Tinker's, Want them to stay or be removed from 70?

[Sparklystars]

everyone should get all tinkers, alot of people say that tinkers are overpowered, but they are actually the most balanced thing in this bracket, because everyone can get them and they give everyone the same ability (int str agi or 3k instant dmg), alot of classes doesnt have the dmg that mages/rogues have and in those situations u can use synapse/tazik instead to get the kill. ive never been in a situation where ive lost because of synapse/tazik and there was nothing i/my team could have done to win, and ive still played some really horrible comps.

 

[Vapriest]

I know you're trying to be nice sparkly but that simply isn't true. You lost with cyber vs me/yow something like 6-2, the 2 wins to you were primarily due to the fact that you actually hit a double tazik on me.

The amount of times where a target would have died if i had tazik however, and i've actively said that on skype to whoever i may have been with must be over 100 now. Whilst giving everyone access to the tinkers would stabilise the bracket as you suggest, if anything i feel that the bracket would become even more of a 1 shot fest.

That being said, literally every single high team in arena is either double tazik or synapse tazik in 2s and the same with 3s. From what i recall the bracket was fairly balanced (burst wise) pre-synapse and tazik, and even when they were first introduced they weren't widely known about. I remember learning synapse and not even knowing i'd learnt it or checking my spellbook until for the first time ever i lost a duel to a rogue and went through his gear carefully inspecting it. Then it hit me, he had synapse and it seemed that that was the reason behind the loss, t hough in retrospect it might not have been.

Overall whilst you don't NEED tazik to win as i've demonstrated, it sure makes it a heck of alot easier in alot of situations.

 

[Sparklystars]

I know you're trying to be nice sparkly but that simply isn't true. You lost with cyber vs me/yow something like 6-2, the 2 wins to you were primarily due to the fact that you actually hit a double tazik on me.

The amount of times where a target would have died if i had tazik however, and i've actively said that on skype to whoever i may have been with must be over 100 now. Whilst giving everyone access to the tinkers would stabilise the bracket as you suggest, if anything i feel that the bracket would become even more of a 1 shot fest.

That being said, literally every single high team in arena is either double tazik or synapse tazik in 2s and the same with 3s. From what i recall the bracket was fairly balanced (burst wise) pre-synapse and tazik, and even when they were first introduced they weren't widely known about. I remember learning synapse and not even knowing i'd learnt it or checking my spellbook until for the first time ever i lost a duel to a rogue and went through his gear carefully inspecting it. Then it hit me, he had synapse and it seemed that that was the reason behind the loss, t hough in retrospect it might not have been.

Overall whilst you don't NEED tazik to win as i've demonstrated, it sure makes it a heck of alot easier in alot of situations.

Me and Cyber had 2x tazik, u and steven had 2x synapse, both teams used tinkers, and we played 2-2 so no point even discussing them.

Of course there would be more "1 shots" but it would also be alot more balanced, every class and every specc has something equally strong = balance, how to get around the "random 1 shots", just increase survival of all classes, blizzard did this with warriors before since they where to squishy, they changed all the stances to give + 5% DR.

 

[Cyb]

but when rogures and mages gets nerfed in Mop, it will be alot more balanced, then it's just the tinkers left, im not talkign about balance as in everythign workign 100% as it should.

Im talkign about not needing to have a mage/rogue/priest with tazik to be viable for a high rank in 3v3.

Semi balance instead of having 3 classes on top without noone harming them.
Kinda

/otrolig

Do you really think people will play 70 in MOP HAAAAAa!
Aswell looking for some 2s and 3s opponets, if ur above 2,2k mmr feel free to pm me. I do not wanna sit in 10 minutes queue for nothing. Just fun games ^^)
Can do wargames aswell if u do not want to put your rating at risk

 

[crossaqsing]

But spark,

Mage/rogue. which does enough dmg, having tazik/ss. makes it's dmg(if used correctly) kinda to much

warrior/boomkin which does dmg y, but not enough. having tazik/ss. Makes it's dmg good.

