Veteran Edition account (6.1 update)

[PepeLePewPew]

Right... I see. I'm using verbal magic and you're NOT insulting me because you're a moderator.
Why do I remember you as one of the more reasonable posters here?

The trial characters are upgraded into a reactivated account. How's that?

 

[Baumbart]

I'm referring to it as a trial character because it has all of the same restrictions (except the guild thing). It essentially IS a trial character created within a dormant account. Let's not stumble over semantics.

What you describe is again, your interpretation. sub-21's that are accessible regardless of status of your account. In effect meaning I can log on to dormant level 5's that were previously paid for.

My interpretation is, well you've read it already. Trials (with all the restrictions of trials, so let's call them that ok?) are created within a dormant account. Once you subscribe those trials become part of your paid account with all restrictions removed. This pretty much is what we understand will be, actually. The burning question is will you have access to these upgraded characters once you've unsubscribed? Again, we're asking the same question with different semantics maybe emphasizing our point of view.

This idea of character locking that you're trying to push doesn't even happen in the current system. There is only ONE thing that makes a character locked and that is character level. Level to 21 and up = character locked.

There are F2Ps in guilds and their characters don't get locked.
There are F2Ps with guild heirlooms and their characters don't get locked.
There are F2Ps with maxed out professions and their characters don't get locked.
There are F2Ps with more bank slots and their characters don't get locked.

As evidenced by people who leveled beyond 20 on their upgraded-downgraded F2Ps and by F2P DKs characters above level 20 become locked upon subsequent logins and this is the only hardcoded limitation. Nothing else prevents toons from logging in. There are no additional "purity checks" in place.

And it's not just starters. P2Ps on expansion trials get to keep their maxed out professions and any latest expansion content they manage to complete even after their trial ends. There is only one thing that they cannot do and that is to level up.

 

[PepeLePewPew]

As evidenced by people who leveled beyond 20 on their upgraded-downgraded F2Ps and by F2P DKs characters above level 20 become locked upon subsequent logins and this is the only hardcoded limitation. Nothing else prevents toons from logging in. There are no additional "purity checks" in place.

Are there accounts that have upgraded-downgraded and still have access to 20 and below characters? I didn't even realize that currently you COULD upgrade then downgrade on a single account.

 

[Bop]

Are there accounts that have upgraded-downgraded and still have access to 20 and below characters? I didn't even realize that currently you COULD upgrade then downgrade on a single account.

Yeah, there are a few examples of F2Ps gaming the system for essentially free.

One of them is the "I didn't use my card for this" refund. This has a decent to high chance of making your account unusable.

Another is the "I dated a GM so they gave my F2P full enchanted BoA's" trick. This has a decent to high chance of ending in a break-up.

 

[Jva]

You keep saying that you are sure it will be as such, when multiple blizz sources have been cited in this thread stating you will be able to log into any character on an account that is below level 21.

ie: https://mobile.twitter.com/AzyxA/status/555859071534759937?p=v

I don't understand where your information is coming from.

That sounds pretty clear for me. I mean of course there is still a chance that Bashiok misinterpreted the question but I highly doubt it. The guy is asking for "My" 1-20 lvl toons. That implies that they already exist and are not newly created on a lapsed account. Also the next answer concerning characters over lvl 20 underlines this interpretation.
To play with some logic and sense. When they lock characters that you played while subbed and leaving you only be able to play characters that you rolled while unsubbed. This f2p character would automatically get an upgrade with your next sub, meaning you wouldnt be able to play it, when sub runs out again. In this case you would have to reroll your f2p again. So basically, they would penalize you for subbing in terms of f2p gaming.
I dont think they will do that. I am pretty sure, they are aware that a subbed lvl 1-20 will be able to gain way more things (enchants, gear etc.) and play with it after unsubbing than f2ps that have never been subbed. But why would they care about that? They dont care about a veteran f2p being able to get enchants, guildlooms and what not. Thats what you earned while you have been subbed.
My bet is, they let you play every toon <21. On a lapsed account you will have all the same limits than every f2p (beside guild joining). If you got more gold, you will just be able to use 10g on it etc.

I just hope they wont automatically turn xp on a 19 back on when your sub ended. That would give f2ps the possibilty to play in a more competetive bracket..

