, and I do mean children in literally every sense of the word, that populate the vast majority of this game and forum simply will not and do not understand that. I didn't at that age - go back to my old, old posts on my old TI account and you will find posts that are probably JUST like the ones you see here. I would have rolled a 24 or 29 to faceroll F2Ps and talked shit the whole time when I was 12-16. That's what hormones and high school do to you no matter what social strata you are in.

At the end of the day, it always helps me to remember that I'm probably arguing with a 16 year old and to put that in perspective.

Also - until arenas are fixed, a lot of people on this forum are going to complain (and honestly have a right to). A lot of those players were holding out to play this game because of skirms. Those not being fixed while BGs are is honestly quite frustrating.
willix - I'll bite this one time, but I know you agree with me because you said as much in our third podcast - 29s would not exist without F2Ps. You can't really bitch at us/them because you wouldn't be playing any of your twinks and would still be on your 90 bored to tears if they didn't exist.

How many F2Ps did it take to get the Gilneas games that we got this past week?
The numerical answer gives you the exact amount that 29s need f2ps. 29s needed skirmishes at low level. Blizzard gave that back to us. Blizzard. Blizzard is not a F2P player. 29s are not 24s, maybe the 24s needed you, 29s do not. You don't even realize what we've been doing for the past several years in North America 29s, so I suggest you shut your hole & know your role. Go educate yourself, go talk to someone like Bwappo , actually learn something about 29s before you insert your foot into your own mouth once again.

 

[Kincaide]

How many F2Ps did it take to get the Gilneas games that we got this past week?

Honest question here: How many pops of any kind did you get the week before it was announced that F2Ps would be merged into the 29s bracket?

 

[Upswag]

How many F2Ps did it take to get the Gilneas games that we got this past week?
The numerical answer gives you the exact amount that 29s need f2ps. 29s needed skirmishes at low level. Blizzard gave that back to us. Blizzard. Blizzard is not a F2P player. 29s are not 24s, maybe the 24s needed you, 29s do not. You don't even realize what we've been doing for the past several years in North America 29s, so I suggest you shut your hole & know your role. Go educate yourself, go talk to someone like Bwappo , actually learn something about 29s before you insert your foot into your own mouth once again.

I play 29s.

I know exactly what 29s have been doing for the past several years. You tried what, five times, to get the bracket going? And it failed what? Every time? Oh right! I forgot, the 29 bracket literally couldn't agree to make the teams fair enough for pops to continue to happen.

And you know why Gilneas popped? It's because ALL OF THE F2PS got on their 29s. That's right, while you haven't been twinking whatsoever, I have. You know why it popped? Because all of HB's F2P friends, Yoube, Ezeron, Kevi, Albino and so on ALL tried to get it to pop. You know what's going to happen when F2Ps scale as well as 29s?

Well, I'm sure even you can figure it out.
Bwappo - Dude it's got to be sad that this is the vitriol you are now associated with. Come back to chilling with Yoube and Chops and I!

And before you ask: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/bleeding hollow/talon/simple

 

[Shaket]

I play 29s dipshit.

I know exactly what 29s have been doing for the past several years. You tried what, five times, to get the bracket going? And it failed what? Every time? Oh right! I forgot, the 29 bracket literally couldn't pull it's collective head out of it's collective asshole to make the teams fair enough for pops to continue to happen.

And you know why Gilneas popped? It's because ALL OF THE F2PS got on their 29s. That's right, while you haven't been twinking whatsoever, I have. You know why it popped? Because all of HB's F2P friends, Yoube, Ezeron, Kevi, Albino and so on ALL tried to get it to pop. You know what's going to happen when F2Ps scale as well as 29s?

Well, I'm sure even you can figure it out.
Bwappo - Dude it's got to be sad that this is the vitriol you are now associated with. Come back to chilling with Yoube and Chops and I!

And before you ask: Talon @ Bleeding Hollow - Community - World of Warcraft

Do you understand the impact that the removal of skirmishes had on low-level twinking or were you not around yet?

