What is the win ratio?

[Chops]

You are suggesting that Blizzard's acknowledgement of a Horde advantage is only with regards to "end game" (as you put it), and not to the greater whole of the game, the 20 bracket included? I have not heard that take on it before.

Acknowledging (as Rise pointed out) that crossfaction play is not indicative of Blizz addressing faction imbalance (they do that through nerfs/buffs, not rewriting the entire way the instance que functions)...

So what? What does population (end game or game wide) have to do with win ratios in 20s?

While a clear population advantage does not always lead to winning, it certainly helps-- Especially when one side can't even field a full team, let alone two or more.

Ah. This is the whole of your position. Horde have more players, therefore they must have more twinks, therefore they must win more.

None of this, of course, backed up with anything more than your *feeling* that you lose a disproportionate number of games. I'm sorry man. We've addressed this.

 

[Kirise]

"less fun" is a glib summary -- and I don't want to de-rail the thread here -- but as I said, Alliance twinking is dead during the early morning hours. The Horde players have both the opportunity and incentive to play as Alliance toons due to greater rewards and short que times, but they choose not to do so.

Fair enough. I don't play in the early morning hours, so if that time sees the 20 bracket shrink to the point where a couple of Horde premades dominate games, that will indeed seriously affect win ratio during that time.

You are suggesting that Blizzard's acknowledgement of a Horde advantage is only with regards to "end game" (as you put it), and not to the greater whole of the game, the 20 bracket included? I have not heard that take on it before.

Blizzard's acknowledgement of anything rarely goes beyond endgame, and when it does, it's because something non-current affects the design of current content e.g. Blizzard breaking Crusader and fixing Heroic TBC gems for Mage Tower timewalking. Artifact weapons and some incorrectly scaled gear are the only things I can think of for this expansion that Blizzard fixed for non-endgame.

While a clear population advantage does not always lead to winning, it certainly helps-- Especially when one side can't even field a full team, let alone two or more.

I would have thought so, too, but the only time this is true is when the population is so small that a strong faction simply needs the bodies to play against. Which, to your earlier point, may be exactly what's going on with 20s in the early morning hours. Once both sides have "enough" players (whatever that threshold is), then even a large faction imbalance doesn't impact win ratios, as the numbers posted by others show.

39s never got off the ground this expansion because they never reached a core critical mass. Most 39s rolled Alliance so they could play with others while waiting for Horde to muster. 39s saw easily 15 Alliance players ready for games, to the point that they did a couple of Alliance-only wargames. We never got more than 4-5 Horde 39s ready for games. 9.2.5 may change the prospects for 39s with cross-faction wargames, but the underlying issue remains -- when too few people play, the players tend to organize on one faction.

This is a long way of saying that you're right in the context of early morning games. If 20s simply don't have the bodies in the early morning hours (and they likely don't), then win ratios will favor the organized side. However, I think you're trying to say (correct me if not) that since more people went Horde for endgame this expansion, the shrunken morning 20 population would of course devolve into Horde premades stomping everything. That's the part I don't buy. A larger Horde endgame population doesn't necessarily correlate with a larger 20 Horde twink population, and for an activity as small as random battlegrounds (even for the 20s bracket), it could have gone either way, just as it did for 39s.

 

[JadeFire]

Again, the topic title is the issue.

As Chops stated my DK has a positive win ratio... if you would ask me I would never think so. The amount of games I just spirit AFK and just play a BG on another 20 while I wait for a alliance premade to get tired of farming HKs like dumb children, or go get food/do anything else while I wait seems staggering to me... but, none the less there it is - positive. And I RARELY premade.

"What is your win ratio versus other premades - while you are in a premade" is what it should say.

And again, I don't think that is going to tell you want you really want to know. What you are really asking is "why won't the cool kids let me join their premade!!!! AHHHHWAWAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAA!"

 

[Vail]

Ah. This is the whole of your position. Horde have more players, therefore they must have more twinks, therefore they must win more.

None of this, of course, backed up with anything more than your *feeling* that you lose a disproportionate number of games. I'm sorry man. We've addressed this.

Let me put it this way, at the time of my first post, we had 3 twinks online, in the WHOLE Alliance community. To be fair to your argument, it is possible that other Alliance twinks not associated with Xpoff were also trying to play, but it would difficult to find/group and que with them... By contrast, the Horde had two different premades running this morning, as well as a few solo quers. It has been this way for a while now, this is nothing new.

You can't tell me that doesn't give them an advantage.

 

[Chops]

You can't tell me that doesn't give them an advantage.