Good dmg > OP Dmg
low dmg > good dmg

(tried to make a point )

For players that dosnt play the best classes, tinkers get's to much. While u need them urself to be viable.

I See it as kinda "old" to go up vs a team that would kill me in a cc without tinkers, and has tazik/ss on top of that.
(just my thoughts)

/otrolig

 

[crossaqsing]

And i will twink in MOP for sure New talent tree yells to me

Talant tree /Y: RESTOKIN IS BACK

love<3

 

[Sparklystars]

But spark,

Mage/rogue. which does enough dmg, having tazik/ss. makes it's dmg(if used correctly) kinda to much

warrior/boomkin which does dmg y, but not enough. having tazik/ss. Makes it's dmg good.

Good dmg > OP Dmg
low dmg > good dmg

(tried to make a point )

For players that dosnt play the best classes, tinkers get's to much. While u need them urself to be viable.

I See it as kinda "old" to go up vs a team that would kill me in a cc without tinkers, and has tazik/ss on top of that.
(just my thoughts)

/otrolig

Noone above 2.4k rating dies in a random shatter with tazik or in a shatter casted by a mage with synapse up, there is always a deep freeze and cc on the other partner (fear, mc, poly, nova, stun etc) to prevent peels.

My point being it doesnt matter if the damage is super high when ur in a deep and ur partner is cc'd one of you has to trinket no matter if the enemy has synapses/taziks, even if u got 800 resi.

And having played warrior hpala in 2s and almost never lost to mage/healer due to constantly fking up their burst, 90% of the times we won, 5% we lost and 5% was a draw, even though hpala is the healer hardest countered by mages and warrior the dps hardest countered by mages.

and cyber ye, i wanna queue up against u.

 

[crossaqsing]

I played hp/arms vs a priest/rogue team.(just on 1950mmr) Rogue had ss. And hes dmg was so high that my paladin couldnt stop heal, he didnt have time to exorsism(our basic tact to win dissapeard.

and after SS rogue vanished, 30 sec later came back, and then he used ss/cds. after the gcds to get sheild wall up pala was blinded and i was in sheild wall, at 40% my paladin bubbles to not get fear/sap, (like half a sec after blind. but i was still dead due to a 7k ambush.

I know i could go prot or stack more resi. but then we dont put out pressure enough. (Maybe i've got out of the subject)
I just think the already tough setups gets so impossible with it.
Maybe you can counter that as Rmp, rrp, mmp at 2k.
But i dont really feel that you can as warrior, and i've played warrior for 6 years, i'd like to think that i know what im doing .

tho we meet a 1800 mage/rogue without synapse/tazik. and beat them(sup) no they werent that good. but it makes a huge diff for some setups.


(Otrolig)

 

[Sparklystars]

in 2 words: go prot, you wont have problems putting out preassure with ur paladin spamming exorcism while ur doing the charge>concussion blow>shockwave>heroic throw>pummel silence>rocket jump away and intercept or belf silence, prot warriors has incredible control and if u have a priest/paladin helping u burst and keeping u dispell'd ur burst will be fine.

 

[Wafflecakes]

I like em....they can stay.

I mean. God forbid this bracket have items that are hard to get yet very good. Its one of the things I love about twinking....its all about bending what was intended to get every advantage possible. This bracket would be a snoozefest without em.

 

[mrdoobry]

They have to stay for PvE, I would miss my daft burst macro on my mage with SS, 3500 SP wassup? Lol.

But for PvP they got to go, burst is too ridiculous as it is...

 

[crossaqsing]

u got a mage with like 2800 sp unbuffed?

Seems Weird.

 

[mrdoobry]

u got a mage with like 2800 sp unbuffed?

Seems Weird.

Aha I smell a doubter! Of course this is only for burst and not sustained but of course, I will educate thee!

You see my mage is not BiS but is an Engineer and Tailor. So for the burst macro (I wait till Cloak enchant procs). As she is Arcane we have the following!:

Over 1900 SP self buffed with Wizard Oil, Flask and Food Buff.
Naaru trinket gives 320 SP.
Synapse gives 480 but with Arcane Intellect and Kings this gives around 534!
Tailoring Proc gives 295.
Improved Mana Gem talent gives 2% maximum mana as SP. 21k mana buffed easily, so this gives 420+.
Add those up together for that burst window - around 3500 SP.

