EU+US The best tank 101 tWink?

Blood DKs are the least equipment gated. Prot pallies and Guardian druids if you manage to get the M-HFC trinket would be my two choices if I could have any gear I want.
 
Shunkley said:
Blood DKs are the least equipment gated. Prot pallies and Guardian druids if you manage to get the M-HFC trinket would be my two choices if I could have any gear I want.
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To be fair I really only have experience with DK/DH at 101 so far. I actually think DH will pull ahead of DK once I can get mine at the same Gear level, ~800 iLvL. At 758 my DH already pushes about the same DPS as my 801 DK but takes quite a bit more damage. My DK on the other hand takes almost no damage at all but can't Heal back up as fast as my DH can.
 
DeLindsay said:
DH will pull ahead of DK
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Speaking only of Kazzak in tanaan jungle, it's much easier solo on my 101 DH in lesser gear than my 102 DK.

I dont think it's the extra level scaling. The DH takes a little harder hit from fel breath but handles everything else much better IMO. The DH is 751 ilvl or so, and the DK is around 775. The DH does have 10% leech from gear, tho... and.... i dont truly know how to play either properly. Lol.

Neither has even one golden artifact trait, tho. Might turn things around down the road... DH tree looks kinda lame.
 
Depending on what 3rd stat you get can make all classes really over the top. My DH is Avoidance heavy and can solo a lot with the amount of self heals. I imagine that if other classes that have the same they could be very much the same. I do prefer DH for mobility.
 
On a side note has anyone played brewmaster? Even with near full time uptime on ironskin brew they seem pretty lack lustre unless you have tons of leech pieces... Any clue on how their dps is?
 
Gonariga said:
On a side note has anyone played brewmaster? Even with near full time uptime on ironskin brew they seem pretty lack lustre unless you have tons of leech pieces... Any clue on how their dps is?
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If you're properly Gearing your 101, you should have 20% Avoidance (requires ~560 Avoidance, or an iLvL 855+ Helm/Chest) and the rest full Leech. Speed is fine when you need the movement, say WPvP and certainly clearing old Raids, but for PvE (WoD Raids+) Speed is of little importance so it should be pure Leech after the 20% Hard Cap for Avoidance has been reached.

Once everyone starts obtaining several 890+ pcs, we should all be 20% Avoidance, ~22% Leech (ALL World Epics + HFC pcs with Leech) and whatever Secondary setup is best for your Class/Spec.

EDIT: To clarify what I mean by Speed being of little importance for PvE, I'm referring to 101's clearing HFC Mythic Weekly, doing Legion WB's and other Named 110 Elites. Farming, Chest Dungeon runs, etc, Speed is of great importance.
 
I'm still convinced that DK > DH but have no evidence for it :p

DeLindsay said:
If you're properly Gearing your 101, you should have 20% Avoidance (requires ~560 Avoidance, or an iLvL 855+ Helm/Chest) and the rest full Leech. Speed is fine when you need the movement, say WPvP and certainly clearing old Raids, but for PvE (WoD Raids+) Speed is of little importance so it should be pure Leech after the 20% Hard Cap for Avoidance has been reached.

Once everyone starts obtaining several 890+ pcs, we should all be 20% Avoidance, ~22% Leech (ALL World Epics + HFC pcs with Leech) and whatever Secondary setup is best for your Class/Spec.
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Avoidance is nice to have if it just happens to be on your gear but I didn't think highly of it as a tank. AoE damage is usually intended to be survived by the entire raid with the exception of frontal cones, so as a tank it's often trivial. Maybe the explosions on Xhul and orb damage on Iskar but most bosses were only difficult to survive because of stacking debuffs.

You'll appreciate speed a lot more if you ever try soloing Tectus mythic, when you're surrounded by 4 Earthen Pillars and moving a fraction of a second too late gets you insta-killed :p

Leech is by far king of the stats though and I slightly regret not finding a full set of it. I might even rate it higher than all the other secondary stats - pretty sure we can get over 50% at a decent ilvl which is a lot of healing with the DPS we do at 101.
 
