19 Rogue spec

[Sҫarlet]

Nope he's Acr. I can give him back to you if you want to play him again btw

No.. the grandfathered hunter I gave you was another.. this is the one I'm talking about..

Qualixx @ Rexxar - Community - World of Warcraft

 

[~Iz~]

hah wow... yeh, I'm still on rexxar

 

[~Iz~]

Ebayed got on earlier today I saw. He's still on Suramar in Use the Boost. I'm not sure if it was him though, cuz I sapped him a couple times to wave at him but he attacked me anyway... his hunter is still all TBC'd out

 

[Sҫarlet]

hah wow... yeh, I'm still on rexxar

lol.. so noowwww you know who i am?

 

[~Iz~]

yeh, it's definitely been a long time

 

[~Iz~]

I want to make another hunter.. but really don't feel like getting the AGMs and shit...

 

[Sneaky]

Subterfuge:​

• Offense Utility: When an EFC has several stacks it may be possible to burst him down with 2 ambushes before his defense can notice. However this only works against a non-kiting EFC

You forgot the part where the EFC has to be a retard to not turn his back to you once the first ambush goes off. You also give Nightstalker less credit because it's one of the main reasons for being able to keep on kiting EFC's and get repicks if needed. For example with Nightstalker you'd be able to follow a kiting EFC (let's say a shaman) and keep opening on him and keeping pressure, whereas with Subterfuge you'd have to predict where he'll go next and cut there and wait.

Honestly if you allow Subterfuge rogues to 2x Ambush you all the time you're pretty terrible. It's very easy to turn your back after the first Ambush and prevent the other one.

 

[Sҫarlet]

[/LIST]
You forgot the part where the EFC has to be a retard to not turn his back to you once the first ambush goes off. You also give Nightstalker less credit because it's one of the main reasons for being able to keep on kiting EFC's and get repicks if needed. For example with Nightstalker you'd be able to follow a kiting EFC (let's say a shaman) and keep opening on him and keeping pressure, whereas with Subterfuge you'd have to predict where he'll go next and cut there and wait.

Honestly if you allow Subterfuge rogues to 2x Ambush you all the time you're pretty terrible. It's very easy to turn your back after the first Ambush and prevent the other one.

says the keyboard turner
you make it sound like it's difficult to get behind someone's back, and it isn't the 1st time either.

 

[Mocha]

[/LIST]You forgot the part where the EFC has to be a retard to not turn his back to you once the first ambush goes off. You also give Nightstalker less credit because it's one of the main reasons for being able to keep on kiting EFC's and get repicks if needed. For example with Nightstalker you'd be able to follow a kiting EFC (let's say a shaman) and keep opening on him and keeping pressure, whereas with Subterfuge you'd have to predict where he'll go next and cut there and wait.

Honestly if you allow Subterfuge rogues to 2x Ambush you all the time you're pretty terrible. It's very easy to turn your back after the first Ambush and prevent the other one.

I see what you're saying but it's the same concept as opening with ambush followed by backstab... If they're in motion when you open simply save your opener for when you're basically on top of their character. By the time they switch to travel form even your energy will be regenerated to the point where you'll get another ambush right away.

Also being able to sap someone, kick the healer while in stealth still, open on the efc all while being DOTTED is much better than having mobility.

If you leave combat once no matter how many dots you're still guaranteed at least one ambush and in most cases a sap.

However with subterfuge, bubble gum, boots, and many other things drop your stealth by accident. But you can use a crystal focus while in stealth and remain in stealth too.

 

[Satïn]

I see what you're saying but it's the same concept as opening with ambush followed by backstab... If they're in motion when you open simply save your opener for when you're basically on top of their character. By the time they switch to travel form even your energy will be regenerated to the point where you'll get another ambush right away.

Also being able to sap someone, kick the healer while in stealth still, open on the efc all while being DOTTED is much better than having mobility.

If you leave combat once no matter how many dots you're still guaranteed at least one ambush and in most cases a sap.

However with subterfuge, bubble gum, boots, and many other things drop your stealth by accident. But you can use a crystal focus while in stealth and remain in stealth too.

/Thread
Im pretty sure boots breaking stealth in subterfuge is a bug though right? it didnt use to do that only recently.

Yeah just checked the WoW forum its just overflowing with reports of subterfuge breaking stealth at the wrong or innapropriate times.

 

[Dramatized]

Personally I like subterfuge. Simply because giving rogues mobility in stealth was a terrible idea imo and I hate it. Makes the game more of a challenge. And I tend to play more D instead of O...

