Healer gear

[Hashbrowns]

[MENTION=18826]Bop[/MENTION] after a conclusion like that, I'm happy to let the matter rest. I see more practical applications of one perspective, others think they see more practical applications of a different perspective, and that tends to always be true between human beings. When the majority of people ignore this and propose that "Way X is right!" I feel obligated to make the case for Way Y. Now that all the cases are made, I'm going to go make dinner.

Indeed, this isn't solveable lol. But it's been fun

 

[Zehj]

That's an oversimplification, it doesn't take into account how exceedingly rare it would be that someone is dying, and you landing a heal less than one-tenth of one second faster would have saved them. Whether is you or someone else. In fact, as the healer you are getting targeted, and you're trying to heal multiple friendlies including yourself, and the time it takes just to mouseover a different raid frame is greater than the speed advantage of haste. Again, this is a matter of not understanding the disparity between the technical increase and the practical advantage.

That's the only way to look at it, its a waste of time to discuss specifics of something completely situational

I would rather output more healing as a healer, just like I would rather do more dmg as a dmg role

 

[Kincaide]

Spinal Tap - "These go to eleven...." - YouTube

 

[Spiriel]

Somehow though I still don't think I'm making my point clear. Haste -technically- yields more healing, in the same sense that driving 60.1mph will -technically- get you somewhere faster than going 60mph. My point is that the practical difference--that is to say, the actual situations where that infinitesimally faster cast will actually matter--is so impossibly small that for all intents and purposes, it doesn't exist. It's theorycrafting on a microscopic scale and doesn't practically compare to the number of situations where having an additional 230, or even 360, hit points would make a much bigger difference.

A third example: if I have $5000.00 and you have $5000.01, you are technically richer than me, but practically speaking there is practically nothing you can buy for that penny.

Your examples arent that precise in this case. You dont drive 60.1mph but rather 62.4mph or get $5200 which is a difference (for the "4%"-example @start of thread).
It is a matter of perspective. For you it is an infinitesimal faster cast but it also still is 4% faster Castingspeed and Global CD Reduction. Also the command for your next cast isn´t dependable of when you end the first cast but rather that litte timeframe-thingi which WoW grants you (to even out latency-dunno whats it called). So whatever you feel or not feel the difference of .06 seconds, WoW will give you this hastebuff.
I absolutely understand your point in the meaninglessness of .06 seconds in the long run but wouldnt you skill a talent which grants you 4% relative faster casting + reduction of gcd?

My example is from a holydin-pov: When battleing a hunter (me or assisting a teammember) I have to get denouncedebuff (1,44) on him, tank his dmg and then heal me up with Shock and FH (2x 1,44) to get a little comfortzone and think about fight, flee or heal. In this case it doesnt matter if I start healing with 200 or 500HP, I have to start healing no matter what and I gladly take ~0,2 seconds for these 3 casts of mine

I love haste to death (literally) but I also see 2 valid points still missing in this tread:
- psychological component of facing an enemy with 22xx HP or 19xx HP
- the 2 biggest threats atm to healers are rogues and hunters. both can, will and should attack me first even when battling in groups so do I rely on the chance teammates will support me (in pugs) when attacked or will I go full HP?

 

[Baumbart]

Completely agree with what Kincaide's saying. I'd rather live long enough to be able to reapply bubble than have the "advantage" of a marginally faster cast time. If I can't heal up with the cast times I normally have, then the few milliseconds that haste provides sure as hell won't be enough either. While bubble + stam stacked (within reason) health pool could mean the difference between dat rogue running out of juice and dat rogue killing you.

 

[Chykcha]

So everyone in this thread thinks that his opinion is the best and so valuable, well... Here are my five rubles too :3

My point of view is entirely from pure glasscannon damage dealer, whose job is to control BG, eliminate healers, destroy FC. I ressurect to die in a minute, my Hp is on par with spanish JAJAJA, I hate healers adn they hate me.

