EU+US The difference.

[Chops]

This is really odd. I'm not sure if you're trolling or simply don't understand the difference between the intention of a new toon and then reality.
It seems perfectly reasonable that F2P accounts are MADE to farm levelers meaning that the intention for the toon is beat the shit out of people simply levelling through the bracket. However the reality is that F2P players suck and therefore get farmed by levelers regardless of the intention of those accounts being to farm levelers back.
These are both perfectly compatible and can both be asserted with no contradiction.

Look, theres only room for one insufferable pedant on this forum and thats me

 

[Muntor]

When I was a kid, agi gave wars crit and fiery was bis. Yeah fiery. Sup.

 

[Dimitri]

There should always be an advantage for paying vs People playing free. Is not fair for the people puting money into it, you might be spending a lot of time in it, but not money.
You cant ask everyone to play level 20 with no enchants because the bracket is not made for 20s if trial account was like till level 30 People would say many of the actual 39s have those toons Just to farm 30s.
The fact that there are 20 vets or ftp in xpon bracket is probs a mistake, it wouldnt be surprising they change how xplock works when having no gametime because if People asked about twinks in other brackets not letting them level in peace i see they will do something to take out of leveling bracket 20 vets which have the same xplock mecanic as ftp.
20 bracket would be dead if it had its own Q, even 19s having the biggest amount of twinks struggle most of the time to get Qs if its not night time.
20 vets/ftp only group of twinks that didnt got affected by a huge change that destroyed twinking in 29+ brackets.
I would say Just enjoy 20 ftp rn as much as you can instead of crying about 2 or 3 29s, also if you think vets are the huge deal then report them so you can also get removed from xpon Qs.
You will never play the fair game if you are playing for free.

 

[Ayden]

20 vets/ftp only group of twinks that didnt got affected by a huge change that destroyed twinking in 29+ brackets.
I would say Just enjoy 20 ftp rn as much as you can instead of crying about 2 or 3 29s, also if you think vets are the huge deal then report them so you can also get removed from xpon Qs.

Yeah I'm pretty sympathetic to this view. I also just on principle think that if you're unsubbed and level capped that you're xp is functionally off. This would mean that you should be queueing with other xp off players anyways.
Regardless the complaints about having fresh new players joining their bracket is pretty irritating when so many brackets were just ousted.

 

[Neon]

There should always be an advantage for paying vs People playing free. Is not fair for the people puting money into it, you might be spending a lot of time in it, but not money.
You cant ask everyone to play level 20 with no enchants because the bracket is not made for 20s if trial account was like till level 30 People would say many of the actual 39s have those toons Just to farm 30s.
The fact that there are 20 vets or ftp in xpon bracket is probs a mistake, it wouldnt be surprising they change how xplock works when having no gametime because if People asked about twinks in other brackets not letting them level in peace i see they will do something to take out of leveling bracket 20 vets which have the same xplock mecanic as ftp.
20 bracket would be dead if it had its own Q, even 19s having the biggest amount of twinks struggle most of the time to get Qs if its not night time.
20 vets/ftp only group of twinks that didnt got affected by a huge change that destroyed twinking in 29+ brackets.
I would say Just enjoy 20 ftp rn as much as you can instead of crying about 2 or 3 29s, also if you think vets are the huge deal then report them so you can also get removed from xpon Qs.
You will never play the fair game if you are playing for free.

Who are you legion, 29 twink scum? I assume that you got the wrong message about this thread and my views.

 

[The Saint]

So wait, which is it

Do F2P only play F2P because it gives them a way to farm levelers?
Or are F2P getting farmed by levelers?

Because youve asserted both

Not sure where I said that... Actually think I said they do it cuz they're broke.

 

[Chops]

Yeah I'm pretty sympathetic to this view. I also just on principle think that if you're unsubbed and level capped that you're xp is functionally off. This would mean that you should be queueing with other xp off players anyways.
Regardless the complaints about having fresh new players joining their bracket is pretty irritating when so many brackets were just ousted.