I'd go with Blood Dk, or Vengance DH, Vengance can obtain over 40x itt's own hp depending how many mobs are killed at once, Blood dk just loses no hp what so ever
 
Aelobin said:
Avoidance is nice to have if it just happens to be on your gear but I didn't think highly of it as a tank. AoE damage is usually intended to be survived by the entire raid with the exception of frontal cones, so as a tank it's often trivial. Maybe the explosions on Xhul and orb damage on Iskar but most bosses were only difficult to survive because of stacking debuffs.

You'll appreciate speed a lot more if you ever try soloing Tectus mythic, when you're surrounded by 4 Earthen Pillars and moving a fraction of a second too late gets you insta-killed :p

Leech is by far king of the stats though and I slightly regret not finding a full set of it. I might even rate it higher than all the other secondary stats - pretty sure we can get over 50% at a decent ilvl which is a lot of healing with the DPS we do at 101.
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My reasoning for saying that you should cap Avoidance then go pure Leech (for Mythic HFC > Legion PvE Content, except soloing Dungeons) is because with a single piece of Armor, 855+, you can hard cap the value at 20%. No other Tertiary Stat can give you that high of a value from a single item, therefore it carries a much higher Itemization value. Is it 'needed' on well geared 101's, probably not, but you're only losing 3.5-7% Leech/Speed if you chose not to take Avoidance and it gives you the option to basically stand in stupid instead of having to move out of it, mostly.

I 100% agree that there are certain cases where a full Speed set would be superior, and Players making 101 Twinks should strive to acquire a full Speed set and a full Avoidance/Leech set, IMHO. You are also correct that we should be able to reach roughly 50% Leech, but that may require crossing Armor types, depending on what Class you are and what Armor type they use. My ~22% is solely based on only using that Class's main Armor type as each World Epic gives between 3.5-7% depending on it's iLvL, as well as having the Helm or Chest with Avoidance on it.
 
I'd much rather have 7% leech than 20% reduced damage from AoE spells (especially as a tank) but I decided to run a few numbers just out of curiosity:
- Kormrok "Pound" = 96.2k damage per second (mythic, unavoidable) = 19.2k/s reduction by avoidance
- Jubei'thos "Felstorm" = 33.2k per second (mythic, unavoidable) = 6.6k/s reduction by avoidance
- Velhari "Despoiled Ground" = 49.7k per second (mythic, avoidable) = 9.9k/s reduction by avoidance
- Socrethar "Felblaze Charge" = 164.3k per second (mythic, avoidable) = 32.8k/s reduction by avoidance

A well geared tank can do about 150k dps at 101, so with 7% more leech you'd do 10.5k more hps.
A well geared DPS can do about 250k dps at 101, so with 7% more leech you'd do 17.5k more hps.

So already you're healing through most the damage you'd mitigate by choosing avoidance, but the main difference is that the healing from leech is useful for all damage and avoidance is only useful for AoE. This also doesn't take into account the nerf buff on all the bosses which reduces the value of avoidance further.
 
If you want a straight-forward opinion, I'll just say I think Protection Warriors may be great tanks if you stack Versatility and Mastery.
Ignore Pain can absorb huge amounts of damage with more Mastery and Versatility! (Ignore Pain absorbs 90% incoming + Artifact traits) Add some leech to that and you'll be keeping yourself up for a long time for any fight!

Of course, there are other classes. But so far that'd be my Number 1 choice to try out 101 twink tanking.
 
I've now done Kazzak solo on both my 101's. My Blood DK is 801 equipped with ~10% Leech and my Veng DH is 774 equipped with no Leech, both have ~19% Avoidance. I can say Healing up after "Now You Die" is easy on both while my DH takes much more damage and my DK's Health barely moves. I was actually surprised that my DK still out DPS's my DH by a fair margin. My fastest solo kill on my DK is 147 seconds and on my DH it was 210 seconds today. This is with Fishbrul, WoD Flask, WoD Potion and 'Call to Arms' Garrison Ability on both, and Tormmok on my DK.

In any case, both are super easy to solo Kazzak. DH easily beats out DK for movement, while DK (so far) still beats DH in the "Tank" department but my DH still has several pcs to go to equal my DK.
 
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