I ask because you sure seem to be dismissing the impact of blizzard re-adding this feature. You certainly don't seem to realize that adding this feature without resetting the brackets to their previous x0-x9 status would have been fine for most 29s. 4 people to get a pop is cake when you dont even have to co-ordinate everybody getting xp-off, same server anchors for wargames, etc.

It's funny that you would namedrop yoube, I've twinked with him (& chops & 'rise) in 39s since long before 20-24 existed, idk maybe it was an attempt at some OG f2p thug gangsta thing, but ty, it was funny nonetheless.

 

[Neon]

You figure this isn't the 29 bracket anymore just because YOU declared it? Now a "quitting"(cry out for attention) f2p is the ultimate authority and can GO BACK ON THE ESTABLISHED LABEL for the 29 bracket (ie 19 bracket, 39 bracket, 49 bracket, 59 bracket, do you see the pattern or are you braindead). Its amazing what people think they can get for free, lmao.



It was 20-29 before you even heard of this game, and now it is 20-29 AGAIN. You know what the bracket is called when its 20-29? The 29 Bracket. You want bracketmaster naming privileges, you can pay for it like everybody else.

You already made your "I quit" attention-seeking thread, now gtfo of my bracket.



You missed a bracket or four(I didnt), 59s, 10s, 19s, 80s, but I guess EU has a different meaning for "all xp off brackets".

Interesting.

"the p2p's need the f2p's...thats the truth" -- Do you understand exactly how many f2ps we needed to get the Gilneas games that we've had this past week?

Majority rules pal.

 

[Upswag]

Do you understand the impact that the removal of skirmishes had on low-level twinking or were you not around yet?

I ask because you sure seem to be dismissing the impact of blizzard re-adding this feature. You certainly don't seem to realize that adding this feature without resetting the brackets to their previous x0-x9 status would have been fine for most 29s. 4 people to get a pop is cake when you dont even have to co-ordinate everybody getting xp-off, same server anchors for wargames, etc.

It's funny that you would namedrop yoube, I've twinked with him (& chops & 'rise) in 39s since long before 20-24 existed, idk maybe it was an attempt at some OG f2p thug gangsta thing, but ty, it was funny nonetheless.

I realize that you are lost beyond reason, so let me try to find you a map. Yes, I know the impact that the removal of skirms had - but that was in WRATH. All of those brackets were still flourishing after Wrath - it was the removal of twinks from basic leveling BGs that was the death knell of most of the brackets.

4 people? Really? This is when you know you're wrong - when you try to claim that a bracket would be fine because FOUR people are in it. Good lord.

Finally, name-drop Yoube? I don't even... [MENTION=11844]youbeezy[/MENTION] pls help. I don't know what to say.

PS: Do you even know what Yoube, Chops and Rise do? Hint: I made them come play F2Ps with me and that's ALL Chops does, that's what Yoube did (although granted we keep flaking out on each other so HB can take the credit for keeping him here) for the most part and it's what Rise did before he quit.

PPS:

No thanks, I'd rather my 29s get no pops at all than be turned into a garbage bracket.

????

 

[willix]

I know exactly what 29s have been doing for the past several years.

Apparently not.

You tried what, five times, to get the bracket going? And it failed what? Every time? Oh right! I forgot, the 29 bracket literally couldn't agree to make the teams fair enough for pops to continue to happen.

Except for the fact that getting bracket activity requires more than just people to agree on fair teams. It takes having enough interest to get activity, some semblance of balanced classes, and the right support from Blizzard to make it work. 29s (as well as other brackets) have been derailed in the past by things such as bugged queues, extremely broken classes, the removal of major game systems, and other shortsighted Blizzard development.

F2Ps are literally a bracket that exists solely because trial accounts are naturally capped at level 20. And when you say we've failed at revivals? That's laughable. We've managed to overcome these obstacles several times and successfully get games to pop. That's not failure. That's determination combined with resolve. Which is a lot more than I could ever say about the F2P bracket. You've never rallied the troops to resurrect a dead bracket - you've never had to. Your bracket has had the constant supply of new players to keep games popping 24/7 for the last couple years.

