State of the Twink - Post False Apocalypse.

[Hunnybuns]

Its not hard to get 19s pops, just takes reasonable effort from people.

Get a queue night, log on and queue when your suppose to!

Also, need to report queue bugs to blizzard, take it upon yourself to fix this issue. Ways we have found to help avoid queue bugging. Queue bugging is when you cannot see the average wait time. You are out of the queue system if it lasts over 1 min

When you queue, don't move afterwards. Changing zones/areas tends to bug your queue. Don't wait for the pops to start to log on, be there to queue up

 

[Srs]

Its not hard to get 19s pops, just takes reasonable effort from people.

Get a queue night, log on and queue when your suppose to!

Also, need to report queue bugs to blizzard, take it upon yourself to fix this issue. Ways we have found to help avoid queue bugging. Queue bugging is when you cannot see the average wait time. You are out of the queue system if it lasts over 1 min

When you queue, don't move afterwards. Changing zones/areas tends to bug your queue. Don't wait for the pops to start to log on, be there to queue up

I noticed my queues starting and stopping, is the thinking that this has something to do with the removal of Tarren Mill vs. Southshore without a client patch?

 

[Conq]

some of us actually like pug warsongs tho. Ally killing ques with wargames day after day is the major reason for my recent inactivity and i'm sure others as well. It'll be a sad day for me when pugs stop happening altogether. Even tho I would like to partake in wargames they are a whole lot of work to set up vs pugs which require literally 0 setup once it's popping. Some of us play 19s because it is more casual and taking that element out of 19s is going to turn a lot of people away from the bracket. Just my 2 cents, not saying wargames are a bad idea i just really enjoy wsg pugs at 19 and it's a shame that the majority of ally doesn't feel the same way. I would like to see wsg pugs keep happening but i guess wargames could be a very good alternative for days that don't get pug pops, I just don't like how wargames are killing ques for the rest of us and how horde never seems to be included in these wargames leaving at least half the community feeling left out.

I like Warsongs too when they are Balanced, I'm not entirely done doing Warsongs I just think that after I move SCC to BH Horde everyone will get to do more War Games for a number of reasons.

I think locating everyone to just one server and effectively killing queues for those who aren't on that server is a terrible idea. How will anyone new that's not on Bleeding Hollow get any exposure to 19 twinking? I know that Bleeding Hollow is regarded as the home of 19 twinks, but I feel like cutting out any new players to the bracket will only worse the situation we have now, unless everyone is cool with just playing 5v5 wargames within their relative social communities every night.

I think it's good we are having this conversation first of all even if some of us disagree, That is the dream of course - in regards to war games and conversation - but I see no reason to completely kill of Qs, i'm just saying that War Games are becoming what its about, why not include everyone? Guilds are not necessary to be an active person in the twink community, with Battle Tags and all, a little bit of effort is all it takes to get involved, people need to be telling people about Twinkinfo.com, tell them all the info they need is in the 19s section, or whatever bracket, that's what more people need to do, and not be afraid to network.

I disagree 100%. We had pops nightly until wargames happened nightly in an effort to kill the pops.

This bracket is already low on people....every single battlegroup had multiple times the 19 twinks that are around in total now. Have to keep it going for new players and players not part of the cliques or else it won't happen. Some players don't even read this forum - they just queue. And a few nights of no pops means they move on to other things.

MYT is rebuilding to be both a 19 and 29 based guild like we always were (played 39/49 as well but those are quite inactive now, and we never had premades in that brackets back in the day). People have been asking me "what should me or my friend finish first - 19's or 29's? My answer has been 19 to date - it's going to change to 29. Frankly people need pops to remain interested and this alliance wargame bs has destroyed the bracket. So we'll focus on dominating 29 first.

That being said, not saying we're not moving forward with our plans for 19 - still plan on organizing some horde wargames once a few ppl transfer / finish toons. But there's absolutely no way that's a replacement for pops.

Friday there was a post for wsg pops. There was mass horde queueing but no pops - yet alliance had wargames so clearly had enough. This cancer is killing the bracket by causing people to look elsewhere and killing new player interest/development in its infancy.

MYT I've been your fan of the guild since some time in 2005 when my 29 guild qued into yours and we split the team and dominated the alliance and talked shit as guilds the entire time in Arathi Basin, it was one of my most memorable moments in twinking. 29s is trash mate - unless organized.

post #2 (And I do appreciate seeing someone voice their passionate opinions)

This post is 100% accurate for the more competitive players. Especially the ones talking about how they are "sick" of level 10s, or "jajas".



