State of the Twink - Post False Apocalypse.

[Conq]

So I'm going to start off by saying we all know that there has been drama in the community en mass, there where at least 5 damaging events to the community in the time span of a week and a half. Between ques being bugged, members getting banned, guilds being inactive, or some other things - it has been a long start to 2015 for 19 twinks, but that okay because we have the Twink cup coming up so people still have 19s in mind. But there's still something left after the twink cup besides broken Ques and that is War Games.

It's my belief that War Games are the 5th Game Changer for twinks, something that has gone under appreciated first X-Realm Games, 2nd was activity in BC, Third was BoA's . 4th was XP off BG's, and now War Games.

I think we are at a cross roads in what will be the History of 19 Twinks in World of Warcraft and I think we can do something awesome- Here is why and how.

The environment is decentralized - We play in a time of Battle.net Friends List, and Twitter, and Phased Realms, we are so connected to each other these days and that's only going to increase with who knows what else, This will enables us to communicate in a far more efficient manner.

We don't need Random Warsong Gulch - What is the point - At this point? 10 years into the twinking business and I can tell you that War Games are what separates the serious twinks from the casuals, it is the most enjoyable thing twinking has to offer (ask anyone whose ever done them) and the casuals can learn to play in a more balanced, objective, strategy based play style, War Games are superior in nearly every way to PuG Warsongs. No one enjoys playing unbalanced games, so why play them when we have the balancable War Game?

It's my belief that Bleeding Hallow is Noah's Ark, the last Vestige, it is the future of twinking - Thats what we have left guys - One Server, with many guilds fighting for the top spot. That's what it's been on and off for a while but We've entered a new Era of Twinking so i'm going to take it upon myself to help solidify it's future I will be moving SCC to Bleeding Hallow at some point in the next month or two (Just gathering the resources IRL).



The Glory of War Games -

Anyone can Make a team
Easy To Balance
Easy to Organize
More Competitive
Easy for Tournaments
Emphasis on Strategy and Skill

This as apposed to PuGs (I don't mean to beat a dead horse but I truly believe War Games are the Future of Twinking and PuG's just suck)

One thing this community really really needs is someone who can make Addons, we would benefit so much from a Addon that enabled us to do Rated BG's and Arenas in some capacity.

We also need people to start Using Twitter, We should have a Sticky thread for these three things: Arena Team Names, and War Game Team Names and Leaders, as well as A list of Hashtags we should use for Whatever purpose.

I apologize for jumping around a bit as I wrote this as I thought of it but i've heard so much negativity going around these days that I felt this thread was necessary.

Keep your eyes on the future guys, also hope for veteran accounts.

 

[Healsatin]

some of us actually like pug warsongs tho. Ally killing ques with wargames day after day is the major reason for my recent inactivity and i'm sure others as well. It'll be a sad day for me when pugs stop happening altogether. Even tho I would like to partake in wargames they are a whole lot of work to set up vs pugs which require literally 0 setup once it's popping. Some of us play 19s because it is more casual and taking that element out of 19s is going to turn a lot of people away from the bracket. Just my 2 cents, not saying wargames are a bad idea i just really enjoy wsg pugs at 19 and it's a shame that the majority of ally doesn't feel the same way. I would like to see wsg pugs keep happening but i guess wargames could be a very good alternative for days that don't get pug pops, I just don't like how wargames are killing ques for the rest of us and how horde never seems to be included in these wargames leaving at least half the community feeling left out.

 

[Apnea]

I think locating everyone to just one server and effectively killing queues for those who aren't on that server is a terrible idea. How will anyone new that's not on Bleeding Hollow get any exposure to 19 twinking? I know that Bleeding Hollow is regarded as the home of 19 twinks, but I feel like cutting out any new players to the bracket will only worse the situation we have now, unless everyone is cool with just playing 5v5 wargames within their relative social communities every night.

 

[Jva]

Can´t disagree more...

 

[MYT]

I disagree 100%. We had pops nightly until wargames happened nightly in an effort to kill the pops.

This bracket is already low on people....every single battlegroup had multiple times the 19 twinks that are around in total now. Have to keep it going for new players and players not part of the cliques or else it won't happen. Some players don't even read this forum - they just queue. And a few nights of no pops means they move on to other things.