Check out my rogue guide on Twinking.net! Also text me when you find out more about Mug'Lawl

soo you're saying he should pick what's "more challenging"? aka not pick the best lol

 

[Mocha]

No I'm saying I play what I have more fun with, a challenge. He should play what he finds most fun for him, not what people say is "best"

 

[Dramatized]

No I'm saying I play what I have more fun with, a challenge. He should play what he finds most fun for him, not what people say is "best"

but didn't he ask what's best?

 

[Mocha]

but didn't he ask what's best?

No, he asked what everyone was choosing and I gave him information on both since it was already answered that everyone for the most part is specced into Nightstalker.

 

[saxxon]

so explain how nightstalker is useful in a game with little to no offense coming to help you? youre literally sitting on ramp to roof by yourself for 10 minutes and no ones coming.
subterfuge can have an effect in every opener, invisible kicks.. being able to ambush AND THEN sap an alternative target. ambush into a SnD is pretty nice as well and u can get a few more white swings up before they realise youre on them.
combat stealthing with a dot is also hugely effective in subterfuge with a lot more leighway than the other specs, giving you a huge amount of time to land a resap even between DoT ticks.

and i still think nightstalkers the best talent, just pointing out that subterfuge has its uses, especially on a team without a kiting D.. i know since MoP came out kiting Ds have been predominent but there are still going to be games where the efc stays put on roof. also to honestly say you cant get 2 ambushes on a subterfuge isp retty ridic, if theres a mob of people all on an EFC even with backstrafing you can get behind him again if your teams slowing them, sure vs a FC solo it may be harder but again its still very doable and iv pulled off plenty of double ambush subterfuges

just my 12 dollars on the sitch i still think nightstalker is a better WSG talent, subterfuge wipes the floor with it in arena though

edit: just gunna say that most games are better suited for night stalker, yet i usually go in talentless and judge from the class comp whether subterfuge will be worth it or not that game.

 

[Kitn]

i think shadow focus is best spec for wsg

 

[Sneaky]

says the keyboard turner
you make it sound like it's difficult to get behind someone's back, and it isn't the 1st time either.

Thank you for expressing your lack of intelligence. My point wasn't about the difficulty of getting behind one's target -- it was about people being too retarded to backstrafe after the first Ambush.

When you learn reading comprehension then you can try and throw insults at people. Until then, stay lost.

 

[Beastly]

so explain how nightstalker is useful in a game with little to no offense coming to help you? youre literally sitting on ramp to roof by yourself for 10 minutes and no ones coming.
subterfuge can have an effect in every opener, invisible kicks.. being able to ambush AND THEN sap an alternative target. ambush into a SnD is pretty nice as well and u can get a few more white swings up before they realise youre on them.
combat stealthing with a dot is also hugely effective in subterfuge with a lot more leighway than the other specs, giving you a huge amount of time to land a resap even between DoT ticks.

and i still think nightstalkers the best talent, just pointing out that subterfuge has its uses, especially on a team without a kiting D.. i know since MoP came out kiting Ds have been predominent but there are still going to be games where the efc stays put on roof. also to honestly say you cant get 2 ambushes on a subterfuge isp retty ridic, if theres a mob of people all on an EFC even with backstrafing you can get behind him again if your teams slowing them, sure vs a FC solo it may be harder but again its still very doable and iv pulled off plenty of double ambush subterfuges

just my 12 dollars on the sitch i still think nightstalker is a better WSG talent, subterfuge wipes the floor with it in arena though

edit: just gunna say that most games are better suited for night stalker, yet i usually go in talentless and judge from the class comp whether subterfuge will be worth it or not that game.

Subterfuge has plenty of excellent uses in theory but in practice (opposing anyone who isn't a complete retard) it kind of licks balls. Invisible kicks sounds impressive but good luck pulling them off when you move as fast as turtle with arthritis.

If you're on a team with zero offense. Chances are you're not gonna be returning regardless of spec. Unless the Debuff is huge of course.

 

[Mocha]

Invisible kicks sounds impressive but good luck pulling them off when you move as fast as turtle with arthritis.

I thought this as well... but the more i tried subterfuge the more i realized how easy it is to kick, ambush and sap a target... happens more than you'd think

 

[Beastly]

I thought this as well... but the more i tried subterfuge the more i realized how easy it is to kick, ambush and sap a target... happens more than you'd think

sap yes, since it is ranged... kick, not so much.

I'm sure it happens occasionally but its fairly unusual for an fc / healer to stand on top of one another stationary while a rogue double ambushes and interrupts them.