This makes me sad

Conq

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This is a rant, in part because i'm having doubts in regards to the nature of the nwl, i'm sorry if this is a bit outspoken as bracket manager and a mod. Yet I feel to an extent its important for me to set an example for what it is to be a 19 and an XP-Off player/twink, now most people would say that means being the best you can be at your class, mastering the meta, becoming one of the elite core 19s, its actually something i've seen newer twinks aspire to be, that is part of their motivation to put in the real time and effort it takes some to master the 19s meta and game play, its a hard nutshell to crack for some, the current meta is something i have not personally had the time to master, and i can honestly blame that on preference, I would rather help run the community and master my ability at that, than on the battlefield, so for my own enjoyment, that's how I choose to be a 19, although i do enjoy the occasional warsong gulch or arena, but that is far from the point of this post.

what I've seen over the 10 years as a wow player has been that people who twink tend to have a preference for perfection, that's what the desire to be completely bis comes from, that's why a pair of gloves that has a few better stat at a twink bracket costs so much more than even significantly better items than average items do at end game, there is novelty to it, and that way of thinking has embedded itself in our community, it has always been about being the best player around. In more recent times we have gained a fair bit of organization. It has been my goal as someone who helps manage various structures to embody that same 19s perfectionist mindset in what we do outside of the battlefield and in my planning and execution, and i've done my absolute best to manage The NWL,GG19, and help with other things, but it is a serious personal investment for me, as an esports league that has players from the far reaches of the globe, I get messages literally 24/7. This is something I spend a lot of time doing, to say the least, so i have to ask myself the question; is it worth it? Time is more valuable than currency after all.

Perhaps this is the same dilemma HB experienced with his plans to help initiate a major twitch movement within the bracket. After all, i'm pretty sure he and I both think that the time and effort ourselves and others put into it CAN be worth it, but we cannot do more alone. We need the average community member to do more, and we are not sure that people are interested in that at this point.

My problem is that if myself and a few others seek to embody the 19s mentality that i mentioned, and others who participate do not, what am I to think? I guess i think people don't take it seriously, I've done my best to adapt the league to the community preference, and I'm more than willing to keep doing that, but how can i take this seriously if others don't, I'm not going to name names but how can I invest this much personal resource into something that apparently I shouldn't take serious? I have yet to answer that question, maybe HB was right about abandoning the professionalism, or as grizzle once said "pseudo-professionalism". That may make things easier, I'm not sure if that's even appealing to me, because i value the skills I develop as i do what i do. I know that in a perfect world, most others would actually start embody the kind of mindset that constantly gets perpetuated in this community within The NWL, I'm not sure it will happen, and I'm unsure of the future of 19s if people keep taking our activities for granted as well.

Well that's it, sorry for writing a journal page community @ thread, and the tldr.
 
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I created GG19, I've done enough for this community.
 
I think can't speak on behalf of everyone, but i can definitely talk about my experiences and views along with those whom I'm familiar with.


For starters, one issue is that the majority of players whom I've seen queue 19s over the past few years, do not use TI at all. They stay completely away from it. In my own observations, about 40% of people whom I encounter in PUGs are active TI members. With the exception of really you, HB etc there are very, very few people on here whom I'd actually WANT to be in a community with, based on how they've represented themselves to me.


In my own opinion, I have 0 desire to participate in NWL. I queue PUGs expecting nothing, I play them for enjoyment, and I walk away with exactly what I expected when I'm out of free time. I Premaded lightly in Cata but I really stopped any competitive efforts with 19s back in TBC. I simply have 0 desire to participate in high competition games. Reasons for that: 1) The meta post Cata has favored gear and class mechanics far above skill in my opinion and with that, the reward for success is inexistent... 2) My time for competitive 19s had already come and passed. The guilds I was premading with / for / against back in TBC were far superior in many ways to any modern day guild. I don't have any fun in current guilds. The social aspect of this game has shifted to pure mean girls clique above all, and every guild faction swaps / dodges competition and then renames after any loss. There's 0 balls in the 19s community. There are very, very few memorable / unique people in the community. Everyone does the same thing, looks the same way, acts the same way. Conformity has killed many of my interests and it has streamlined peoples ability to actually gather and express their own opinions. People would much rather agree to popular opinion and try to fit in than voice their true opinions no matter how much hate they'll receive.