Edit: another post from Bashiok
https://mobile.twitter.com/Bashiok/status/555857040422105088

 

[Bop]

That sounds pretty clear for me. I mean of course there is still a chance that Bashiok misinterpreted the question but I highly doubt it. The guy is asking for "My" 1-20 lvl toons. That implies that they already exist and are not newly created on a lapsed account. Also the next answer concerning characters over lvl 20 underlines this interpretation.
To play with some logic and sense. When they lock characters that you played while subbed and leaving you only be able to play characters that you rolled while unsubbed. This f2p character would automatically get an upgrade with your next sub, meaning you wouldnt be able to play it, when sub runs out again. In this case you would have to reroll your f2p again. So basically, they would penalize you for subbing in terms of f2p gaming.
I dont think they will do that. I am pretty sure, they are aware that a subbed lvl 1-20 will be able to gain way more things (enchants, gear etc.) and play with it after unsubbing than f2ps that have never been subbed. But why would they care about that? They dont care about a veteran f2p being able to get enchants, guildlooms and what not. Thats what you earned while you have been subbed.
My bet is, they let you play every toon <21. On a lapsed account you will have all the same limits than every f2p (beside guild joining). If you got more gold, you will just be able to use 10g on it etc.

I just hope they wont automatically turn xp on a 19 back on when your sub ended. That would give f2ps the possibilty to play in a more competetive bracket..

Edit: another post from Bashiok
https://mobile.twitter.com/Bashiok/status/555857040422105088

I'll be damned if that doesn't scream F2P 19 Twinks.

 

[Kincaide]

Right... I see. I'm using verbal magic and you're NOT insulting me because you're a moderator.
Why do I remember you as one of the more reasonable posters here?

If you took offense to my referring to your stream of logic as "verbal magic" then I apologize. It certainly wasn't meant to imply that you were dumb or logically impaired. Quite the opposite in fact: magic usually means that someone has used deft skill and clever sleight of hand to produce a result that mystifies everyone who observes it. That was the way I meant it and if that was not clear then that is my fault.

 

[LennywBT]

Nope, this truly belongs to P2P 20-29, i don't know what blizzard intends to do with it, but for us F2Ps i think it SHOULD NOT be allowed. Why ? Well, lets say, what do we use the term F2P Restrictions for ?! Hmm.
Yeah. There is a reason why blizzard calls it "Veteran Edition" ... It is a once PAID account , but you can log on only to lv <=20 characters. Your characters might have guild heirlooms , might have enchants (111+ skill)... if they do, they are NOT classified as F2P, because Starter and Veteran are totally different things, (you can play a f2p with restrictions in a veteran tho) .

 

[Kincaide]

Lenny I promised we'd discuss this in the main forum so here we are

The reason why I can't see just throwing veteran F2Ps in with the regular 20-29 crowd is because A) they are F2Ps, they will not have the ability to just run out and get themselves new enchants if scaling changes, as an example. They're locked to what they have, they have all the chat restrictions in place, they can't group with the rest of the 20-29s like the 20-29s can with each other, they can't join 20-29 guilds... They would be completely left out in the cold unless all those 20-29s started using the F2P Addon. The only way that veteran F2Ps are going to be able to effectively communicate with the world is through the F2P addon, so what else could you possibly call them? Putting aside the guild boas and the enchants, so much of their day to day life parallels that of non-veteran F2Ps that I think it would be horrible to ostracize them just because they paid some money and did some work to get some better gear at some point in the past.

 

[Bop]

Lenny I promised we'd discuss this in the main forum so here we are

The reason why I can't see just throwing veteran F2Ps in with the regular 20-29 crowd is because A) they are F2Ps, they will not have the ability to just run out and get themselves new enchants if scaling changes, as an example. They're locked to what they have, they have all the chat restrictions in place, they can't group with the rest of the 20-29s like they can with each other, they can't join 20-29 guilds... They would be completely left out in the cold unless all those 20-29s started using the F2P Addon. The only way that veteran F2Ps are going to be able to effectively communicate with the world is through the F2P addon, so what else could you possibly call them? Putting aside the guild boas and the enchants, so much of their day to day life parallels that of non-veteran F2Ps that I think it would be horrible to ostracize them just because they paid some money and did some work to get some better gear at some point in the past.

Perhaps.

But I can assure you that I am not alone in my certainty that I will never respect the gameplay of another who has access to things that I do not.

 

[PepeLePewPew]

If you took offense to my referring to your stream of logic as "verbal magic" then I apologize.

Ok, just a misunderstanding. Your own point of view is naturally always the most immediately logical. From my perspective I used no trickery in forming my argument, nor was I manipulating facts to suit it. I'm not backing down, but I have nothing else to add. We'll see once we get more official info. Good arguments all around.

 

[LennywBT]

I am going to quote my post , because it truly belongs here :

If it seems like i am insulting anyone, sorry, i was not aiming for that. And Yeah, that's pretty much my opinion on it. But the only thing that i don't really understand is this, if F2Ps use enchants , use Guild Heirlooms etc, will make little difference between 20-29 bracket, ( The one that we cannot create characters 20+ , and the one that they pay ). And we cant just call the Ti Forum Bracket "F2P" anymore just because on 20-29 they pay or create 20+/29. In this case, if this truly happens, i would stick with merging F2P Bracket with 20-29. That's the way i see it.

