To the F2P exploiters

[LennywBT]

A few days ago i had a conversation about this with [MENTION=18878]AlbinoCow[/MENTION]. He shared his opinions about jumps and exploiting with me. And I completely agreed, because i couldn't find a better argument, and because that's the way I, now think it stands at.

What is considered to be an exploit is, a place you can can reach, using the benefits you gain from your class (speed, Demonic leap, gob jump, Gob Gilder kit, and what not). Some other people using other type of in-game-classes, might not be able to reach you or hit you. For instance, we could consider doing a jump on Warsong Gulch , but a warrior simply can not charge at you, even if he is standing on a pillar, in front of your eyes, but Ranged DPS can hunt him down. This , i think, is what should be called an exploit.

As for jumping to reach Horde's/Alliance's ToT, i do not think it should be called an exploit. Every class/race is able to do that jump, or get to the place you want to reach and outplay you. Warriors/Druids/Locks/Pallys/Mages/Rogues etc are able to make your jump there hard and maybe even impossible to complete. For instance, you are trying to hit a place jumping, but you are standing in the middle of terrain, where someone, standing right there would obviously fall, because of the laws of gravity, but the laws of gravity do not work exactly as intended to in WoW, wich means you have only touched a steep part of terrain and you are still standing there. This is a blizzards fail, but even tho, the jump you are trying to make to get to the flat terrain, can easily be interrupted. You can get charged by a warrior/druid, can get frozen/polymorphed by a mage, you would obviously fall. And your jump would be ruined. But you can just go there by taking another longer path, but if you manage to get there before your target does, that is considered to be an outplay, wich means the target is not using an exploit, because he clearly can get hit by any type of incoming DPS.

 

[Allybeboba]

In both situations you gave, someone is losing while someone else is winning.

Those are flawed allegories.

Agreed...
In the examples he/she gave, someone is clearly stealing and is doing something against the law.
A closer analogy would be a race between two people where as the people were given two choices, one( in the case of jumps) was a shorter route but involved dexterity and knowledge. And one that was longer but that did not.
Would you admonish the competitors for taking the shorter, perhaps more difficult route simply because they had the physical and mental prowess to take it? I think not. You may even cheer them on!
Have a wonderful day.

/cheers
Sweetsydney

 

[Allybeboba]

People are losing when exploits are maid that can't be done by everyone, thus giving an unfair advantage.

But I don't think jumping around the gulch is exploiting (in some cases it is tho, like jumping out of map, using bugged toys etc), but is merely a proof of great map awareness. Like the horde/ally ToT jumps, fence jumps, jumping on roots and logs etc.

What exploits can't be done by everyone? Everyone in the game has or has had access to the same content has everyone else. Do they not?
People just choose to not gain access for whatever reason that have decided suits them.

/cheers
Sweetsidney

 

[Snack]

What exploits can't be done by everyone? Everyone in the game has or has had access to the same content has everyone else. Do they not?
People just choose to not gain access for whatever reason that have decided suits them.

/cheers
Sweetsidney

No. Hunters can disengage to the most fucked up places in alliance base. And hen you were able to use the MoP toy that would burst you up in the air, you were be able to reach places that for instance f2p's players couldn't cause they didn't have access to MoP, in MoP that is. The toy quickly became unusable in BG's cause Blizz discovered that they fuck'd up. I'd say this was an exploit.

And when the wall just before the entrance to horde FR from ramp was bugged so you could phase through it with flag worked, you had the most opportune place for standing with flag. This is an unfair advantage for hordes, since of course the bases aren't identical, but this clearly was a mistake from Blizz's side, that made the horde base way better for FC's than the alliance's.

 

[Original]

No. Hunters can disengage to the most fucked up places in alliance base. And hen you were able to use the MoP toy that would burst you up in the air, you were be able to reach places that for instance f2p's players couldn't cause they didn't have access to MoP, in MoP that is. The toy quickly became unusable in BG's cause Blizz discovered that they fuck'd up. I'd say this was an exploit.

And when the wall just before the entrance to horde FR from ramp was bugged so you could phase through it with flag worked, you had the most opportune place for standing with flag. This is an unfair advantage for hordes, since of course the bases aren't identical, but this clearly was a mistake from Blizz's side, that made the horde base way better for FC's than the alliance's.