MYT is rebuilding to be both a 19 and 29 based guild like we always were (played 39/49 as well but those are quite inactive now, and we never had premades in that brackets back in the day). People have been asking me "what should me or my friend finish first - 19's or 29's? My answer has been 19 to date - it's going to change to 29. Frankly people need pops to remain interested and this alliance wargame bs has destroyed the bracket. So we'll focus on dominating 29 first.

That being said, not saying we're not moving forward with our plans for 19 - still plan on organizing some horde wargames once a few ppl transfer / finish toons. But there's absolutely no way that's a replacement for pops.

Friday there was a post for wsg pops. There was mass horde queueing but no pops - yet alliance had wargames so clearly had enough. This cancer is killing the bracket by causing people to look elsewhere and killing new player interest/development in its infancy.

 

[Cipe]

I think locating everyone to just one server and effectively killing queues for those who aren't on that server is a terrible idea. How will anyone new that's not on Bleeding Hollow get any exposure to 19 twinking? I know that Bleeding Hollow is regarded as the home of 19 twinks, but I feel like cutting out any new players to the bracket will only worse the situation we have now, unless everyone is cool with just playing 5v5 wargames within their relative social communities every night.

I think every twink should be on BH. I never saw a reason as to why people wouldn't roll 19s on BH. If you aren't on BH it is very easy to get into wargames if you have the right people on real id.

 

[Apnea]

I think every twink should be on BH. I never saw a reason as to why people wouldn't roll 19s on BH. If you aren't on BH it is very easy to get into wargames if you have the right people on real id.

This is literally the point that I just made in my statement lol:

unless everyone is cool with just playing 5v5 wargames within their relative social communities every night.

In an ideal world sure, it would be great if we were all on Bleeding Hollow. But that's not the case, and I think excluding everyone who might be new to the bracket or dusting off old 19s and aren't on Bleeding Hollow is a bad idea.

 

[Purj]

As I typically keep to myself randoms are what works best for me.

 

[Mocha]

I think every twink should be on BH. I never saw a reason as to why people wouldn't roll 19s on BH. If you aren't on BH it is very easy to get into wargames if you have the right people on real id.

The reasoning behind not being on BH is that our numbers are all on one realm meaning there is 0 exposure to other realms not connected with BH.


The thing about twinking is that people think it's been dead yada yada but I guarantee if you're on a random server with 3-4 other 19 twinks hopping around Org I guarantee you'll get a few people asking you questions about twinking saying they thought it wasn't dead and how they tried to queue and didn't get pops.

 

[Mocha]

post #2 (And I do appreciate seeing someone voice their passionate opinions)

This post is 100% accurate for the more competitive players. Especially the ones talking about how they are "sick" of level 10s, or "jajas".



However, this also kills any opportunity for players who aren't "in with the BH crew". As I've said in the past, the competitive gameplay should be held in Wargames and I agree with that. But we should ALL put that second to getting healthy PUGs and getting newer players involved. Moving to strictly wargames creates 0 possibility of growth as a community and shuns away players who aren't popular with the cool kids.


Even if you're on BH and good, you'll still have to find your own group because one of the people organizing the games may not like you. This results in exclusion on many levels, not only from this, but exclusion of newer players and older players who are returning.

In theory it would be AMAZING if all of us twinks were on BH playing wargames all day long together. Unfortunately, 19s are sooooooooo full of cliques and we're really not getting any new players from BH. Everybody transferred there. No one was really FROM BH. I don't see any indigenous BH players now all of a sudden deciding to make a 19. 19s have been huge on BH for a long time and if people were going to join 19s on BH with it being their home realm, they would have done so at some point before now.


Most new players that I encounter are on random realms that no one has ever even thought of. We should focus on growing in numbers as a community over favoriting competition. It's putting our own competitive desires aside for the health of the community.


I'd rather have a community of 250 twinks at many different skill levels playing PUGs all day than a group of 18 "elite" players who only play with themselves all day. With the amount of new players I've seen in PUGs on realms that I've never even thought of, I know for a fact that we can grow as a community in numbers if people would put their competitive desires aside and favor growth as a community. (Been saying this since 2011)


These are just my personal views backed by my passion for 19s.


Cheers,
Mocha

 

[Apnea]

I think every twink should be on BH. I never saw a reason as to why people wouldn't roll 19s on BH. If you aren't on BH it is very easy to get into wargames if you have the right people on real id.