F2P is no effort necessary. Blizzard goes and removes skirms tomorrow? F2Ps still pop. Blizzard goes and gimps the hell out of several classes and buffs a couple others to god mode? F2Ps still pop. This is why other brackets have trouble - the people that could get them going are too busy being distracted by the novelty of 'pay no money pvp.' It's like being too distracted by a welfare check to get an actual job.

But it's so nice of you to ignore the actual history of other brackets to preach from your soapbox.

I realize that you are lost beyond reason, so let me try to find you a map. Yes, I know the impact that the removal of skirms had - but that was in WRATH. All of those brackets were still flourishing after Wrath - it was the removal of twinks from basic leveling BGs that was the death knell of most of the brackets.

4 people? Really? This is when you know you're wrong - when you try to claim that a bracket would be fine because FOUR people are in it. Good lord.

Finally, name-drop Yoube? I don't even... youbeezy pls help. I don't know what to say.

PS: Do you even know what Yoube, Chops and Rise do? Hint: I made them come play F2Ps with me and that's ALL Chops does, that's what Yoube did (although granted we keep flaking out on each other so HB can take the credit for keeping him here) for the most part and it's what Rise did before he quit.

There are two kinds of people who play F2Ps:

- The kind of people who are completely enamored with playing Wow without having to pay for it.

- The friends of those people.

I think I know Yoube, Nirise, and Chops well enough to know why they played F2Ps - it wasn't because they were enamored with F2Ps and totally got into playing them. It was because friends wanted them to come play. Literally, they made F2Ps because someone they knew was making one and they were bored, burned out on trying to get other brackets to pop, or short on free time. Just in case you didn't know, all three of those guys were part of a bigger group of people who were hosting podcasts for Twinking.net, and at the time there was a push to create an arena community on Korgath Alliance.

I distinctly remember talking to all of those guys specific about twinking, why they weren't trying to support other brackets, and why on earth they'd even want to try F2P, let alone commit to it. With exception of 85s, most everyone was done trying to twink other brackets, naturally falling into F2Ps to hang out with friends.

 

[Neon]

Apparently not.



Except for the fact that getting bracket activity requires more than just people to agree on fair teams. It takes having enough interest to get activity, some semblance of balanced classes, and the right support from Blizzard to make it work. 29s (as well as other brackets) have been derailed in the past by things such as bugged queues, extremely broken classes, the removal of major game systems, and other shortsighted Blizzard development.

F2Ps are literally a bracket that exists solely because trial accounts are naturally capped at level 20. And when you say we've failed at revivals? That's laughable. We've managed to overcome these obstacles several times and successfully get games to pop. That's not failure. That's determination combined with resolve. Which is a lot more than I could ever say about the F2P bracket. You've never rallied the troops to resurrect a dead bracket - you've never had to. Your bracket has had the constant supply of new players to keep games popping 24/7 for the last couple years.

F2P is no effort necessary. Blizzard goes and removes skirms tomorrow? F2Ps still pop. Blizzard goes and gimps the hell out of several classes and buffs a couple others to god mode? F2Ps still pop. This is why other brackets have trouble - the people that could get them going are too busy being distracted by the novelty of 'pay no money pvp.' It's like being too distracted by a welfare check to get an actual job.

But it's so nice of you to ignore the actual history of other brackets to preach from your soapbox.

Maybe you should go resurrect a more quality bracket, this one is missing a competitive edge for you troopers.

 

[willix]

Maybe you should go resurrect a more quality bracket, this one is missing a competitive edge for you troopers.

I've spent the last two years of MoP playing 29s with a close group of friends. We aren't stopping just because a bunch of welfare cases joined our bracket.

Really not sure why you can't get that through your head. We'll continue to play 29s just like we have been, while also completely ignoring the clutter Blizzard has shoved our way.

Seems like you'd benefit from finding a new bracket to play, since it's the F2Ps who keep making these threads to whine about 29s.

 

[Neon]

I've spent the last two years of MoP playing 29s with a close group of friends. We aren't stopping just because a bunch of welfare cases joined our bracket.

Really not sure why you can't get that through your head. We'll continue to play 29s just like we have been, while also completely ignoring the clutter Blizzard has shoved our way.

Seems like you'd benefit from finding a new bracket to play, since it's the F2Ps who keep making these threads to whine about 29s.