I do think it's wonky that theres "level capped" and "xp off" as two separate things. And I do sympathize with the position that "its unfair paying customers cant play their twinks in casual ques while freeloaders can" because really, thats the only thing we CAN do and its the only thing anyone here cares about. But you and I, because we're twinks, think of this as a privilege. Other players look at F2P and just think about how restrictive it is. We dont actually have privileges if you're the type of player who enjoys seeing alot of content and not just 3 BGs. So, a shift in perspective and all of a sudden the paying players complaints seem weird.

"Turn xp on and play casual BGs to your hearts content. Que all day every day. Whats the problem?" This is how Blizz (and most other players) look at it.

But look. Lets ignore Neon for a second. Maybe I'm alone in this but I dont terribly mind vets. Me, Fat Al and Goatnut beat a couple vet teams last night. They dont "ruin" games in the way 29s did pre patch. Sure, I'm gonna poke some fun at vets because a little banter back and forth is probably good but really, its a compelling playstyle. I HAVE vet toons. I want the vet community to thrive and do cool shit like vet wargames and vet arenas. I would like to participate in them.

But I also really want to encourage you guys to check out pure F2P. Not because I dont wanna get beat up in BGs but because pure F2P is undeniably fun. The starting from scratch, the grinding, the restrictions, it all feels very Vanilla-esque. Trying to push for 3k achievement points, the 4k, then 5k... it feels a little outlaw. A little punk. Like, you shouldnt be wandering around the broken isles but here you are.

And there's really no better time to try it. Really. This could very well be the pinnacle of F2P in wow, its a real opportunity to bring about a renaissance in the playstyle and Im a little heartbroken to see that a few people have turned yall off of it. Im, no doubt, a little responsible for that too. For my part I apologize and hope yall will give it a shot.

 

[Lateraldrop]

Idk a good part of the levelers have enchanted BoAs anyway the difference is minimal. I play both pure ftp and a vet chanted holy priest. While playing ftp there will be people more powerful than you, that's true. Does it ruin the game? Not really, game still plays fine. You will not find equality in rbgs in any bracket the expectation is ridiculous. Seems like allot of pointless complaining to me.

 

[Ayden]

I do think it's wonky that theres "level capped" and "xp off" as two separate things. And I do sympathize with the position that "its unfair paying customers cant play their twinks in casual ques while freeloaders can" because really, thats the only thing we CAN do and its the only thing anyone here cares about. But you and I, because we're twinks, think of this as a privilege. Other players look at F2P and just think about how restrictive it is.

I generally don't mind this at all. From a societal perspective I do genuinely believe that the games I play would be better if they were locked behind significant pay gates. (15$ a month I consider to be pretty significant) I don't really see this as free loading nor do I really believe that the game would fall apart if people stopped paying subs. Runescape is a great example of having an overwhelmingly active F2P community that no one considers to be freeloading. I also don't really think it's unfair that this bracket sees more play, that seems like a really fucking stupid position. I don't get upset when my favorite television show stops airing but other people get new seasons of theirs.

We dont actually have privileges if you're the type of player who enjoys seeing alot of content and not just 3 BGs.

I don't think this is a line of logic you want to go down to be fair. Assigning 'privileges' to what is effectively a choice to most of the F2P players is just silly. Many of the 'pure F2P' players I know also just pay the 15$ to play the full game on another account. So like nah. Pass on that one.

I also think that it's a lie for about 90% of F2P players that they just REALLY enjoy the content. I can't prove this obviously but I mean, the reason that I'm 'vet' atm is because I don't 15$ of enjoyment out of the full game at the moment but I think post engages in this later so I'll wait.

So, a shift in perspective and all of a sudden the paying players complaints seem weird.

"Turn xp on and play casual BGs to your hearts content. Que all day every day. Whats the problem?" This is how Blizz (and most other players) look at it.

But look. Lets ignore Neon for a second. Maybe I'm alone in this but I dont terribly mind vets. Me, Fat Al and Goatnut beat a couple vet teams last night. They dont "ruin" games in the way 29s did pre patch. Sure, I'm gonna poke some fun at vets because a little banter back and forth is probably good but really, its a compelling playstyle. I HAVE vet toons. I want the vet community to thrive and do cool shit like vet wargames and vet arenas. I would like to participate in them.