All the ally base disengage jumps can be done with mounts, all though it takes more time and is more difficult, it doesnt mean its an exploit, it just makes the wall jump easier and you can do the jumps with the flag with speed pot as well or be a druid. I consider the jump on top of ally gy as an exploit though as it is hunter ONLY.

 

[Allybeboba]

No. Hunters can disengage to the most fucked up places in alliance base. And hen you were able to use the MoP toy that would burst you up in the air, you were be able to reach places that for instance f2p's players couldn't cause they didn't have access to MoP, in MoP that is. The toy quickly became unusable in BG's cause Blizz discovered that they fuck'd up. I'd say this was an exploit.

And when the wall just before the entrance to horde FR from ramp was bugged so you could phase through it with flag worked, you had the most opportune place for standing with flag. This is an unfair advantage for hordes, since of course the bases aren't identical, but this clearly was a mistake from Blizz's side, that made the horde base way better for FC's than the alliance's.

Plz...
Non hunters chose to be non hunters.
Starters chose to not have access to MoP.
Alliance players have access to that very same wall glitch in the Horde base. Or you could choose to play Horde for that fact.
All players have access to those three examples.
Just because someone makes a different choice than you, or disagrees with your opinion, does not automatically make them wrong. They just chose a different path.

/cheers
Sweetsidney

 

[Zehj]

every jump i cant do is an exploit

 

[paranoi]

every jump i cant do is an exploit

finally a reasonable point

 

[Talok]

Plz...
Non hunters chose to be non hunters.
Starters chose to not have access to MoP.
Alliance players have access to that very same wall glitch in the Horde base. Or you could choose to play Horde for that fact.
All players have access to those three examples.
Just because someone makes a different choice than you, or disagrees with your opinion, does not automatically make them wrong. They just chose a different path.

/cheers
Sweetsidney

I imagine how cool games would be if everyone decided "to choose" the "best" options. I think the point isn't that everyone can do it if they want, of course every single person reading this could pay $5 for one month, buy all possible enchants for his feral and crit over 3k FB. 10x10 full chanted ferals wsg.. cool? maybe for 2 days. The point is that ppl want fair, competitive matches, full of possibilities and thats why we chose different paths. And that is why the jumping question is not that simple.

 

[Allybeboba]

They practically do. That is why every patch is filled with FoTM rerollers. Be it hunters in Cata, Paladins in 5.0, hunters/prot warrior and now ferals/BM. They choose the path of water. And water always chooses the path of least resistance. Yet do you scream and yell at the river when it is in your way? No... You either build a bridge over it or find another way to traverse it. That is, unless you are as weak and timid as the rerollers themselves.
Have a wonderful day.

/cheers
Sweetsidney

 

[Original]

They practically do. That is why every patch is filled with FoTM rerollers. Be it hunters in Cata, Paladins in 5.0, hunters/prot warrior and now ferals/BM. They choose the path of water. And water always chooses the path of least resistance. Yet do you scream and yell at the river when it is in your way? No... You either build a bridge over it or find another way to traverse it. That is, unless you are as weak and timid as the rerollers themselves.
Have a wonderful day.

/cheers
Sweetsidney

Woah man... Is it still 4/20...?

 

[Zemmix]

In both situations you gave, someone is losing while someone else is winning.

Those are flawed allegories.

This.

Snack, while I agree with you...Please look at my post above, and see what I'm referring to for ones I think of. I'm referring to a bit different stuff than BG exploits, and such.

As for the bank vs GM item...I get your point, but really? A bank losing money and putting it in the wrong pockets vs someone clearing a raid in WoW? As for the bank situation, I truly believe the person who made the mistake is at least partially responsible for negligence and should lose their job, and should own the responsibility. As for the GM situation, it's laughable.

While I see the counter arguments, many game companies treat this differently (And in many MMOs) and actually use these "Exploited" things to learn about things they need to patch, instead of letting pride get in their way.

And anyone who even considers what I discussed about Mages and Naxx an exploit is just a silly nilly.