I can tell you that it gave them an advantage this particular morning on this particular day. But I'll also tell you that the OP wasnt asking about win ratios during the sunrise hours of Feb 15th. Theyre asking for overall win ratios.

Zooming in on any one particular session is gonna necessarily skew your numbers and experience. If someones asking for overall win ratios, you have to zoom out.

if the question was "hey, Im going to be playing early mornings US because I live in australia but wanna twink 20s with an active community" then your early morning experience would be incredibly valuable! but then I can also look at folks like Icehawk and Chey (both early morning alliance Aussies) and see positive win rates that dont deviate from the expected twink norm.

So again, I dunno what to tell you man. But unless your twink is the odd man out with like a sub 40% win rate...

 

[Vail]

I can tell you that it gave them an advantage this particular morning on this particular day.

Oh boy...

If someones asking for overall win ratios, you have to zoom out.

mhm... But not so far that we generalize, right? lol

folks like Icehawk and Chey (both early morning alliance Aussies)

Unless Icehawk is Bloodhawk, I don't recognize ether of those name. So, I am going to assume they are OC... OC realms are the opposite of NA, where Alliance is much more prevalent.

 

[Chops]

mhm... But not so far that we generalize, right? lol

zooming out involves taking a generalized view of the bracket as a whole.

Unless Icehawk is Bloodhawk, I don't recognize ether of those name.

yes thats him and Chey plays on KT.

Im not even sure what you're still trying to say at this point, man.

 

[mirrorbender]

I wish blizz would include random BGs in the new cross faction patch, solely for the placebo effect so that people would stop worrying and complaining about how (insert faction here) runs more premades or has more hunters or more twinks.

 

[JadeFire]

Right now, just watching the tier2/tier3 alliance hunter squad with pocket heal back up... 5 games in a row... its just time of day.

2-3 alliance premades just revolving.

And here is the best thing... they are complaining about it in the games that are taking 10 seconds to win with no actual playing at all... and just keep queing.

You just have to wait till its bed time for them.

*** well hold on now... looks like we have the xp on exploiter all warrior trash squad on... go horde .... what a fucking clown show.

 

[Warglave]

You just have to wait till its bed time for them.

I feel like this sums up the alliance perfectly, since like..... 2004. Just my personal feeling, but can certainly relate.

Also fits the early morning horde "domination" offerings (kiddies have to go to school), as well as exemplifies how there's literally nothing can be done about some people and some timeframes. As has always been in random xpon BGs...

The sample size here is not the entirety. I guess it's impossible to wrap some people's heads around that. /shrug

 

[Chops]

I feel like this sums up the alliance perfectly, since like..... 2004. Just my personal feeling, but can certainly relate.

The standard line has been, for a while now, that carebear soccer dads tend to play alliance and degenerate high school/college kids play horde.

I'm not sure how true that is these days (or ever was) but the popular explanation was alliance would dominate early evening until it was time to get to bed so you could get up for your 9-5, and the horde kids would be getting home from their fast food shifts and queing up till 4am.

 

[Warglave]

that carebear soccer dads tend to play alliance

LOL.

And yes, that explanation of time slots was spot-on my experience as well.

And I personally am biased in that I hate the alliance since vanilla (tho I still play both) and switched hard in TBC. All brackets, due to the little kid "just let them win" mindset I ran into oh so much alliance side... left a bad taste all these years.

But carebear vs degenerate is the perfect sum-up, especially displayed in levelers passing through, I recall.

edit- PLUS alliance paladins were teh WORST.

 

[troublesomesleeper]

*** well hold on now... looks like we have the xp on exploiter all warrior trash squad on... go horde .... what a fucking clown show.

^ I ran into that premade on my horde and alliance twinks. Both experiences were an "ok, this sucks". I don't understand how that is fun - making a 22+ fury warrior just to roll your face across the keyboard, and worse yet have 4 other teammates doing the same thing lol.

IMO horde have an increased numbers of twinks therefore the chances for a queue to pop and have competent twinks on your team vs the alliance pug is to be expected.

Solo queue on both sides is lame.

 

[Celydar]

Again, the topic title is the issue.

As Chops stated my DK has a positive win ratio... if you would ask me I would never think so. The amount of games I just spirit AFK and just play a BG on another 20 while I wait for a alliance premade to get tired of farming HKs like dumb children, or go get food/do anything else while I wait seems staggering to me... but, none the less there it is - positive. And I RARELY premade.

"What is your win ratio versus other premades - while you are in a premade" is what it should say.

