Who is more skilled: arena players or bg players?
- Thread starter wicktick
- Start date
Tiger
Legend
It honestly takes more skill to be a good bg player. There are a lot more jumps, plays, 1 v. X's, various objectives, map awareness, etc. Especially in this bracket, it's way harder to become a bg monster as compared to an arena monster. 3s take some skill but 2s is a joke even at max level and this bracket is no different.
Bop
Remember the Treeline
This is a bit misleading.
If you mean PuG battlegrounds, then there is no contest - the best PuG players tend to need to learn and perfect a lot of skills to perform well in Arenas, while the best Arena players generally only need to learn a few things to succeed (as best as one person can) in a PuG.
If you mean competitive battlegrounds, then the playing field is really level between the two.
I will say that at endgame, RBG rating was generally considered to be easier to obtain than Arena rating (I.E., 2200 RBG player, 2000 Arena player), indicating that perhaps the skills in arena are slightly more difficult to master (and thus skillful, by that definition) than in a competitive battleground environment.
Although I will submit that this endgame hypothetical might not apply to level 20, although the case would need to be very well argued to convince me otherwise.
If you mean PuG battlegrounds, then there is no contest - the best PuG players tend to need to learn and perfect a lot of skills to perform well in Arenas, while the best Arena players generally only need to learn a few things to succeed (as best as one person can) in a PuG.
If you mean competitive battlegrounds, then the playing field is really level between the two.
I will say that at endgame, RBG rating was generally considered to be easier to obtain than Arena rating (I.E., 2200 RBG player, 2000 Arena player), indicating that perhaps the skills in arena are slightly more difficult to master (and thus skillful, by that definition) than in a competitive battleground environment.
Although I will submit that this endgame hypothetical might not apply to level 20, although the case would need to be very well argued to convince me otherwise.
Mesikämmen
pwner
With the low amount of abilities (and especially cc), combined with the absolutely retarded burst which makes it easy to literally global someone's full HP pool within half a warstomp, I'd say atm bgs definitely have a higher skillcap. Just my two cents though
Wizkidone
Started from the bottom
There are plenty of BG players I admire and respect. They're awesome at what they do. However, bop summed it up pretty well. To go off the competitive side, I've seen arena players enter premades and win versus experienced bg veterans. I've yet to see the reverse (for example winning an arena tournament) from bg veterans. I feel like that says plenty.
^This makes a lot of sense, from a completely logical standpoint.
Tiger
Legend
I agree with you to some extent, but you aren't going to learn how to FC over night because you are decent at arenas. There are a limited amount of CDs in this bracket, and for the most part it is pretty easy to figure out arena. Not to mention there are so many tools now to track debuffs, CDs, trinkets, etc. it may be true that at max level it takes a little more skill to be a top arena player, this is not true for this bracket. With such a small amount of CDs to trade, it is much simpler to navigate an arena match. There are certain comps that will face roll everything else regardless of how "skilled" you are at your class. This is much less pronounced in bgs.
Fael
Believer
It is true that an arena player may not be able to learn how to FC overnight, but that only applies to that single role. All those tools that are available in arena also applies to Bgs now. And regarding your certain comps that can face roll everything, I'll just have MLP as an example. You cannot simply pickup that comp and be face rolling everyone. You must have excellent communication with your teammates and knowing when to swap off and such.
OP
OP
wicktick
Legend
One thing I'm curious to know is if any of you who voted for bg players have played a healer in a 10v10. I have on a few separate occasions, and I honestly rate the experience as more boring than farming sfk for hours on end. It's completely brain dead, there's no positioning involved other than hanging back as far as possible and juking has surprisingly little influence on who lives and dies.
10v10s in general are much less focused on individual performance (read: player skill) than 3s. #Neon , I think I understand why you would say that adding more players would increase the complexity of a match because there are more variables to account for. However, you're completely mistaken because as the number of players increases individual skill becomes much less of a determinant than general strategy and coordination. 3 is the perfect number of teammates for highly skilled coordination and play, as you add more and more people to a fight the tactics that make a difference become much simpler to execute.