 

[Kincaide]

Ok, just a misunderstanding. Your own point of view is naturally always the most immediately logical. From my perspective I used no trickery in forming my argument, nor was I manipulating facts to suit it. I'm not backing down, but I have nothing else to add. We'll see once we get more official info. Good arguments all around.

I'm glad that resolved well! I actually went ahead and put in a tweet to Bashiok about this very topic, so that maybe we won't have to wait to find out the answer.

 

[Kincaide]

Perhaps.

But I can assure you that I am not alone in my certainty that I will never respect the gameplay of another who has access to things that I do not.

Bop would you want all of the current F2Ps who choose to pay 5 dollars to get BIS, and all the returning lapsed subscribers who might be a large influx to the community, to have to be lumped in to the 20-29s with whom they share such very few traits? Should we instead relegate Veteran F2P and Starter F2P to two different communities, maybe two different forums, simply because they have slightly different gear but otherwise share every one of the same traits, the same struggles, the same perspectives?

Or is it better to just allow all F2Ps to be full citizens of this community, with full respect given, and the difference in gear between veteran F2P and starter F2P seen as no different from the difference between an F2P who has time to run the Darkmoon Faire and an F2P who does not?

 

[Bop]

Bop would you want all of the current F2Ps who choose to pay 5 dollars to get BIS, and all the returning lapsed subscribers who might be a large influx to the community, to have to be lumped in to the 20-29s with whom they share such very few traits? Should we instead relegate Veteran F2P and Starter F2P to two different communities, maybe two different forums, simply because they have slightly different gear but otherwise share every one of the same traits, the same struggles, the same perspectives?

Or is it better to just allow all F2Ps to be full citizens of this community, with full respect given, and the difference in gear between veteran F2P and starter F2P seen as no different from the difference between an F2P who has time to run the Darkmoon Faire and an F2P who does not?

No. I wouldn't. They're certainly similar in many respects, but they are not F2P if they have access to equipment that standard Starter Edition accounts do not.

They're hybrid - and they have the burden of choice. They must choose to use gear that gives them an edge over other F2Ps.

By choosing to gain that edge, they are not so different from P2Ps.

"All you have to do is pay 5 dollars."

 

[Kincaide]

One could say that certainly there could come a time where, if the majority of the community stays Starter F2P, and people were going to do, say, a wargames or an arena tournament, I'm sure the Veteran F2P would be just as willing to adjust to armor standards the way we allow P2P 20s to do too.

It's just that their Starter Edition-based limitations on chat and grouping etc mean that we, as a community, just have to keep seeing them as brethren. Grouping for BGs with a Veteran should certainly be seen as no more unthinkable than grouping with a P2P 20.

And again, I do think a large portion, if not most, of our community is going to go the Veteran route. Have you thought about it yourself? I'm sort of interested to hear a few people's perspectives on this.

 

[Rusks]

f2p (5$) 19s!!! you guys are too attached to p2p vs f2p just make "f2p" (5$) 19s. if the xp will stay locked and then you can play in a bracket where you can compete without having this p2p vs f2p debate that is honestly the worst part about your bracket, you guys think you are special because "oh im pure f2p" like really?

 

[Bop]

One could say that certainly there could come a time where, if the majority of the community stays Starter F2P, and people were going to do, say, a wargames or an arena tournament, I'm sure the Veteran F2P would be just as willing to adjust to armor standards the way we allow P2P 20s to do too.

It's just that their Starter Edition-based limitations on chat and grouping etc mean that we, as a community, just have to keep seeing them as brethren. Grouping for BGs with a Veteran should certainly be seen as no more unthinkable than grouping with a P2P 20.

And again, I do think a large portion, if not most, of our community is going to go the Veteran route. Have you thought about it yourself? I'm sort of interested to hear a few people's perspectives on this.

Of course I'm going to go Veteran if everything works out as it is currently hypothesized. But I won't be using Guild Looms on my 20's.

I have too much self-respect to take that edge over friends.

 

[Kincaide]

Of course I'm going to go Veteran if everything works out as it is currently hypothesized. But I won't be using Guild Looms on my 20's.

I have too much self-respect to take that edge over friends.

Cool, I can respect that perspective.

 

[Jva]

f2p (5$) 19s!!! you guys are too attached to p2p vs f2p just make "f2p" (5$) 19s. if the xp will stay locked and then you can play in a bracket where you can compete without having this p2p vs f2p debate that is honestly the worst part about your bracket, you guys think you are special because "oh im pure f2p" like really?

This is exactly what f2p should do.

talking about f2p or veteran f2p: In my opinion there is no reason to stay pure f2p if you will be able to get all you need for 5$. You would basically gimp yourself for no reason and willingly lower the competitiveness of the whole bracket. The monthly sub was an argument in the past, the 5$ that you would have to pay for veteran f2p once is none.
But again, all f2p that wants to play competitive pvp should go f2p 19s anyways.