Subtlety Rogues On Le PTR

I'd be pushing for more survivability because if PvP goes in the direction that I hope/believe it will, PvP will rely on CC MUCH more than damage and a dead rogue can't kick. I believe Engineering may be a VERY valuable profession to have in MoP. It already is overlooked but I believe this will make it much more viable. Sadly Lifestealing, Fiery and Crusader still are intended for Vanilla gameplay and not Cata or MoP. It would be awesome to have Lifestealing proc for 100 or so and have fiery proc for 120... I guess I'm just sick of the lack of variety in viable weapon enchants since Wotlk (among other things) =P
 
Saxxon said:
did evasion get a nerf to? it says "50 % increase dodge chance" now and doesnt include the "25% chance for ranged to miss" to
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No, in MoP ranged attacks can be dodged.
 
Eliot said:
No, in MoP ranged attacks can be dodged.
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yep figured it out this morning, this is actually a buff for evasion then ! (one of the few buffs rogues get lol;P)
 
rithonuwy said:
curley wtf are you talkin about, if your team is good, there should be cc, meaning you should always be able to be on your target, if not your bad nuff said
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What about if you get cc'ed would require some overexertion like ret pallys today to do any dmg.
 
Mocha said:
I feel there has been a lack of chatter especially about rogues on the PTR. So heres a very rough and brief overview of what I have gained in a few days of playing a sub rogue.

So to start things off:
  • No thrown weapons
  • No Gogue
  • No Sprint
  • No Shadowstep
  • No Instant Poison

  • Gaining Slice And Dice
  • Gaining Hemo (Sub)
  • Gaining Deadly Poison

  • Meadow Ring of Eludng nerfed to 2 agility 2 dodge making Ring of Defense bis for dodge (if anyone cares)
  • Resist rings are now +4 ____ Resistance
  • 10 ap bracers are now 8 ap
  • 4/4 gloves are now 3/3

My rogue has about 54% dodge and 1650 hp unbuffed (no boa helm) 506 ap and 40 crit%

Hemo is 140% weapon damage (203%) with a dagger equipped (mainhand?) with a 24 second dot of 50% of the hemo hit strike.

At the moment on the PTR it is expected that Dagger + Nondagger should be bis for the increased hemo damage, however personally I have found that with a dagger equipped in offhand or even mainhand, hemo is not critting for as much as without a dagger....

Shadowfang+Wingblade was giving me about 140 noncrits 240-300 crits and Shadowfang + Dagger was giving me roughly 240-280 crits

Rogues retain the ability to Throw even without a thrown weapon and it is dirty... You can literally spam throw for 20s-50s every .5 seconds in addition to 100+ deadly poison procs...

Eviscerate with max combo points is critting for roughly 1,100. Keep in mind my rogue on PTR is missing BOA Helm and my 2nd Shadowfang.

I have only been on the PTR for a few days... can anyone let me know what you guys think of rogues atm and if my information is incorrect as a result of being tested for such a limited amount of time?

I feel that rogues will require MUCH more skill in MoP than Cata for sure. Playing my rogue gives me a feeling similar to playing a rogue in The Burning Crusade.

Although Rogues are losing a lot of abilities that are making them so useful today, I feel a good portion of rogues will avoid the challenge and play something else but rogues in my opinion will be anything but inviable. Perhaps a warrior would be the prime melee candidate in MoP (I have yet to test them) due to the dual charge/in combat charge. I can assure that rogues will bust out a LOT damage over both short periods of time and a long periods as well, making them very useful for non-kiting scenarios such as a Flag Room fight. I would expect rogues will not be the primary class for getting credit for the return in MoP (for those who actually thing that credit for a return matters, it does not) due to their loss of shadowstep and sprint.

I personally am getting the feeling that MoP will be fantastic for 19s and a rogue seems to be extremely balanced so far. I can't wait to hear more from you all!
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no backstab

rogues in BC had
-more talents to choose from
-sprint
-backstab
-gouge
-garrote
-slice and dice
-sinister strike that actually did serious damage, now in CATA white MH and OH attacks are doing more damage than SS
- dodge that worked, i have a rogue 51% dodge. i go up against a ret for example and seal, CS, random swing, TV, random swing all hit, not one dodge on 4 melee attacks. diminshing returns aren't even there, at least even 1of the 4 should dodge


disagree, one fear and you have no way back to your target, one nova....trinket then what, no point in trinketing anymore. you will not get back on your target and no sprint to get away and reqroup. one POINT BLANK concussive/scatter and a hunter can just walk away from you, no sprint, no SHS after a trinket. hunter does a DE and nets you really balanced. mage CoC's you, then blinks...rogue is slowed and kite candy

blizz robbed the rogues of basic abilities that they had even in van-WOW/BC coming up on MOP. many classes have talents...multiple talents now that you didn't see till level-29 to 50+ PVP are now at level-10-19. such as:
-druids cat (along many abilities like stealth, etc.) and TF, etc
-warlocks felguard and UA, etc
-mage blink, elemental (along with pet nova), etc
-hunter DE, scatter, etc
-shamans ES, blow backs, etc
-priests penance, renew, etc

WOTLK at least rogues had their original talents MOP is totally raping them, but where gimped bad due to what others were given. for those johnnies with short memories....WTF brought the rogue back was CATA and ShS. shadowfangs were selling for 10-15K prior to CATA....it was the johnnies rerolling rogues which were somewhat viable again and veterans who deleted their rogues back in WOTLK rerolling too.

in WOTLK rogues had to wait on trinket and sprint CD, resulting in them staying too long in stealth, they ended up being a liability to teams because of this and that was with the talents MOP is taking away. a rogue in MOP will have to stay in stealth even longer, waste too much time setting up, and sapping is the worse thing you could do in many instances

you look at all the blue posts/QA sessions called class balance analysis, it's predominately all about 4 classes. rogues aren't speaking up, players who own them aren't speaking up or even asking questions that get responded too....even at 85.

rogues overall were still suffering in CATA after the initial AMB/BS nerf, one of the reasons blizz added the legendary daggers into the expansion. and those who chime in about RMP or PMR comps.....it's the PM that make sthe comp more than the rogue when it is all said and done

new level 15 talents are pretty much crap for a 19 twink rogue...all three
 
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Agree with shanker, I made a post about it on the Blizzard websit and everybody spited on me, they told me how do you balance the gameplay lvl 19, thats not hard as Shanker said when a rogue become kited after the ambush there is a little problem...
Chaman : Wolf instant (+bump elem), Goodbye rogue
Hunt : Scatter Shot (Trinket), Disengage (+sprint with talent), Goodbye rogue
Pala : Sprint (/pity), Goodbye rogue
Priest : fear + mind control...
Mage : Nova (trinket) Blink + cast while running, Goodbye rogue
Blizzard should really change a lot of things (sprint pala lvl 15 wtf??) but they dont give a fuck about 19s

Sorry for my bad english
 
I'm wondering if Rogues would be more effective assisting the flag carrier than dropping one lol. Their damage is very nice but there literally is no way to avoid being kited. The more I look up what other classes are going to be like the more I realize that EVERYTHING has great movement except rogue... The game was way better when there was no GW, Travel, Blink, Disengage, Shadowstep etc

Keep up the chatter please! I literally have only spent a few hours on the PTR and have yet to duel a 19 or play another class =P
 
I heard Warlocks can't cast corruption or hand of guldan in demon form (demonology)
hand of guldan is instant cast and slows, and still have fear
Targets inflicted by immolate will be slowed when hit by conflag guaranteed
 
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You know what, I could live with without sprint and step if they gave us crippling poisons. That would truly be a fair traidoff
 
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