Another issue, if I participate in NWL, I am knowingly messing with PUGs for the evening. I do not condone disrupting PUGs by any means. If we can get to the point of having multiple PUGs nearly 24/7 then I won't feel as though 15 people are sitting out or in some shitty 10v3 game because I'm trying to get my competitive 19s on in NWL.


Another thing, 19s by nature preach for valuing competition, yet dodge it at all costs. They refuse to compete with each other in a match where their skill can be challenged truly. All talk and as minimal walk as possible. Few players whom are vocal about being pro at 19s actually lead their own guilds and take on challengers in 10v10 premades. Guilds themselves are min-maxed. Load up allstar guilds with 30 pro twinkers to be 1337 instead of organically start a new guild, recruit and educate new community members. We're really only funneled down until a few cliques these days and how much fun is that? Hell there is such potential for so many people to take on leadership roles and encourage growth in the community, yet they'll talk daily on TI complaining about problems without ever providing a solution and even acting on it.


I've truly only valued activity in the PUGing aspect as that results to growth, more guilds, more twinks, and in my opinion, better accommodation for various levels of 19s in terms of fulfilling their varied satisfactions. I value many guilds of various skill levels, on as many servers as possible, with as many twinks as possible and as many PUG games going as possible. I've done a lot to try to do that and had received tremendous support in my efforts, but honestly back in Cata /early mop I realized the amount of efforts that I had put in myself along with the many others, simply could do nothing to stimulate the minds of the cliquy BH crew whom value perceived competition over all else. I don't like the idea of focusing our entire community on one server and as few guilds as possible, I never will like that idea, I never will support it and I never will say that it was ever worth it. LSFTW was the most active and thriving guild during Cata and it was held off of BH. The atmosphere in that guild was worlds more enjoyable than any other guild I had been in post Cata.


Just a few words of my own opinions. Some may be directly applicable, others may be a little more obscure. Take what you will, with as large or small grain of salt as you'd like. I'm not bothering to make this post terribly well written, merely just trying to get some untouched opinions out there.


Cheers
 
So because your idea of twinking is based on dedication and seriousness, others should dedicate more time and take it more serious as well, for your work for the community to make sense? Everyone has different ideas of what twinking means. For some it is their main activity in WoW, like yours and mine, but for others it might be an escape from tedious PvE runs @100, or something to do while waiting for some imbalanced end game PvP shit to be patched. You can't dictate what it means to twink, and you can't make people change their idea of twinking.

I am a big supporter of the work that you, and many others, have done for the 19 community; GG19, NWL etc., but you are doing this for the community right? If so, you must accept that the community also consists of players who don't take it as seriously as you do.
 
i thought the nwl was supposed to be a fun way to get people to play some competitive premades. i think if you over do it you potentially lose a lot of interest and if you under do it you wont get that. you need to balance it
 
Simple answer to it all. 19s are for fun now. Esport League = Gain at the end of the road from hours on end of practice. There simply no gain at that road for 19s, except for once a year which is the twink cup. Most people who ever considered sitting hours on end in front of a monitor to play in an esports league would highly regret wasting their time with WoW. Moral of the story, 19s competitively, or 100s competitively all are really for fun at this point. If someone is going to spend hours on end in front of monitor to master something it won't be WoW, sorry bud but that is reality. The people who are spending hours on end in front of a monitor are playing games like league and csgo because those games have a future, and WoW clearly doesn't.
 
Thanks for everything you do for the community [MENTION=189]Conq[/MENTION].

You are a leader in the community and i'm glad you voiced your opinion, your frustration is understandable.

Going to think over everything tonight.
 
rbg
 
I'm unsure of the future of 19s if people keep taking our activities for granted as well.

It is pretty self explanatory what will happen when people take 19s for granted and people who try to do something about it, just look at EU, this is why you have EUs playing US these days and EU having like 3 pops a year and at best games for holidays
 

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