The point that I think you're attempting to make here is that BGs can get ruined for F2P players. Although I don't think you've made a very necessary claim about why any of us should give a shit about ruining BGs for F2P players. It is quite interesting to me how (maybe not you specifically) the community at large cares about the health of a bracket built around people sitting at the bottom of their level bracket with subpar enchantments.

First, spanking and bullying F2P players seems just fine to me.
Y'all are basically levelers except you've filled your slots. If the bracket was actually built around stroking cocks to bullying people with bad enchantments and under levelled toons I'm not sure why the issue is with 29s nor Vets for that matter. (granted you've said vets aren't an issue but everyone else has) In my honest opinion, my RBGs as a geared level 29 arcane mage was when F2P players (players who knew their gear was shit) chose to play on accounts that couldn't compete with mine. That was frustrating. So yeah I'm not sure that anyone should really give a fuck about the little myomas that plague RBGs at 20-29.
To be completely honest, I think F2P should be considered xp off. Additionally I think you shouldn't be able to queue with normal players.

Second, 29s was a unique portion of the bracket that gave access to a lot more than 19s (the alternative low bracket) and F2P.
The 20-29 bracket is the first bracket with the new allied races. It's the first bracket to use mounts. It provides many specs with spells that make them multifaceted like giving disc priest shadow mend and counterspells to mages. Oh yeah and then if you had any interest in playing any other bracket or just messaging your friends you needed to be on a Bnet that has a paid subscription. Claiming that the restrictions you put on your toons should be the basis for the rest of us is literally comical, but complaining when those restrictions make you so irrelevant that you get graveyard farmed is p ridiculous.


But I also really want to encourage you guys to check out pure F2P. Not because I dont wanna get beat up in BGs but because pure F2P is undeniably fun. The starting from scratch, the grinding, the restrictions, it all feels very Vanilla-esque. Trying to push for 3k achievement points, the 4k, then 5k... it feels a little outlaw. A little punk. Like, you shouldnt be wandering around the broken isles but here you are.

And there's really no better time to try it. Really. This could very well be the pinnacle of F2P in wow, its a real opportunity to bring about a renaissance in the playstyle and Im a little heartbroken to see that a few people have turned yall off of it. Im, no doubt, a little responsible for that too.[/QUOTE]

There's actually nothing I hate more than the type of game content outlined here. I hate vanilla WoW. I don't like starting from scratch. The grind isn't worth it. Achievement hunting outside of PVP is wildly boring.
Might be mildly fun if you could at least pm people or get into parties together lol. RIP.
All that aside, the non Vet community seems mad elitist. Probably a good indication that it's not worth the time.

For my part I apologize and hope yall will give it a shot.

Poor sale on F2P. Worse apology tbf.

 

[tomxoqt]

vet master-race
f2p weak and poor
get over it

 

[LZ]

In my honest opinion, my RBGs as a geared level 29 arcane mage was when F2P players (players who knew their gear was shit) chose to play on accounts that couldn't compete with mine. That was frustrating. So yeah I'm not sure that anyone should really give a fuck about the little myomas that plague RBGs at 20-29.

Not to start a whole pissing contest or anything but this perspective is basically ignoring the entire legacy of 29 twinking... it was a slow, pretty niche bracket in between the hardcore kiddos at 19 and 39... f2p happened.. f2ps lived in a golden age of peace and prosperity with competitive battlegrounds... 24 twinks were born as people realized they had an infinite supply of queues and people to beat the absolute crap out of... bracket expanded.. 29 twinks continued to be popular for the same reason- semi competitive matches against a popular and active group of engaged players with a structural disadvantage...

I think it's kinda hilarious to take this position, when if f2ps didn't exist, you'd just be facing levelers who were even less competitive, and more importantly, the main basis for twinking at the end of the 20 bracket was a response to the very presence of f2ps in the first place... since like... cata... which was 10 years ago. I'd be happy to see your grandfathered twink demonstrating that you predate f2ps.... If not, you're basically pussyaching about the people who were there first.

Like, why do you have a 29 twink in the first place, if not to leech off the popularity of f2p? Before the brackets split... You could've gone to 19, if you wanted games full of twinks, or 39, if you wanted a more interesting and complex pvp experience...reminds me of what 24s used to say about desperately wanting competition, not trying to beat up on f2ps... when they chose to cap exp at 24, not 29, not 19, not 39....

