EU+US Vet Hunter tests - post Legion Pre-Patch FYI

icehawk

icehawk

The Beast Within
For anyone that's interested in Hunters in this bracket (well Vet's and F2P's that is - this info may not be the case for 29's), I've done a lot of DPS testing and bg tests on all 3 specs now and can confirm the following from my findings post Legion pre-patch (I'm sure this is already common knowledge, but anyhow here it is) :-

Straight up sustained DPS tests (Theramore Dummy)

BM > Surv > Marks

BM can do greater sustained DPS and has slightly better focus regen than Surv. Using no chant on my weapon BM was able to push out consistently between 640 - 670 DPS on the Dummy.

Surv's sustained DPS was also good, but not as high as BM. Probably more between 570 - 610 DPS. Again no chant on the weapon. Focus seems to be an issue after the initial burst as also a lack of charges on http://www.wowhead.com/spell=190928/mongoose-bite.

Marks was disappointing to say the least. I actually enjoy the rotation and all, but it's so weak on DPS. Was struggling to break 500 DPS, probably more between 470 - 500 DPS. Only plus side is you have no issues with Focus as it's so easy to obtain as Marks. Also makes no difference whether you go http://www.wowhead.com/spell=155228/lone-wolf or one of the other talents with a Pet. It's the same overall DPS. Even constantly having http://www.wowhead.com/spell=187131/vulnerable Debuff up on the target was not enough to make the DPS exciting on the Marks at this level.

Burst Damage

Surv > BM > Marks

Interestingly enough, Surv has a huge burst available at the start of a fight if you have all 3 charges of http://www.wowhead.com/spell=190928/mongoose-bite available. Initial burst can get to over 800 DPS but then settles back to the average noted above. This makes it a good choice for PvP where most encounters are quick and bursty.

BM and Marks didn't seem to have that same burst ability of Surv. Both BM and Marks are more sustained DPS with little to no burst. As BM you may get a slight DPS increase when your http://www.wowhead.com/spell=193530/aspect-of-the-wild is up but outside of that no exciting burst potential.

Surv wins the burst category hands down.

Instanced PvP DPS

BM = Surv > Marks

I done quite a few bg's now in the different specs and the DPS from BM and Surv is so close I can't call it. There are moments when Surv can get a good run and I'm doing 300 - 350 DPS in the bg, which I can't do on the BM hunter but then in the long run, both end up (for me anyway) between 260 - 290 DPS.

Marks just struggles on the DPS charts full stop!

So in summary I guess, what most already knew, is that BM and Surv is the way to go in PvP as a Vet/F2P Hunter. Both have decent utility with 2 x slows (provided you use a Pet with a Slow ability). http://www.wowhead.com/spell=200163/throwing-axes is a must for Surv to provide a good ranged option on a short CD. BM with http://www.wowhead.com/spell=781/disengage and the fact that's it's a fully ranged class gives you a little more chance to stay alive IMO. Also having a Pet with a healing Debuff is also useful against healers.

So if you want the TL;DR version, here it is :- BM and Surv are the best at lvl 20, Marks is crap! :D
 
BM is good sustained damage while Surv is pure burst and bad sustain damage.

At 20 i'd go BM over surv anyday tho. You just cant get in as surv vs ranged due to lack of harpoon.
 
Divo said:
Thanks for sharing! I see from your armory page that you're currently wearing haste gear at marksmanship; does that make it more a competitive option or marks is still bad?
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Marks is still bad, whether Haste or Vers gear. With my Haste set I actually liked playing Marks from a play style point of view, but for some reason the DPS just isn't cutting it. Outside of Instanced bg's, you can fire of shots so fast and keep your focus up but it just hits like a pellet gun and lightly graze the opponent :(
If they ever buff http://www.wowhead.com/spell=185358/arcane-shot or http://www.wowhead.com/spell=19434/aimed-shot I'd try it out again, but for now I wouldn't bother with Marks if you want to be competitive.
 
Nodoka said:
BM is good sustained damage while Surv is pure burst and bad sustain damage.