This is literally the point that I just made in my statement lol:

unless everyone is cool with just playing 5v5 wargames within their relative social communities every night.

In an ideal world sure, it would be great if we were all on Bleeding Hollow. But that's not the case, and I think excluding everyone who might be new to the bracket or dusting off old 19s and aren't on Bleeding Hollow is a bad idea.

 

[Rusks]

having played in the alliance wargames and attempted to play as horde vs alliance for a wargame all i really have to say is you need to include horde teams (dodging us for whatever reason) and start scheduled wargame days so people can be included regardless of who is on their real ID.

maybe some sunday night 10v10s with a few teams make a thread have a sign up and pick leaders and have a draft of interested players or somthing like that or shuffle everyone so they play with new people. kinda like the f2ps do

 

[Faerondil]

elite" players who only play with themselves all day.

Cheers,
Mocha

Freudian slip? 19s in a nutshell?

Thanks Mocha, you made me smile despite being ill for the past week lol

 

[Healsatin]

I think mocha's pretty much spot on in regards to pugs. We need to keep pugs going in order to grow the community instead of limiting the bracket to 10-20 people as conq is suggesting. We already don't get pops, one faction wargaming itself only adds to this problem. Pugs are what keeps this bracket alive, you may not know this because you're new to the bracket but without them no one would ever log on their 19s. Not having pugs going all the time (or ever in this case) discourages people from trying to help get pugs to pop since waiting all night for a pop day after day with no success is severely discouraging to say the least and in my opinion is the major reason 19s are in a slump. If you want to keep the bracket alive we need ally to que pugs to at least get more 19s online so you can then work on setting up wargames not the other way around.

 

[Superstylin]

Don't say no to pugs. Pugs make the bracket grow

 

[Zatox]

So the plan of action is this;

Get scheduled game nights again. Eventually turns into more nights until it's every night.

Don't fall off the bandwagon this time. We need to put in the time for the bracket to have steady pops before 10 to 20 ppl decide it's time to do some wargames.

 

[Sponsor]

Just enjoy your twinks.

This bracket doesn't need to be something that requires insane organization with managers and employees. Do your War Games to pass time. Let it come night time, queue up for WSG.

I strongly disagree with the idea of everyone going to BH. First off, BH to me is tied to a negative connotation of having very immature and vulgar teenagers (although some prove me wrong). And like it was said before, you dont want to segregate a whole bracket into 1 realm... no more diversity, no more new comers. People will just simply be left out.

On the contrary, I would encourage people to do like what I saw a lot in Cata. The uprise of guilds on barely known realms (Aerie Peak, Elune, etc). It branches out the twinks, which allows more recruiting; more twinks!

 

[Srs]

I disagree 100%. We had pops nightly until wargames happened nightly in an effort to kill the pops.

This bracket is already low on people....every single battlegroup had multiple times the 19 twinks that are around in total now. Have to keep it going for new players and players not part of the cliques or else it won't happen. Some players don't even read this forum - they just queue. And a few nights of no pops means they move on to other things.

MYT is rebuilding to be both a 19 and 29 based guild like we always were (played 39/49 as well but those are quite inactive now, and we never had premades in that brackets back in the day). People have been asking me "what should me or my friend finish first - 19's or 29's? My answer has been 19 to date - it's going to change to 29. Frankly people need pops to remain interested and this alliance wargame bs has destroyed the bracket. So we'll focus on dominating 29 first.

That being said, not saying we're not moving forward with our plans for 19 - still plan on organizing some horde wargames once a few ppl transfer / finish toons. But there's absolutely no way that's a replacement for pops.

Friday there was a post for wsg pops. There was mass horde queueing but no pops - yet alliance had wargames so clearly had enough. This cancer is killing the bracket by causing people to look elsewhere and killing new player interest/development in its infancy.

Please don't tell your friends to go 20-29, if they are looking for competitive gameplay. Games are being determined pretty much solely by 29 to f2p ratio, and not much else. It's either a faceroll, or get facerolled. I haven't had one close game on a 29 to date.

If you can't keep people interested in 19s, you aren't going keep them interested in 29s, because competitive games are so few and far between for a 29. I mean, unless your friends are autistic. Also, depending on f2p jajas for your queues is a crutch. Many of the better f2ps have given up, or are scheduling wargames themselves, so the degree to which a random player on your team is going to sandbag you has gone up considerably. You will hardly ever find competitive games there as a 29s, unless you arrange them. And isn't that just the same thing as a wargame? And you could just as easily do at 19.