However, this also kills any opportunity for players who aren't "in with the BH crew". As I've said in the past, the competitive gameplay should be held in Wargames and I agree with that. But we should ALL put that second to getting healthy PUGs and getting newer players involved. Moving to strictly wargames creates 0 possibility of growth as a community and shuns away players who aren't popular with the cool kids.


Even if you're on BH and good, you'll still have to find your own group because one of the people organizing the games may not like you. This results in exclusion on many levels, not only from this, but exclusion of newer players and older players who are returning.

In theory it would be AMAZING if all of us twinks were on BH playing wargames all day long together. Unfortunately, 19s are sooooooooo full of cliques and we're really not getting any new players from BH. Everybody transferred there. No one was really FROM BH. I don't see any indigenous BH players now all of a sudden deciding to make a 19. 19s have been huge on BH for a long time and if people were going to join 19s on BH with it being their home realm, they would have done so at some point before now.


Most new players that I encounter are on random realms that no one has ever even thought of. We should focus on growing in numbers as a community over favoriting competition. It's putting our own competitive desires aside for the health of the community.


I'd rather have a community of 250 twinks at many different skill levels playing PUGs all day than a group of 18 "elite" players who only play with themselves all day. With the amount of new players I've seen in PUGs on realms that I've never even thought of, I know for a fact that we can grow as a community in numbers if people would put their competitive desires aside and favor growth as a community. (Been saying this since 2011)


These are just my personal views backed by my passion for 19s.


Cheers,
Mocha

One of primary reasons I want to move SCC to Bleeding Hollow is because I feel that SCC is rapidly approaching a glass cieling, I do not think Old Argent Dawn twinks will come back for veteran accounts, these are people who rolled on an RP server, they are done. So what do I do to maintain recruitment after the winter? Go where everyone else is, the opportunities are monumental from a Guild Leaders perspective.

Not giving up on 19, just going to do pugs in a bracket where pugs pop. Alliance killed 19 queues and continue to kill them. Not 100% of their players obviously but enough to care. Same DBs are now running premades in 29 that GY farm and grab flag and refuse to get 3rd cap. Going to get MYT premades and teach them something about how that feels.

If 19's pop we'll be there. I queue it all the time, particularly if someone calls out to queue a certain night. But recruiting a bunch of ppl to come to a bracket with absolutely no pugs and just ignore a bracket with pugs is a recipe for guild failure. I don't care about the F2P vs P2P drama. We're just going to queue and take care of these alliance premades I see every day I play 29.

So your doing the same thing now just working on 29s because your preferred bracket is as active? Just contribute more to its activity, thats what I do 19s keep be busy as all hell in game, guild leading is a different play style in its own, if you want to take it to that level.

Its not hard to get 19s pops, just takes reasonable effort from people.

Get a queue night, log on and queue when your suppose to!

Also, need to report queue bugs to blizzard, take it upon yourself to fix this issue. Ways we have found to help avoid queue bugging. Queue bugging is when you cannot see the average wait time. You are out of the queue system if it lasts over 1 min

When you queue, don't move afterwards. Changing zones/areas tends to bug your queue. Don't wait for the pops to start to log on, be there to queue up

I think HB has a really good point here guys are there any alliance who would be willing to be on horde to get Qs going, even on an alt? Thats what SCC did at first to force a pop to happen, it worked with help from others.

 

[Rusks]

you still havent adressed war-games vs horde, last time you guys (2 teams on alliance) ignored our horde team the whole night.

 

[MYT]

I like Warsongs too when they are Balanced, I'm not entirely done doing Warsongs I just think that after I move SCC to BH Horde everyone will get to do more War Games for a number of reasons.


I think it's good we are having this conversation first of all even if some of us disagree, That is the dream of course - in regards to war games and conversation - but I see no reason to completely kill of Qs, i'm just saying that War Games are becoming what its about, why not include everyone? Guilds are not necessary to be an active person in the twink community, with Battle Tags and all, a little bit of effort is all it takes to get involved, people need to be telling people about Twinkinfo.com, tell them all the info they need is in the 19s section, or whatever bracket, that's what more people need to do, and not be afraid to network.


MYT I've been your fan of the guild since some time in 2005 when my 29 guild qued into yours and we split the team and dominated the alliance and talked shit as guilds the entire time in Arathi Basin, it was one of my most memorable moments in twinking. 29s is trash mate - unless organized.