IMHO sta>any other stat in a game versus good DD, be it rogue, war, hunter, mage. My point is really easy: the more HP you got the more chances there are that you will survive burst during silence (4 moth, 5 kick, 6 lock secs of pure silence, no other CC). Quite often there is a situation of FC+2 healers, it's very important to have a lot of HP here since I'll scatter one healer and silence another, with 2 good DD on your back it's hard or next to impossible to survive, if scatter was not trinked even one hunter can kill healer or both of them. There were numerous situations then my enemy (pure 1v1) had 50-150 hp after silence+scatter (now I'm BE with another silence, but that's another story) and was instahealing to at least 15-20% and since i'm out of focus to 100% in the next few seconds, if healer is <~2200hp he will not survive even one hunter, not talking about 2 DD.

Haste/int>sta only in PVE or PVP with mid farming where DD are not conserned with healers, otherwise I'd take sta over all anytime, heals are quite strong without boost from haste/int/crit, BIS DD can't kill BIS healer without CC abilities so healer need to make sure he survives.

 

[Goesid]

Thanks, Here is the raw dump from my text file:

those are wrong stats on tome

Completely agree with what Kincaide's saying. I'd rather live long enough to be able to reapply bubble than have the "advantage" of a marginally faster cast time. If I can't heal up with the cast times I normally have, then the few milliseconds that haste provides sure as hell won't be enough either. While bubble + stam stacked (within reason) health pool could mean the difference between dat rogue running out of juice and dat rogue killing you.

So everyone in this thread thinks that his opinion is the best and so valuable, well... Here are my five rubles too :3

My point of view is entirely from pure glasscannon damage dealer, whose job is to control BG, eliminate healers, destroy FC. I ressurect to die in a minute, my Hp is on par with spanish JAJAJA, I hate healers adn they hate me.

IMHO sta>any other stat in a game versus good DD, be it rogue, war, hunter, mage. My point is really easy: the more HP you got the more chances there are that you will survive burst during silence (4 moth, 5 kick, 6 lock secs of pure silence, no other CC). Quite often there is a situation of FC+2 healers, it's very important to have a lot of HP here since I'll scatter one healer and silence another, with 2 good DD on your back it's hard or next to impossible to survive, if scatter was not trinked even one hunter can kill healer or both of them. There were numerous situations then my enemy (pure 1v1) had 50-150 hp after silence+scatter (now I'm BE with another silence, but that's another story) and was instahealing to at least 15-20% and since i'm out of focus to 100% in the next few seconds, if healer is <~2200hp he will not survive even one hunter, not talking about 2 DD.

Haste/int>sta only in PVE or PVP with mid farming where DD are not conserned with healers, otherwise I'd take sta over all anytime, heals are quite strong without boost from haste/int/crit, BIS DD can't kill BIS healer without CC abilities so healer need to make sure he survives.

Are you two stacking stamina on your dps classes aswell? Seeing how if you have more hp you do more dps.

 

[Poparms]

stamina also has the benefit of deterring damage classes from attacking you since most of the bracket just want to see OMG SUPER LEET SUPER HIGH DAMAGE!!!!1111!!!!!

why attack 2k+ hp healer when i can hit a 1500 hp no boa druid

 

[Goesid]

stamina also has the benefit of deterring damage classes from attacking you since most of the bracket just want to see OMG SUPER LEET SUPER HIGH DAMAGE!!!!1111!!!!!

why attack 2k+ hp healer when i can hit a 1500 hp no boa druid

you will do more damage on 2.2k hp lock than a 1.5k hp warrior...

 

[Mesikämmen]

you will do more damage on 2.2k hp lock than a 1.5k hp warrior...

WTB def stance for lock ;_; Or even fucken demon armor xd

 

[Revlo]

This thread moved pretty fast and I don't think I kept up. I missed the part about using the haste trinket as well as the tome, belt, and cloak. The gear sets I've largely seen, and was referring to in my prior post, only use the haste from the tome, belt, and cloak. In my experience I don't think I'd be comfortable dropping either the Insignia or AGM. What are the thoughts from both sides on that setup?

 

[Baumbart]

Are you two stacking stamina on your dps classes aswell? Seeing how if you have more hp you do more dps.