24s were the laughing stock of all other brackets until they merged them to 29s. Please, people, don't become part of the problem, and denigrating the names of twinks everywhere by making 29s the go-to bracket. 29s is for late night drunken twinking, and lols only. Please do not make the mistake of thinking you will make it competitive for 29s.

I'm rolling 19s because I'm sick of the state of 20-29 both from a f2p and 29 perspective. Games are just too much of a crapshoot of who's going to get the 5+ 29s and who's going to get the 5+ jaja hunters in dresses.

 

[MYT]

Please don't tell your friends to go 20-29, if they are looking for competitive gameplay. Games are being determined pretty much solely by 29 to f2p ratio, and not much else. It's either a faceroll, or get facerolled. I haven't had one close game on a 29 to date.

If you can't keep people interested in 19s, you aren't going keep them interested in 29s, because competitive games are so few and far between for a 29. I mean, unless your friends are autistic. Also, depending on f2p jajas for your queues is a crutch. Many of the better f2ps have given up, or are scheduling wargames themselves, so the degree to which a random player on your team is going to sandbag you has gone up considerably. You will hardly ever find competitive games there as a 29s, unless you arrange them. And isn't that just the same thing as a wargame? And you could just as easily do at 19.

24s were the laughing stock of all other brackets until they merged them to 29s. Please, people, don't become part of the problem, and denigrating the names of twinks everywhere by making 29s the go-to bracket. 29s is for late night drunken twinking, and lols only. Please do not make the mistake of thinking you will make it competitive for 29s.

I'm rolling 19s because I'm sick of the state of 20-29 both from a f2p and 29 perspective. Games are just too much of a crapshoot of who's going to get the 5+ 29s and who's going to get the 5+ jaja hunters in dresses.

Not giving up on 19, just going to do pugs in a bracket where pugs pop. Alliance killed 19 queues and continue to kill them. Not 100% of their players obviously but enough to care. Same DBs are now running premades in 29 that GY farm and grab flag and refuse to get 3rd cap. Going to get MYT premades and teach them something about how that feels.

If 19's pop we'll be there. I queue it all the time, particularly if someone calls out to queue a certain night. But recruiting a bunch of ppl to come to a bracket with absolutely no pugs and just ignore a bracket with pugs is a recipe for guild failure. I don't care about the F2P vs P2P drama. We're just going to queue and take care of these alliance premades I see every day I play 29.

 

[Kincaide]

Please don't tell your friends to go 20-29, if they are looking for competitive gameplay. Games are being determined pretty much solely by 29 to f2p ratio, and not much else. It's either a faceroll, or get facerolled. I haven't had one close game on a 29 to date.

If you can't keep people interested in 19s, you aren't going keep them interested in 29s, because competitive games are so few and far between for a 29. I mean, unless your friends are autistic. Also, depending on f2p jajas for your queues is a crutch. Many of the better f2ps have given up, or are scheduling wargames themselves, so the degree to which a random player on your team is going to sandbag you has gone up considerably. You will hardly ever find competitive games there as a 29s, unless you arrange them. And isn't that just the same thing as a wargame? And you could just as easily do at 19.

24s were the laughing stock of all other brackets until they merged them to 29s. Please, people, don't become part of the problem, and denigrating the names of twinks everywhere by making 29s the go-to bracket. 29s is for late night drunken twinking, and lols only. Please do not make the mistake of thinking you will make it competitive for 29s.

I'm rolling 19s because I'm sick of the state of 20-29 both from a f2p and 29 perspective. Games are just too much of a crapshoot of who's going to get the 5+ 29s and who's going to get the 5+ jaja hunters in dresses.

To add on to this, many of those F2Ps who are sick of the 20-29 imbalance are planning on playing 19s if veteran accounts make it possible, meaning that all of you should be seeing an influx of (what I believe to be) skilled quality players, as well as those former 19s who went to play 29s who will return when the competitiveness of that bracket completely dies, as well as all the old players who will come back now that they can play their 19s for free. I think the 19s bracket is going to see plenty of growth from that alone, and quality growth, not just new randoms coming into the scene.