10v10s in general are much less focused on individual performance (read: player skill) than 3s. #Neon , I think I understand why you would say that adding more players would increase the complexity of a match because there are more variables to account for. However, you're completely mistaken because as the number of players increases individual skill becomes much less of a determinant than general strategy and coordination. 3 is the perfect number of teammates for highly skilled coordination and play, as you add more and more people to a fight the tactics that make a difference become much simpler to execute.
Tiger
Legend
There's certain classes that just aren't viable at all in arenas. For example, discs and rshams perform way better than someone playing an hpal. I'm not even going to bring up Ferals. There is a reason they are banned in most arena tournaments, and it's precicely because they face roll everything. Playing MLP offers the most CC available in the bracket and you may be right that it takes some amount of communication to chain CCs, etc. this doesn't teach you how to play objectively in a bg. In fact a lot of the arena players I know tend to derp mid.
I have a lot of respect for good arena players, but there's a reason almost none are on any "best of" threads. Their skills don't translate as well as they think to bgs.
Neon
Gang shit
or maybe since all 10 players have individual skill vs other 10 players that are individually skilled it does matter?
Phrontistery
i was making waves u was surfing in 'em
I'm not going to vote on this one, valid points have been raised by both parties however I feel like there isn't a black and white answer
Actually nevermind, what am I talking about. Arena.
Actually nevermind, what am I talking about. Arena.
Spiriel
Legend
Since I only play healers I go with that statement
Its not that fun to see druids everywhere rushing just past you to flag or with flag. You just have the time to dispel some dots or hot once and then you are alone again, deciding to follow them knowing they will prob. outrun you or going efc hoping that your support helps killing him fast enough.
But with the current state of BGs I feel a constant lazyness in me which makes me play slow and kinda undedicated. I never rly have this in arena so Id like to compare the topic "skill" with "dedication" and here Arena shines over BG.
Fael
Believer
To say that certain classes aren't viable at all in arenas is also applied to Bgs. Discs and rshams outperform hpal in both arenas and Bgs. Ferals are incredibly strong in both arenas and Bgs. I have yet seen another MLP have any sort of success whatsoever. And also Wizkid has been in a best of thread, so has Flynn and Watergun. And another reason why "arena players" may not see the best of threads is because Bgs are just flat out boring. And I'd agree that arena players tend to derp in mid, because I've been there. Maybe if the competition wasn't so lopsided there would be incentive to compete in Bgs. My 2cents of course.
Also, good players can translate from an arena setting to a bg setting seemlessly and vice Versa.
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OP
OP
wicktick
Legend
Wizkidone
Started from the bottom
I get where you are trying to go with this, but that's not it at all. The great majority of arena players, surprisingly, only q arena! They find bgs boring, never q them, and therefore arent exposed to the voting populace of TI (which tends to be heavily bg based)
Neon
Gang shit
um yeah bgs are more skilled than arenas its obvious endless possiblilites
Tiger
Legend
The point I was trying to make was that you can win bgs despite the other team having Ferals, 29s, etc. This isn't an attack against you or Flynn or wiz or water or anyone for that matter. I know you're good and so does most of this community. I voted for wiz in that thread. What we're discussing is how much skill it takes to stand out in bgs vs. arenas. In my opinion it requires a lot more work to stand out in a bg, especially pugging. It is easier to get carried in an arena team.
Fael
Believer
Hey, I'm not trying to attack you either, just saying my opinions, and you're entitled to yours. I'd disagree that it's easier to get carried by an arena team. Say 2 experienced arena players and a pug face off against another team. There is so much more weight on the 2 players to off set the single pug who is inexperienced. Any error, even in the slightest can mean the death of their team. I'd say it's harder to carry the pug and that's from my personal experience. In my opinion it's pretty easy to get carried in bg pugs. There are also plenty of good players who don't get recognized despite their efforts, but they are still good.