 

[Ayden]

Not to start a whole pissing contest or anything but this perspective is basically ignoring the entire legacy of 29 twinking... it was a slow, pretty niche bracket in between the hardcore kiddos at 19 and 39... f2p happened.. f2ps lived in a golden age of peace and prosperity with competitive battlegrounds... 24 twinks were born as people realized they had an infinite supply of queues and people to beat the absolute crap out of... bracket expanded.. 29 twinks continued to be popular for the same reason- semi competitive matches against a popular and active group of engaged players with a structural disadvantage...

I think it's kinda hilarious to take this position, when if f2ps didn't exist, you'd just be facing levelers who were even less competitive, and more importantly, the main basis for twinking at the end of the 20 bracket was a response to the very presence of f2ps in the first place... since like... cata... which was 10 years ago. I'd be happy to see your grandfathered twink demonstrating that you predate f2ps.... If not, you're basically pussyaching about the people who were there first.

Like, why do you have a 29 twink in the first place, if not to leech off the popularity of f2p? Before the brackets split... You could've gone to 19, if you wanted games full of twinks, or 39, if you wanted a more interesting and complex pvp experience...reminds me of what 24s used to say about desperately wanting competition, not trying to beat up on f2ps... when they chose to cap exp at 24, not 29, not 19, not 39....

is this a joke or did you expect a serious response to this heap

 

[Ayden]

https://imgur.com/nPzOirD

 

[Dcm]

Yeah I'm pretty sympathetic to this view. I also just on principle think that if you're unsubbed and level capped that you're xp is functionally off. This would mean that you should be queueing with other xp off players anyways.
Regardless the complaints about having fresh new players joining their bracket is pretty irritating when so many brackets were just ousted.

The weird thing though is that back when f2p was first implemented, which was cata and it was vastly growing in mop, that’s exactly how it was. F2ps never queued with levelers before legion where they integrated queues. I don’t know if f2p slipped their mind this time around or what, but it’s not like it’s a unique concept for their queues to be separate as well

 

[Chops]

The conversation has kinda passed this by while I was at work but I think you deserve a response.

The point that I think you're attempting to make here is that BGs can get ruined for F2P players. Although I don't think you've made a very necessary claim about why any of us should give a shit about ruining BGs for F2P players. It is quite interesting to me how (maybe not you specifically) the community at large cares about the health of a bracket built around people sitting at the bottom of their level bracket with subpar enchantments.

I dont think games can get ruined for F2P players in a way thats any different from them being ruined for levelers. And I dont think vets really ruin them post 8.1.5

Y'all are basically levelers except you've filled your slots... To be completely honest, I think F2P should be considered xp off. Additionally I think you shouldn't be able to queue with normal players.

Why? If we're basically levelers (and we are, we gain XP past level 20) why shouldnt we be in with levelers? If we're just the bottom of the bracket with subpar enchants, what harm exists in us facing say, a level 27 mage with enchanted BoAs? The only edge we have there is experience.

I have yet to see an argument about why trial accounts should be in xp-off ques that doesnt come from a salty ass 29 bitter that his HK farm got nuked. Though, I wouldnt cry if trials got their own que separate from levelers and separate from vets and 29s. But I doubt blizz has any interest in catering to us that much.

Claiming that the restrictions you put on your toons should be the basis for the rest of us is literally comical

Im not claiming that.

There's actually nothing I hate more than the type of game content outlined here. I hate vanilla WoW. I don't like starting from scratch. The grind isn't worth it. Achievement hunting outside of PVP is wildly boring.

To each their own

Might be mildly fun if you could at least pm people or get into parties together lol. RIP.

Yea, F2Ps totally cant communicate or form groups

All that aside, the non Vet community seems mad elitist. Probably a good indication that it's not worth the time.

Think of me what you want, and I understand that Neon and Dasha can be pretty harsh. But the F2P community at large is pretty excellent. Its just that most of them dont stray out of the F2P forum.

Poor sale on F2P.

If all you want is to play a glorified MOBA, then yea, F2P aint for you.

Worse apology tbf.

It was an attempt at an olive branch, I dont really have anything to apologize for so my heart wasnt really in it. Good catch.