One of primary reasons I want to move SCC to Bleeding Hollow is because I feel that SCC is rapidly approaching a glass cieling, I do not think Old Argent Dawn twinks will come back for veteran accounts, these are people who rolled on an RP server, they are done. So what do I do to maintain recruitment after the winter? Go where everyone else is, the opportunities are monumental from a Guild Leaders perspective.


So your doing the same thing now just working on 29s because your preferred bracket is as active? Just contribute more to its activity, thats what I do 19s keep be busy as all hell in game, guild leading is a different play style in its own, if you want to take it to that level.



I think HB has a really good point here guys are there any alliance who would be willing to be on horde to get Qs going, even on an alt? Thats what SCC did at first to force a pop to happen, it worked with help from others.

I've played a LOT of 29 since I returned and agree it's more often than not trash in pugs. But it's still great to get pops and sometimes it's a lot of fun. Lots of "premades" lately (5 or more 29 queueing together) so group vs group in that setting is reminiscent of the random non-coordinated games that happened way back when - with the general puggers replaced by f2ps (some of who are actually really good, although the avg f2p skill level is clearly lower).

19 is and always will be most of our home bracket and we'll play there. But I have to give ppl a reason to log in most days when they're already bis and 29 offers that. When 19 offers that we'll play there instead.

Nice to see another old schooler.

 

[badmit]

i recently made a shaman on BH Horde, I haven't played 19s in a very long time (mainly played 29/39s with CL) but I'm looking forward to the increased activity in the bracket. Had a handful of fun arenas yesterday, now to just get wsgs to pop

 

[Jetlife]

ya i haven't been able to get into any pug games literally since coming back........ i might just be going AFK at the wrong times most nights but im pretty typically in que on 19s for weeks now........ getting kinda bored of skirmishes cuz of not much comp diversity.... wish i could get in some bgs on some of my 19s altho sadly only got updated alli ones (thnx to superstylin for helping me create my BH ret!)

 

[Mocha]

ya i haven't been able to get into any pug games literally since coming back........ i might just be going AFK at the wrong times most nights but im pretty typically in que on 19s for weeks now........ getting kinda bored of skirmishes cuz of not much comp diversity.... wish i could get in some bgs on some of my 19s altho sadly only got updated alli ones (thnx to superstylin for helping me create my BH ret!)

If people weren't queueing skirmishes at 8 PM EST we would have pops. Skirmishes increase queue times in 2 ways:

1) It takes 4 people out of the BG queue
2) It takes up 1 of 2 queue slots for you to try to get into WSG


People need to be queuing for Random BG and deselecting AB and EOTS for WSG queue #1

And then they need to queue for specific WSG for queue #2


People aren't doing so which is why we aren't getting pops.

 

[Jetlife]

If people weren't queueing skirmishes at 8 PM EST we would have pops. Skirmishes increase queue times in 2 ways:

1) It takes 4 people out of the BG queue
2) It takes up 1 of 2 queue slots for you to try to get into WSG


People need to be queuing for Random BG and deselecting AB and EOTS for WSG queue #1

And then they need to queue for specific WSG for queue #2


People aren't doing so which is why we aren't getting pops.

ya its hard im not gonna stop queing arenas if ppl i know that would que arent on to tell me others are on queing, cuz 19 arenas right now imo are pretty fun if you can get in games that are without ferals and warriors. so fun when youre doing those, i love it!

 

[Honey Badger]

It saddens me to see 19s not doing well. Id also like to say, (ugh) crappppp... Que popped . I been trying to write stuff but dayum these lvl 20-29. 5-7 min que pops.

Moving to BH sounds like a pretty original and creative idea.

 

[Healsatin]

I like Warsongs too when they are Balanced, I'm not entirely done doing Warsongs I just think that after I move SCC to BH Horde everyone will get to do more War Games for a number of reasons.

In order to get 19s to log on enough in order to actually set up wargames randoms need to pop. If wsg isn't going then no one's going to log on their 19s to even see if wargames could happen. I myself generally don't log into wow anymore unless there's a chance that 19s wsg will pop making it nearly impossible to ever be included in these hypothetical wargames unless they're scheduled, and at that rate why not just schedule pugs for that night and then set up wargames after ques die down.

 

[Conq]

you still havent adressed war-games vs horde, last time you guys (2 teams on alliance) ignored our horde team the whole night.

Does that still need to be addressed? Okay, well people on the alliance Teams got DDosd and didn't feel like playing anymore because DDosing takes the fun out of things. I've seen it happen, DDosing is not only childish but it kills games as well. Less War Games are a direct result of DDosing.