Dying as DPS doesn't have remotely the same effects as dying as healer. Tell me how those milliseconds you gain from using haste gear have any actual bearing on your survivability (and by extension survivability of the people you heal). One or two additional casts the entire bg might look good on paper but in reality they don't mean shit.

 

[Goesid]

Dying as DPS doesn't have remotely the same effects as dying as healer. Tell me how those milliseconds you gain from using haste gear have any actual bearing on your survivability (and by extension survivability of the people you heal). One or two additional casts the entire bg might look good on paper but in reality they don't mean shit.

Tell me how those milliseconds you gain from using stamina gear have any actual bearing upon someone elses survivability. 0 additional casts per bg might look dogshit on paper but in reality you're stupid.

 

[Baumbart]

Tell me how those milliseconds you gain from using stamina gear have any actual bearing upon someone elses survivability. 0 additional casts per bg might look dogshit on paper but in reality you're stupid.

What casts? Dead healer casts no heals.

 

[Goesid]

What casts? Dead healer casts no heals.

100 hp isn't going to save you in any situation a haste using healer isn't gonna survive aswell.

 

[Hashbrowns]

This thread moved pretty fast and I don't think I kept up. I missed the part about using the haste trinket as well as the tome, belt, and cloak. The gear sets I've largely seen, and was referring to in my prior post, only use the haste from the tome, belt, and cloak. In my experience I don't think I'd be comfortable dropping either the Insignia or AGM. What are the thoughts from both sides on that setup?

So TLDR:
Haste yields the most healing done. Bottom line, there's no question about that. There's math to prove it.

Replace stats with Stamina until you are at a comfortable level based on your experiences. THIS IS DIFFERENT PER GAME, PER COMP, PER PLAYER. There's no mathematical way to arrive at that conclusion.

People argue over THEIR EXPERIENCES and what THEY FEEL IS RIGHT. There's no math behind it and there never can be. It's PvP.

QED:
Until people except the math for what it is this will continue to be "Well this one time I saved someone with .006 seconds!" "Or the hunter hit me and I had 100 health!" And no broader conclusion can be reached from individual RNG situations.

But good luck

 

[Mesikämmen]

What casts? Dead healer casts no heals.

A stam stacked healer who dies because he can't keep his teammates up casts no heals either

So TLDR:
Haste yields the most healing done. Bottom line, there's no question about that. There's math to prove it.

Replace stats with Stamina until you are at a comfortable level based on your experiences.

qft

 

[Baumbart]

100 hp isn't going to save you in any situation a haste using healer isn't gonna survive aswell.

You benefit from the additional health every time you heal back to full. You only really benefit from haste the way you're trying to push it in a theoretical environment where reaction time or multitude of other factors don't play any role.

 

[Goesid]

You benefit from the additional health every time you heal back to full. You only really benefit from haste the way you're trying to push it in a theoretical environment where reaction time or multitude of other factors don't play any role.

Everytime you cast a heal you benefit from haste since you cast it faster...

So your argument here is that it's nice taking longer time healing youself since you cast slower and it takes more heals to get the job done while your team dies around you?
Great job dude.

 

[Kincaide]

those are wrong stats on tome

If so, provide the correct stats and do something more constructive than just being contradictory. I pulled all stats for all pieces directly from Lil's Scaling Guide. If that guide is wrong, please see her to correct it.

100 hp isn't going to save you in any situation a haste using healer isn't gonna survive aswell.

It's 240 or 360 hp, not 100, please read the thread. And I disagree with your statement here, you've provided nothing to support this claim. The number of actual situations encountered where landing a single heal less than .1 seconds faster than you did would have turned the game around, are logically and obviously next to nil compared with the number of situations where having 240 or 360 more HP would have helped you not only survive, but in many cases deterred a lone attacker from trying to take you out in the first place.

I was content to walk away satisfied with the conclusion that everyone's entitled to their opinion, but you keep wanting to assail this opinion despite the fact that the argument for survivability has math, logic, and experience on its side.