Have fun being in a bunch of clutter, I don't see the fun in it.

 

[Kincaide]

Seems like you'd benefit from finding a new bracket to play, since it's the F2Ps who keep making these threads to whine about 29s.

This thread was actually made to -encourage- people to play with the 29s. I know you guys have co-opted the thread for your own purposes now, but even if you can't respect the thread's original intent, at least don't misrepresent it.

 

[willix]

This thread was actually made to -encourage- people to play with the 29s. I know you guys have co-opted the thread for your own purposes now, but even if you can't respect the thread's original intent, at least don't misrepresent it.

Yes, the thread was made to encourage F2Ps to play against 29, but then all these people come here to complain about 29s. So we come here to defend ourselves.

Have fun being in a bunch of clutter, I don't see the fun in it.

Oh wow, you totally got me.

Sick burn, dude.

WTB icepack.

 

[Kincaide]

but then all these people come here to complain about 29s

If by "all these people" you mean "Neon" then ok, but as I've already said, the F2P community at large can't be hung on one person's opinion.

Also please keep in mind that the F2P forum -is-, after all, the appropriate place for F2Ps to vent about things. Conversations that involve the whole bracket, like this thread has turned into, really belong on the bracket-wide forum, i.e. the 20-29 forum. If y'all want to counterargue what Neon said (keeping in mind, again, that the majority of us don't agree with him) then that would be the fully appropriate place to do so.

 

[Bloodinhoo]

Don't argue with Willix. He's the village troll for 29s/39s etc. Look up Willy on any of those brackets and you'll see pages and pages and pages of people bitching at him. He's a nice person for sure, but his beliefs in twinking border somewhere between strange and fictional.

Gonna remember that. Dood is completely delusional.

 

[Shaket]

I realize that you are lost beyond reason, so let me try to find you a map. Yes, I know the impact that the removal of skirms had - but that was in WRATH. All of those brackets were still flourishing after Wrath - it was the removal of twinks from basic leveling BGs that was the death knell of most of the brackets.

4 people? Really? This is when you know you're wrong - when you try to claim that a bracket would be fine because FOUR people are in it. Good lord.

Finally, name-drop Yoube? I don't even... youbeezy pls help. I don't know what to say.

PS: Do you even know what Yoube, Chops and Rise do? Hint: I made them come play F2Ps with me and that's ALL Chops does, that's what Yoube did (although granted we keep flaking out on each other so HB can take the credit for keeping him here) for the most part and it's what Rise did before he quit.

You didn't notice twinks quitting because they couldn't arena, I did, fine, whatever. You also didn't notice the sharp decline after skirms were removed, thats cool too. I'm curious to know what twinks you were actually playing in wrath, 29s, 39s, 49s, whatever, because maybe you were playing in atlantis or the moon & maybe twinks didnt arena there, but losing skirms was kind of a big deal for twinks that liked to arena.

 

[Achmed]

So we got 5 pops/year!! 29's had strong community! Yay!

Now we got pops each day/every 15 mins or so cuz the poor f2p's invaded our bracket!

Gtfo f2p's we don't need you! We want our 5 pops/year back!!

...now that's the message in a delusional world from some delusional kids

And yeah, [MENTION=8138]Kincaide[/MENTION] is right, the gap between 29's and f2p's in BG's atm is so small that actually BG's are enjoyable

 

[Neon]

If by "all these people" you mean "Neon" then ok, but as I've already said, the F2P community at large can't be hung on one person's opinion.

Also please keep in mind that the F2P forum -is-, after all, the appropriate place for F2Ps to vent about things. Conversations that involve the whole bracket, like this thread has turned into, really belong on the bracket-wide forum, i.e. the 20-29 forum. If y'all want to counterargue what Neon said (keeping in mind, again, that the majority of us don't agree with him) then that would be the fully appropriate place to do so.

I just spoke the truth. Why is everyone pretending, you all know, stop being a bunch of sheep.

 

[Achmed]

I just spoke the truth. Why is everyone pretending, you all know, stop being a bunch of sheep.

All of us speak the truth, but im the only one speaking the REAL UNALTERED truth