 

[Conq]

Just enjoy your twinks.

This bracket doesn't need to be something that requires insane organization with managers and employees. Do your War Games to pass time. Let it come night time, queue up for WSG.

I strongly disagree with the idea of everyone going to BH. First off, BH to me is tied to a negative connotation of having very immature and vulgar teenagers (although some prove me wrong). And like it was said before, you dont want to segregate a whole bracket into 1 realm... no more diversity, no more new comers. People will just simply be left out.

On the contrary, I would encourage people to do like what I saw a lot in Cata. The uprise of guilds on barely known realms (Aerie Peak, Elune, etc). It branches out the twinks, which allows more recruiting; more twinks!

I really disagree, I don't mean to sound conceded but that you need people like Pizza, Myself, Mocha, and other guild leaders and mods to help keep this shit running, I know I went inactive for a week and ques died, that coupled with some changes on BH, Frostmourne, and on twinkinfo effectively stopped ques, that tells me community leaders are necessary, it's not even community leaders but people who participate in this kind of discourse help maintain the bracket. Thats why I use the term Community so much, that's what it is.

 

[Sponsor]

I really disagree, I don't mean to sound conceded but that you need people like Pizza, Myself, Mocha, and other guild leaders and mods to help keep this shit running, I know I went inactive for a week and ques died, that coupled with some changes on BH, Frostmourne, and on twinkinfo effectively stopped ques, that tells me community leaders are necessary, it's not even community leaders but people who participate in this kind of discourse help maintain the bracket. Thats why I use the term Community so much, that's what it is.

I understand you might need a few people on top to organize and stir up the community. The way people behave in face of lack of activity makes it seem like if its a crisis, though

Having some key players to do this is important, but I dont see why they should all be placed on one realm. Having them spread out would help even more. Their nets reach will be greater. More shrimps to catch.

 

[Healsatin]

Does that still need to be addressed? Okay, well people on the alliance Teams got DDosd and didn't feel like playing anymore because DDosing takes the fun out of things. I've seen it happen, DDosing is not only childish but it kills games as well. Less War Games are a direct result of DDosing.

Punishing the entire bracket over the actions of one person seems a little harsh to me. Don't get me wrong I get ddos attacks are a big deal, and are completely unnecessary but so is killing ques early in the night to do wargames just to ignore the horde team once they actually got a group together. You suggest wargames are the answer, but refused to wargame the horde. Seems a little ironic to me

 

[Conq]

Punishing the entire bracket over the actions of one person seems a little harsh to me. Don't get me wrong I get ddos attacks are a big deal, and are completely unnecessary but so is killing ques early in the night to do wargames just to ignore the horde team once they actually got a group together. You suggest wargames are the answer, but refused to wargame the horde. Seems a little ironic to me

War Gaming is hard when your interwebs is down =/

 

[Darkxd]

Punishing the entire bracket over the actions of one person seems a little harsh to me. Don't get me wrong I get ddos attacks are a big deal, and are completely unnecessary but so is killing ques early in the night to do wargames just to ignore the horde team once they actually got a group together. You suggest wargames are the answer, but refused to wargame the horde. Seems a little ironic to me

Add my battletag I would love to setup wargames vs the horde. Darkxdpvp#1622

 

[Rusks]

Does that still need to be addressed? Okay, well people on the alliance Teams got DDosd and didn't feel like playing anymore because DDosing takes the fun out of things. I've seen it happen, DDosing is not only childish but it kills games as well. Less War Games are a direct result of DDosing.

thats 100% bullshit. not a single person went offline that night i watched the stream. all you guys did was IGNORE us we had a full team ready to go and you didnt even respond to us.

 

[Conq]

thats 100% bullshit. not a single person went offline that night i watched the stream. all you guys did was IGNORE us we had a full team ready to go and you didnt even respond to us.

I could go into detail about how your wrong but I won't. I know a number of people got ddos'd that night and a number of people can vouch for that being how War Games got called for the night, i'll leave it at that. Unless were thinking of different situations?

 

[Rusks]

I could go into detail about how your wrong but I won't. I know a number of people got ddos'd that night and a number of people can vouch for that being how War Games got called for the night, i'll leave it at that. Unless were thinking of different situations?

there were two full teams who ignored us, even if half of you went offline there would still be plenty to play vs horde. if you guys didnt want to play us you could have said somthing instead of ignoring us and continuing to play vs each other.