At 20 i'd go BM over surv anyday tho. You just cant get in as surv vs ranged due to lack of harpoon.
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My preference is BM also, but I still like to get Surv out every now and then. I use a Spider to try and get an initial slow on an opponent then try my darnest to get a http://www.wowhead.com/spell=195645/wing-clip and then I'm able to keep on them. Mages are probably the biggest problem with their escapes. I guess you also have to pick and choose your battles a bit like Warriors do rather than pick people off at a distance like BM.

But I do agree, if 20's had http://www.wowhead.com/spell=190925/harpoon we'd be awesome as Surv. But I feel Surv is still good at 20, but obviously not as effective as a lvl 22 or higher Surv Hunter.
 
isnt all this data worthless without it being an instanced pvp test? the stat templates are completely different in a wsg
 
Rusks said:
isnt all this data worthless without it being an instanced pvp test? the stat templates are completely different in a wsg
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That's why I tested both on the Dummy and also in Instanced PvP. The numbers were just to see how they compare to one another (apples with apples) type comparison. I also did Instanced PvP tests with all specs which I also stated some of those numbers towards the bottom of my post. I know it's a long post, I just had a lot to say :p
 
Lil said:
I consistently put out around 375-400 DPS as SV.... burst is what's needed most in pvp imo which SV has more of. Kitting is only a problem with a few classes and only rshams can outheal my dmg so I'll gladly stick with SV
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Wow that's a fair effort at Surv. I was doing around 300 - 350 DPS in bg's but I'm not fully BiS for Legion but I doubt it makes that big a difference anyhow. You must stick like glue on your targets to get out that sort of DPS. Having played BM most of my WOW life I'm still a little rusty when it comes to melee. :confused:
But I do enjoy Surv just to change things up a bit ;)
 
Lvl 22 bm Hunter auto shot crits also reset dire beast so.... If that was available to 20s I'd respec again
 
Lil said:
I know. I'm just asking the OP cuz that maybe why the DPS is low
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I was using the Loom Spear. Does it make a big difference in an instanced bg to use the slower Axe or Staff? Certainly on the dummy I didn't find much difference between the 2 for the dps tests. The initial burst is better I guess on the Staff and Axe but once in the dps rotation there was little difference. Well that's what I found.
But in the bg's I was using the Spear.
 
I had 11 level 20 twinks prior to prepatch.

Post patch, I'd say my BM hunter is the best. It's certainly one that I'll main from now on. Especially with the corehound, you can help your team tremendously with Ancient Hysteria.
 
Just if anyone is interested I ran some more dummy tests for Vet Hunters further to the recent hotfixes by Blizz. Yes, I know you don't have to be a rocket scientist to realise which has been buffed recently but I like to quantify things! All of these are with non-enchanted weapons for accurate comparisons.

BM Hunter - previously I was getting 640 - 670 dps. New tests show nothing has changed for BM outside of instanced PvP. I averaged 660 dps. However inside of bg's I'm fairly certain we've lost some dps due to a loss of Agility that takes place inside the bg / arena. I'd probably guess BM has lost about 10% dps inside of bg's despite no changes on the outside.

Surv Hunter - Previously was getting 570 - 610 dps. This time round I averaged 700 dps on the dummy. That's a huge jump in sustained dps and the burst is obviously much greater than all the other specs which came in around 900 - 1000 dps, but then eventually drops down to 700 ish where it can be maintained. Surv has now overtaken BM as the best dps Hunter spec, inside and outside of bg's. Inside of instanced PvP, it is literally double the dps of BM Hunters.

Marks Hunter - Previously was getting 470 - 500 dps. It does seem to have improved as I was able to average around 570 dps. But it is still the lowest dps of the 3 Hunter specs. For some reason I had seen that http://www.wowhead.com/spell=19434/aimed-shot on Wowhead shows as instant cast but it still had a cast time. Maybe Wowhead is showing a change that will be implemented in 7.1? Anyhow, although the dps was up it's still the lowest of the 3.

So with the recent hot fixes, for straight up dps Surv now takes BM's spot at the top. So :-

straight up sustained dps on the Theramore dummy

Surv > BM > Marks

I'm going to try and run some Marks inside of bg's in the next week or so to see how it compares with BM and Surv. I have plenty of numbers for BM and Surv inside of bg's but very few with Marks, so I'll see how it compares.
 
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