 

[Kincaide]

In both situations you gave, someone is losing while someone else is winning.

Those are flawed allegories.

Actually no, the three of you that posted in disagreement with what I said must indicate that I didn't do a good enough job of making my point. My argument was not solely in counter of jumping itself. It was in counter of the blanket argument that -all- exploits are okay, and I was specifically addressing Efflorescence's use of the duping exploit as an example. You will note that later in the same post I mentioned that it is arguable that jumping is not an exploit. And your response does go to the argument that jumping is not an exploit, if one asserts that jumping is a victimless crime... which itself is debatable. But you're taking my statement to be aimed solely at that which I already stated is a debatable, whereas I intended it to apply to the larger subject of exploits in general which--at least in the case of the two that I was responding to--do in fact have victims.

 

[Snack]

Plz...
Non hunters chose to be non hunters.
Starters chose to not have access to MoP.
Alliance players have access to that very same wall glitch in the Horde base. Or you could choose to play Horde for that fact.
All players have access to those three examples.
Just because someone makes a different choice than you, or disagrees with your opinion, does not automatically make them wrong. They just chose a different path.

/cheers
Sweetsidney

So flying around the map using some hacking software isn't exploiting either? Since we could all just chose to buy it and fuck up battleground?

 

[Allybeboba]

So flying around the map using some hacking software isn't exploiting either? Since we could all just chose to buy it and fuck up battleground?

How many times have you seen someone use a paid fly hack in the 20-29 battlegrounds? Probably not very many times , if at all. And if you did all had to do was SS and report them. There is a mechanism in place for just that.
Have a wonderful weekend.

/cheers
Sweetsidney

 

[Snack]

How many times have you seen someone use a paid fly hack in the 20-29 battlegrounds? Probably not very many times , if at all. And if you did all had to do was SS and report them. There is a mechanism in place for just that.
Have a wonderful weekend.

/cheers
Sweetsidney

You didn't answer my question tho

 

[Allybeboba]

And neither you, mine?
And no, that is not exploiting a game mechanic. It involves a 3rd party software and is explicitly forbidden in the EULA. Two totally different things. There you have it. Hitherto lies the difference.

/cheers

 

[Original]

So flying around the map using some hacking software isn't exploiting either? Since we could all just chose to buy it and fuck up battleground?

While I hate to agree with [MENTION=13421]Allybeboba[/MENTION] , he is right. Using an ability in game vs using a 3rd party software is so different it boggles my mind that you though that that was a good analogy.

 

[Goesid]

While I hate to agree with [MENTION=13421]Allybeboba[/MENTION] , he is right. Using an ability in game vs using a 3rd party software is so different it boggles my mind that you though that that was a good analogy.

Right. But it's a rare feeling.

 

[Snack]

And neither you, mine?
And no, that is not exploiting a game mechanic. It involves a 3rd party software and is explicitly forbidden in the EULA. Two totally different things. There you have it. Hitherto lies the difference.

/cheers

I'll answer your question: I have seen it quite a couple of times, especially in the lower brackets. Never seen it at endgame, but in the lower exp-on brackets I have. Blizzard doesn't really give a fuck and neither do the players in that certain bracket cause they know they'll be out of it in a couple of lvls. It is still happening tho.

While I hate to agree with Allybeboba , he is right. Using an ability in game vs using a 3rd party software is so different it boggles my mind that you though that that was a good analogy.

I didn't say that fly-hacking = map-exploiting. I asked to show where his point is flawed. Yes it is a choice not to roll hunter for some bugged disengage jump. And not to roll horde for a brilliant place to hide with flag (and seriously, if you can't see this place being better for horde than ally you either have no clue of what I am talking about, or you're knowledge of how WSG is miniscule).

We chose to roll whatever class and faction we like because of other reasons, there are hundreds and I really cba to state them all. The point is that we shouldn't have to roll a hunter or a horde char to have the best advantages in the battleground. Of course all classes have difference, but these are iIntended differences that makes for a balanced game. Not differences that are so clearly not meant to be abused.

That's why I think that it is exploiting; yes everyone CAN access this (just like fly-hacking) but that doesn't legitimize it