Bear in mind maximum buffs and BiS would net around 3700 at least. Add the fact she is troll, so 20% more haste during that window. Oh and add a haste potion for good measure.

Not unusual to burst 12-13k dps on an heroic boss for example.

P.S. Very fun to go into BG hide behind say a tree/hill and nuke half an unsuspecting team who are busy fighting other people and 2-3 shotting them all before they figure whats going on. (Of course you are dead as soon as one half glances at you but ho-hum. )

 

[skatenhate]

they should be removed:
1) they are over powered
2) the only people who want them are the people with them ( and their argument is: get them if you dont like them) - lets think this over... maybe you don't want to have engineering as a professions, but this is a bad choice because if you're not an engineer then you're seveerley under-geared.
3) they carry bad people - people can kill others with simply these items and a complete lack of skill
4) level 85 item, simply require all the tinkers to 80 like the other ones

So a basic overall assumption is these engineering items are pretty gay and should be removed, although im getting mine now because they're so overpowered

 

[skatenhate]

Lol i just read this whole post and again THE ONLY PEOPLE WHO WANT THEM ARE THE PEOPLE WITH THEM

 

[Esotra]

they should be removed:
1) they are over powered
2) the only people who want them are the people with them ( and their argument is: get them if you dont like them) - lets think this over... maybe you don't want to have engineering as a professions, but this is a bad choice because if you're not an engineer then you're seveerley under-geared.
3) they carry bad people - people can kill others with simply these items and a complete lack of skill
4) level 85 item, simply require all the tinkers to 80 like the other ones

So a basic overall assumption is these engineering items are pretty gay and should be removed, although im getting mine now because they're so overpowered

Personally, Only time i've been peeved by Tinkers have been during shadow dances, Three 5-8k Ambushes, Partner can't even trinket. Mages freezing me, 1 second Frostbolt, Fire off an ice lance, Plus tazik.

But really, This isn't the old 'Big daddy", it isn't completely decimating an entire resurrection wave in Alterac Valley.

1) Boop, <2k hit at times, barely noticed. Only 'over powered' in the right hands, at the right times. Rogues during dance, or just rogues in general.

2) The only people who don't have them are people who just don't give a damn about their character, and want even more things handed to them on a silver platter. As it has been, as long as i can remember, Engineering is the preferred/strongest profession of most brackets. (Can't speak for anything aside from 70-74), Some professions, classes, and/or specializations are stronger then others, varying from bracket to bracket.

3) When it comes to mages, rogues, and priests, They can do just fine without it, And the mage class, as a whole, count be count as a 'carry', Toss in a tazik and, well, yeah. Two arms warriors each sportin' a tazik aren't getting rank-1-in-this-srs-brkt overnight.

4) What. The other tinkers, that require 500+ Require 75, if memory serves.

5) I honestly didn't know Synaptic springs or tazik shockers had sexual preferences.

6) Big letters. So many big letters. Why does he have to make his letters so big..?



Think that's everything, And that's just my coffee-less opinions, And stoppitz with the Big letters. Caps lock is like putting a megaphone up to somebody elses head, and screaming into it.

 

[crossaqsing]

but there you agree with thepoint i always make

rogue/mage Go from. Very high dmg, to very very high dmg.
warrior/boomkin go from. Medium dmg, to pretty good dmg.

I would rahter have mage rogue doing very high dmg
and warrior doign normal.

then that.

And a Skatenhate

Very true waht u say about carry noobs.

(just a funny mage)
This guy on my server, fire mage. when i duel him on warr. he living bombs me>synapse>iceblock. i die before iceblock ends. ticks 4/5 k .
sometimes iceblock ends and fire blast
So that's another great point.

Just make sure if you dont want tinkers on lvl 70, Go into the EU/US forums and make thread in the proffesion forum.

//Otrolig