And again, I don't think that is going to tell you want you really want to know. What you are really asking is "why won't the cool kids let me join their premade!!!! AHHHHWAWAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAA!"

Lately, I have been playing the hipster Fire mage, on what was an Arcane mage originally, on my trial account server.
It has been challenging to say the least, but I am much better than last couple weeks, in rotation, etc.
Solo Q 90 percent of the time, joined a 4 man on my old Vet server cause they reached out to me and asked if I could run a heal.
So I jumped on my Shadow/Disc priest, and ran Disc. I hate healing, am not that great at it tbh. Way too aggressive.
I try to facetank the entire horde team, no matter what I'm playing, but we won every game, around 6 till people started logging to eat, go do other stuff. It was fun, because healing has always been a challenge for me, we won 100%, but only 1 game was lopsided, a Kotmogu, in a rare exception where the horde didn't have atleast 1 or 2 heals.
Been back on Fire mage since, My teamates from my original Vet server on that 4 man were DH, Druid, and 1 hunter.
We could have all just got on our hunters, or warrs, reached out to 2 Hpals in our circle of friends, and steamrolled.
On my fire mage, my team when I have solo Q'd, which is most of the time, have beaten premades a couple of times.
That is really fun, and satisfying.
I could play more on my Fury/Arms warr, or Surv/Marks hunter, but I don't.
I understand and respect the fact playing in an organized, coordinated group is fun, but it can get old, too.
Could I help coordinate, and participate more 4 man or double Q synced premades, sure;
but I don't find farming the horde gy, and watching the team go from 10 to 6 players enjoyable, as much disdain as I have for the opposite faction. The purpose of PvP is to win, but not at all costs.
Premades vs Pugs is, was and always will be an issue, just hope the bracket population doesn't keep going lower because of it.
I
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But it's not guess work, and while the EXACT number isn't revealed to the playerbase, a clear threshold has been exceeded in the sheer number of Horde players participating in pvp vs Alliance players. This can be seen in multiple ways; the continuous presence of the Horde Mercenary Npc outside Ashran, the near-constant warmode bonuses the Alliance VERY rarely losses access to, and the fact that Horde wait times across all brackets are on average 3-4 times longer than Alliance.

Its gotten to the point that Blizzard has acknowledged that they are going to have to allow cross faction play, because they can't fix the faction imbalance.

Now ofc, I am speaking to sheer numbers, and not win rate directly, but I think it is a safe conclusion to say, the faction that Blizzard acknowledges to be more dedicated to pvp has a distinct advantage in general.

Cross faction PvP saved SWTOR (Star Wars the Old Republic) BG's, They implemented it in 2018 I think.
Empire, was more popular and had population advantages on US, European, and Oceanic servers. (every server basically)
I play exclusively alliance on WoW, in Swtor, I played exclusively Empire.
Q times were getting over 30 mins for a max level BG, lower level brackets wouldn't even pop.
I indicated in a different post regarding how I felt from 11pm PST to around 9am PST, alliance was pretty bad, yeah, time of day matters for sure.
IMHO though many people will dislike cross faction PvP at 1st, it will definitely make PvP more fun and less toxic.
Maybe even increase the dwindling #'s of players PvPing at bracket and end game level as well.

 

[troublesomesleeper]

IMHO though many people will dislike cross faction PvP at 1st, it will definitely make PvP more fun and less toxic.
Maybe even increase the dwindling #'s of players PvPing at bracket and end game level as well.

My view is that cross faction random BGs could be used to fix some of the larger issues. Smaller pools of people on the alliance side (both twinking and endgame). Class and healer stacking - if too many on one faction.... bam shift em to the other faciton, and bingo.

 

[Chops]

My view is that cross faction random BGs could be used to fix some of the larger issues. Smaller pools of people on the alliance side (both twinking and endgame). Class and healer stacking - if too many on one faction.... bam shift em to the other faciton, and bingo.

people would just find something else to whine about and find different excuses to make for why they arent winning as many games as they think they should

 

[Multitotem]

You win some and you lose some. More wins usually cuz you play against levelers more often than a 5man. Both sides

 

[Fang]

Yes, and don't forget to respawn.

 

[Donor]

paging pewhefner

 

[JadeFire]

The alliance the entire weekend was "poop". Which is extremely uncharacteristic.

The mods for the Horde groups have been leveling up peoples gear like crazy with dungeon runs etc. Maybe we finally just weeded out all of our garbage/upgraded everybody to the point where everybody is useful.